Eibach lowered 07' G35X sedan - What alignment settings suggested?

[EKUHN]

I told my alignment shop that I wanted a "performance oriented" alignment within the manufacturers recommended ranges. They called "Hunter", the alignment equipment folks who suggested using the EX35 numbers as a baseline for lowered G35's.

What I got: FRONT -0.3 camber, 4.5 caster, 0.03 toe: REAR -1.6 camber, .13 toe

Do those numbers sound right?

[blacksrjdm]

I told my alignment shop that I wanted a "performance oriented" alignment within the manufacturers recommended ranges. They called "Hunter", the alignment equipment folks who suggested using the EX35 numbers as a baseline for lowered G35's.

What I got: FRONT -0.3 camber, 4.5 caster, 0.03 toe: REAR -1.6 camber, .13 toe

Do those numbers sound right?

If you have only lowered it and not added adjustable arms, then the alignment will consist of setting the toe, and not much else. Also, the EX35 is a truck/SUV. Why would an SUV be a baseline alignment settings for any car. A performance oriented alignment would need performance oriented suspension to adjust. If you have only added lowering springs, then the only thing to set with an alignment would be the toe and if you have adjustable front perches and rear upper control arms, then the camber can be set.

[pfarmer]

Also, the EX35 is a truck/SUV. Why would an SUV be a baseline alignment settings for any car.

Probably because it is based in several ways on the 'g' and both are AWD vehicles.

Perry

[blacksrjdm]

Probably because it is based in several ways on the 'g' and both are AWD vehicles.

Perry

Oh ok, I guess nevermind the fact that the suspension geometry on an SUV and a car are going to have completely different settings, and completely different suspension components? The stock suspension settings for an EX35 and G37X are going to be completely different.

Not to mention the ride height differences, that would automatically change the camber and caster settings. None of this makes any sense to me, but, I could be wrong too, wouldnt be the first time.

[EKUHN]

I have the Eibach adj front control arms, so camber/caster is adjustable, in addition to toe. No changes to rear adj capabilities.Regardless of their choice to use the EX35 (for whatever reason, since it escapes me) as some form of baseline, the end numbers they set me to are the numbers I'm currently at.So, I have a 1"+ lowered G35X sedan with Eibach ProKit springs, does anyone have any history with how that should be set-up?My intuition was that they should have just used the G35 sedan spec's and moved a bit towards the 'aggressive' end of the ranges. Doing that would have put me at -1.1 camber in front and -1.0 camber in the rear. Any help appreciated.

[blacksrjdm]

I have the Eibach adj front control arms, so camber/caster is adjustable, in addition to toe. No changes to rear adj capabilities.Regardless of their choice to use the EX35 (for whatever reason, since it escapes me) as some form of baseline, the end numbers they set me to are the numbers I'm currently at.So, I have a 1"+ lowered G35X sedan with Eibach ProKit springs, does anyone have any history with how that should be set-up?My intuition was that they should have just used the G35 sedan spec's and moved a bit towards the 'aggressive' end of the ranges. Doing that would have put me at -1.1 camber in front and -1.0 camber in the rear. Any help appreciated.

Honestly the best place to get that done is at a performance shop where they might set up or align more performance oriented cars. Most alignment places know how to set the toe and sometimes the camber, but in most cases they arent aware of what a performance alignment would be.

If you daily the car, then just get it set as close to factory specs as possible. If you use the car more on the track, depending on what kind of track you will be on, you will want to set it up differently. If you are aligning it to have a more performance feel on the street, then set it up as clost to stock as possible, that way your tires still wear evenly. With too much negative camber the tires will wear on the inside, with the toe in or out will chop up the tread on the tires. I know alignments, and I am pretty sure that I wouldnt set up a lowered car to the specs of a factory suspension higher ground clearance SUV.

As far as a performance oriented alignment is concerned though, you have some of the parts, the parts are the performance, and the alignment is to make sure that the tires arent gonna get chewed up in 15 minutes.

[pfarmer]

Oh ok, I guess nevermind the fact that the suspension geometry on an SUV and a car are going to have completely different settings, and completely different suspension components? The stock suspension settings for an EX35 and G37X are going to be completely different.

Not to mention the ride height differences, that would automatically change the camber and caster settings. None of this makes any sense to me, but, I could be wrong too, wouldnt be the first time.

Note that correct or not as far as the recommendation the recommendation probably comes from the points I mentioned and are baseline, not final positions. As far as the EX35 being an SUV, in reality I really don't see it as much different than a PT cruiser being based on a Neon. This really isn't that far from the truth.

The question should be more along the lines of why would you use the EX35 rear settings. While the front is pretty much directly derived from the G35 the rear is not.

Perry

[blacksrjdm]

Note that correct or not as far as the recommendation the recommendation probably comes from the points I mentioned and are baseline, not final positions. As far as the EX35 being an SUV, in reality I really don't see it as much different than a PT cruiser being based on a Neon. This really isn't that far from the truth.

The question should be more along the lines of why would you use the EX35 rear settings. While the front is pretty much directly derived from the G35 the rear is not.

Perry

I dont understand where you are coming from here. A PT Cruiser, is exactly a Neon, with a different shape, the suspension components are not only similar, but they can be swapped from one car to another. An EX35 which is an AWD SUV, is built on a 100% different platform than a G35X, which is an AWD 4 door car.

An EX35 is based on a completely different platform all together. Both vehicles may have Macpherson strut front suspension, but all the settings will be different than most other models.

If I were to align this car for you, I would set the camber maybe -.2 camber further than factory specs, and set the toe and caster to factory specs of the G37X. There is no reason to use the specs of any other vehice other than the vehicle you are aligning. I am Hunter certified, and I align alot of cars for drifting. Mostly 240sx's. I set them up as factory 240sx's, then adjust the camber depending on how the car is acting, adjust the caster slightly for more or less angle, and toe I always try to set at 0.

Normally, what a person is looking for is that little bit of understeer you get from lowering the car and that comes from the slight bit of neg. camber.

Good luck, I have said my piece.
Modified by blacksrjdm at 12:23 PM 6/11/2009

[pfarmer]

I dont understand where you are coming from here. A PT Cruiser, is exactly a Neon, with a different shape, the suspension components are not only similar, but they can be swapped from one car to another. An EX35 which is an AWD SUV, is built on a 100% different platform than a G35X, which is an AWD 4 door car.

An EX35 is based on a completely different platform all together. Both vehicles may have Macpherson strut front suspension, but all the settings will be different than most other models.

If I were to align this car for you, I would set the camber maybe -.2 camber further than factory specs, and set the toe and caster to factory specs of the G37X. There is no reason to use the specs of any other vehice other than the vehicle you are aligning. I am Hunter certified, and I align alot of cars for drifting. Mostly 240sx's. I set them up as factory 240sx's, then adjust the camber depending on how the car is acting, adjust the caster slightly for more or less angle, and toe I always try to set at 0.

Normally, what a person is looking for is that little bit of understeer you get from lowering the car and that comes from the slight bit of neg. camber.

Good luck, I have said my piece.

Modified by blacksrjdm at 12:23 PM 6/11/2009

You are correct which is why I mentioned the PT Cruizer/Neon combo. The front suspension is heavily derived from the G35 with the rear heavily derived from the FX (which is why I stated a lack in logic for selecting of settings front and back for a baseline). The EX35 may be called an SUV but in reality it is closer to that of a car and that car being a G35. The ride height was mentioned but it is 1.2 inches higher with about 1/2 inch of that coming from the tires.

As far as a performance orientated suspension tune for a lowered X I certainly would not tune it as a drifter.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I have the Eibach adj front control arms, so camber/caster is adjustable, in addition to toe. No changes to rear adj capabilities.Regardless of their choice to use the EX35 (for whatever reason, since it escapes me) as some form of baseline, the end numbers they set me to are the numbers I'm currently at.So, I have a 1"+ lowered G35X sedan with Eibach ProKit springs, does anyone have any history with how that should be set-up?My intuition was that they should have just used the G35 sedan spec's and moved a bit towards the 'aggressive' end of the ranges. Doing that would have put me at -1.1 camber in front and -1.0 camber in the rear. Any help appreciated.

So what was the end result of the setup you got? How does it handle in your driving situations?

Perry

[blacksrjdm]

You are correct which is why I mentioned the PT Cruizer/Neon combo. The front suspension is heavily derived from the G35 with the rear heavily derived from the FX (which is why I stated a lack in logic for selecting of settings front and back for a baseline). The EX35 may be called an SUV but in reality it is closer to that of a car and that car being a G35. The ride height was mentioned but it is 1.2 inches higher with about 1/2 inch of that coming from the tires.

As far as a performance orientated suspension tune for a lowered X I certainly would not tune it as a drifter.

Perry

Fail completely. Obviously you havent read here.

Neon/PT Cruiser...Same chassis, Same exact suspension components, same platform, same brakes, rotors, spindles, upper, lower arms, etc..

G35X/EX35... Not the same platform, not the same chassis, The suspension components are different and cannot be swapped from vehicle to vehicle.

Also, the suspension on the EX35 is more derived from the earlier crossover SUV's such as the Murano and FX35. The crossover SUV is supposed to be a mix of a car ride and feel with the capabilities of an SUV. Now take a G35x in the woods and climb a bumpy hill and tell me that the suspension on an EX35 is gonna act even similar to the G35x's. The geometry of the G35's suspension is built to articulate alot less than an SUV. But, I suppose you are sure your right and havent used much logic so far. Especially since you have implied that I was telling him to get it aligned for drifting. No where in my last post did I even insinuate that a drifting alignment would help, although, a drifting alignment isnt that far from any other alignment. It would be set up for a base alignment anyway, and changed according to the drivers feedback.

pfarmer, have you ever aligned a vehicle, worked on a car more than changing oil or spark plugs? Your posts seem to be very ignorent to facts, the points you are making have very little thought and knowledge involved. I am making my points from personal experience from aligning a hell of a lot more cars than just drift cars. I have set up suspensions for dirt track cars, autoX cars, etc...

[pfarmer]

Fail completely. Obviously you havent read here.

Neon/PT Cruiser...Same chassis, Same exact suspension components, same platform, same brakes, rotors, spindles, upper, lower arms, etc..

G35X/EX35... Not the same platform, not the same chassis, The suspension components are different and cannot be swapped from vehicle to vehicle.

Also, the suspension on the EX35 is more derived from the earlier crossover SUV's such as the Murano and FX35. The crossover SUV is supposed to be a mix of a car ride and feel with the capabilities of an SUV. Now take a G35x in the woods and climb a bumpy hill and tell me that the suspension on an EX35 is gonna act even similar to the G35x's. The geometry of the G35's suspension is built to articulate alot less than an SUV. But, I suppose you are sure your right and havent used much logic so far. Especially since you have implied that I was telling him to get it aligned for drifting. No where in my last post did I even insinuate that a drifting alignment would help, although, a drifting alignment isnt that far from any other alignment. It would be set up for a base alignment anyway, and changed according to the drivers feedback.

pfarmer, have you ever aligned a vehicle, worked on a car more than changing oil or spark plugs? Your posts seem to be very ignorent to facts, the points you are making have very little thought and knowledge involved. I am making my points from personal experience from aligning a hell of a lot more cars than just drift cars. I have set up suspensions for dirt track cars, autoX cars, etc...

I have over 40 years working on cars in all facets. The EX35 is not your typical SUV. As stated earlier I am not stating it is the correct machine to use as a baseline but that the logic for using it sits in the fact that the design of its front suspension was largely lifted from the G35 and its rear from the FX. Typically when a manufacturer of equipment such as the Hunter makes a recommendation for a modified vehicle it comes from the fact they really do not have baseline information for the target configuration and someone picks what they think would be similar. In this case maybe the wrong choice but it does have some logic behind it.

The EX35 has 3 square feet of extra room for luggage over a G35x, has similar cabin space, weighs close to the same and was purposely set up to handle more like a car than an SUV. Neither the G35X or EX35 is really designed to be a Jeep type of vehicle in the woods. Simply being made to look like an SUV doesn't make it an SUV except in name only. The term SUV really doesn't have anymore definition than sport luxury. It can mean almost anything from a vehicle setup for 100% travel on the Rubicon to 100% travel on city streets by soccer moms.

As far as setup, of course you set to a baseline and then fine tune from there. In this case we really don't know if the purpose of the lowering was for Pikes Peak hill climbing, to track the vehicle on a left hand turn dirt track, or to simply look cool driving around town. Therefore making a recommendation for settings is not based on any logic at all since logic needs data to be valid logic.

Perry

[EKUHN]

Perry - Thanks for your responses. The intended usage is daily driver, followed by intermittent autocross and low aggression track days, no drifting. Your points are well taken and understood. I also tend to agree with 'blacksrjdm' with regard to not understanding why they didn't just keep it simple by staying close to G35X stock numbers with perhaps a dash of more neg camber fr/rr to account for more 'spirited' driving uses. There's way to much toe-in and camber in the rear just now in my opinion, to be sustained long term. So, it looks like another alignment is needed.Thanks all.

[pfarmer]

Perry - Thanks for your responses. The intended usage is daily driver, followed by intermittent autocross and low aggression track days, no drifting. Your points are well taken and understood. I also tend to agree with 'blacksrjdm' with regard to not understanding why they didn't just keep it simple by staying close to G35X stock numbers with perhaps a dash of more neg camber fr/rr to account for more 'spirited' driving uses. There's way to much toe-in and camber in the rear just now in my opinion, to be sustained long term. So, it looks like another alignment is needed.Thanks all.

I haven't heard of someone doing this to an EX35, but are the numbers given actualy 'STOCK' EX35 numbers or modified? The EX sits about 2 inches wider and about 1 inch higher (the tires make up about 1/2 inch for 1 1/2 inch total).

Perry