Easier to Pull 98 Q45 Engine and Trans Together?

[tfvesquire]

Okay, I have come to the realization I should just keep my mouth closed whenever I am successful in solving a problem or repairing something on my car. I posted several threads this year dealing with my pesky lifter tick, suspension noises, electrical problems and even looking for replacement parts. I was fortunate enough to solve all those problems and each time I posted my results, something else, usually more troubling and/or expensive arose. My lifter tick is a lot less noticeable and hopefully the Auto-rx will clean the rest of things in the HLAs and make my engine sound completely normal again. The rear suspension squeak in the subframe was cured with a dab of bearing grease on the bushing. Even the annoying shift control lock clicking finally when away with a thorough cleaning of my ignition switch.

I was fully prepared to ride out the remaining few days left in the 2010 year from hell with no additional car issues, when BAM!! Last Saturday, my transmission would not shift to 3rd or 4th gear. The only issue I had with the trans during the time I owned this car was about a month ago, I had a minor hesitation starting off from a light, usually after driving the car on the highway. It was only once or twice during that month so I checked the fluid and looked and smelled fine. Since I was doing the Auto-rx treatment in the engine, I decided to do a treatment in the trans with the goal of draining the fluid and dropping the pan/filter in about 2-300 miles. Everything seemed to go smoothly -- I did not get another hesitation like before until I was coming home from the city. No CELs, no flashing O/D light, nothing. I pulled a ghost code of 0744 (torque converter clutch intermittent circuit) so I decided to drain the fluid and refill with fresh fluid. Drove the car and still same symtoms. Dropped it off to a "reputable" trans repair place and after two days, the owner tells me I have to do a complete rebuild at teh tune of $1800-2400 depending on what they find out once it's opened up. I asked if they dropped the pan and he said they did not get a chance to do that/ I said, how can you tell me what's wrong or if an internal part can be fixed if you don't do that? He said they didn't get a chance to do that, but they would od it this morning and let me know -- but from what they could tell, it needs a complete rebuild. At this point, I still ove my car and don't want to part with unless it simply becomes too cost prohibitive to keep fixing it.

So, here I am with a dilemma: put in a rebuilt trans for over $2K in a car that is worth maybe $6K on a good day, especially in this market or purchase a used unit with low miles and warranty and have a shop install it or buy and used unit and be crazy enough to attempt to install it myself. As one can imagine, I ruled out the first option because it doesn't make sense to do that when there are other things that need attention in the car. The second option is tempting, but since the car is going on 13 yrs old and there are brittle wiring harness plugs and rusted exhaust pieces that would have to removed, can I trust a company to successfully remove my old one and install the replacement unit without any electrical and/or exhaust issues?

So that brings me to my third option: pull the trans out myself and install the replacement unit. My question to all who have actually pulled an engine and/or trans out of a FGY33 model, is it easier to remove just the trans (knowing you have to pull the exhaust and wrestle the trans while lying on your back in the garage to get it out and then wrestle again to reinstall everything? Or, it is easier to leave the exhaust pipes alone, disconnect them from the headers/manifolds, drain the radiator and condensor, disconnect the PS pump from the engine and tie it out of the way and just pull everything in one shot? I have floor jack with a transmision adapter, so that is no problem. I also have a 3 ton cherry picker. The hood comes right off and from what I can tell, pulling it shouldn't be that hard, but I would prefer to hear from members who have actually done this. It may be a case where the engine and trans bolted together are too heavy and clumsy for one person to attempt this be them selves. Or maybe it's not too bad because both a cast aluminuim units. I have pulled many cast iron SBC engines and they can be a real pain to swing in and out of the car.

I can't believe I am dealing with this on top of all the crap I've repaired this year. It could have waiting 2 more weeks and we would at least be into 2011's budget. I guess there is no good time for this kind of issue to sprout up. Please let me know because I will be picking my car up from the shop this evening and setting a game plan of what to do next. So far, I have located a trans from a 1999 with 52K miles and a 2000 with 65K on it. I assume either one would fit exactly with no
plug or electrical problems. Please confirm that info as well.
Ted, Chicago

[Haloman]

I have no Idea but I dont know a whole lot about cars. Nobody will answer my post so I was wondering if maybe you could tell me where is the starter located on your engine? I have a 95 q45 but I think Yours may be in the same spot.

[tfvesquire]

Since you only have 4 posts, I will make the sugestion that you download the factory service manual (FSM) and it will tell you. Normally, the starter is located where the engine and transmission meet, so start there. You engine is different that mine, but should be in the same general location. You will have to remove a few things to get access to it.

[Haloman]

Yep you were rite. Mine is on the bottom right side where the transmission and motor meat. thanks man.

[djwarner]

Q45ness had exactly the same problem in a thread awhile back. Unfortunately, he tried a third route, to repair the transmission. Worth a read:

1994-q45-will-not-shift-into-3rd-or-4th ... 09736.html

[tfvesquire]

Thanks for the link and info. I read that post and a few others while I was waiting for the diagnosis and unfortunately, I did not want to go through all the mess and hassle, only to experience the exact same issues as the original poster. That would be all I could bear. I am leaning toward just installing a trans with at least a 90 warranty, dropping the pan and replacing the filter and fluid before installing it. I located several shops that will do a simple trans swap, but they will not take the time to carefully remove everything and I will be given back my car with potentially other problems I did not have before (CELs, leaking exhaust, missing bolts/clips, etc.).

I am still waiting to hear back from the shop that was supposed to drop the pan and tell me what they found out. Will post what I find out. Still hoping someone who has pulled the engine and trans can respond back.

Ted

[tfvesquire]

Okay, since no one responded with their experiences on pulling this engine or trans (good news for all of you out there!!) I have decided to purchase the used trans from a 1999 Q with only 52K miles on it for only $400 plus tax and core. It comes with a 3 1/2 month warranty and the trans shop where my car is presently at will swap it in for only $450 and keep my core to the side in the event I have to exercise the warranty. They will inspect the replacement unit by dropping the pan and bench testing it to confirm it's condition and if everything checks out fine, then fill it with fresh fluid and install it. I am hopeful I have better luck with the newer unit and with some routine maintenance it will last a long time. Still really pissed at the prior owner for the unnecessary abuse of this fine automobile. Just makes me want to get it my car and drive down to them (I have her address from the title) and cuss her out just for the principle. Too bad I'm an attorney and can't say I didn't know better.

I will not be posting a "follow up" on this project since that seems to be the kiss of death for me lately. However, check back with me on this in about a year and if I still haven't had any problems I will call it successfully repaired!!!

Take care all and have a great holiday.

Ted

[maxnix]

Another transmission malfunction post (from a knowledgeable poster this time) that makes no mention of the ATF color nor its condition. Does no one know what the white paper towel test is anymore?

There is a huge difference between a 52K AT with two exchanges while running an auxiliary ATF cooler and a 52K AT taht has never been touched.

Don't know what current prices from Joe are, but in the past it has proven much less expensive in the long run to replace the AT with a Nissan remanufactured one than rebuild locally or install someone else's problem (a used AT). Regardless, AT are expensive, but the Nissan tend to be thousands less than competitive marque's multi-speed AT.

Dropping the exhaust and drive shaft will allow you the transmission to be dropped provided you have a lift, the 3' extension to get the top bolt, an AT jack and some strong friends at critical moments.

Good luck!

[tfvesquire]

[quote="maxnix"]Another transmission malfunction post (from a knowledgeable poster this time) that makes no mention of the ATF color nor its condition. Does no one know what the white paper towel test is anymore?

There is a huge difference between a 52K AT with two exchanges while running an auxiliary ATF cooler and a 52K AT taht has never been touched.

**************************

I stated that I checked the fluid prior to doing a drain and refill and it "looked and smelled fine to me" (ie: reddish, not brown/black and smelled like normal trans fluid, not old or burnt. I wiped off the dipstick sample on a clean white rag and there was no trash in it, just fluid. Like I stated, I cannot fathom possibly spending $2K+ for a shop to completely rebuild my unit when I have the chance to purchase a really low mileage unit that was exceptionally clean and from a clean-looking 1999 that was unfortunately t-boned in the rear door. The exterior, interior undercarraige (sp?)and engine bay looked so clean and untouched I was really impressed.

I agree I am taking a chance having the shop check this replacement unit out and install it, but for under $1K for everything, I think it is well worth the gamble. Especially considering my recent streak of "luck" with this car. Since I have experienced a trans failure even though I do not beat on my car, I will be looking into installing a separate trans cooler since I know there are several decent write-ups. If there is a write-up that you or anyone else recommends, please send me the link.

Ted

[djwarner]

Out of curiosity, have you pulled the codes?

[tfvesquire]

Besides the initial "ghost code" of 0744, there were no other codes thrown. I just made teh executive decision to replace the entire unit rather than have the shop start pulling things out at X amount and then when they get too far into it to justify putting evertything back together, they will tell me it needs a complete rebuild and I will be forced to have them rebuild it at whatever the final cost ends up being.

[elwesso]

I agree with your choice of getting a used trans. Usually rebuilds dont go well, even when done by a "reputable shop".. not sure what it is about the Q trans, but they usually dont rebuild well unless its done by nissan..

Main thing to remember about used transmissions is that usually the most important factor is how long they sat. Because the fluid cannot be drained totally, if they sit for a long time the fluid will start to eat the insides of the trans..

[tfvesquire]

I just picked up the replacement transmission and dropped it off to the shop. Besides looking a little dusty, everything appeared to be fine. The proof in the pudding will be once the shop drops the pan and checks out the internals to make sure there is no trash in the pan and no corrosion. Keeping my fingers crossed until I hear back from them Monday or Tuesday. I miss my car!!!

[maxnix]

Do install an auxiliary cooler if you haven't already.

[BCC93QT]

Well, i have only replaced ONE transmission but I have pulled several engines including 2 out of the G50 Q's. Honestly, i think its easier to drop most engines (atleast imports) with the transmission attached. Not fun unbolting it from underneath. Gotta do a few weeks at the gym to get them arms ready before you drop just the transmission. It takes almost the same amount of time (for me) to drop an engine with the transmission attached than to do the transmission itself. Plus while the engine is out you can do a thorough cleaning and an inspection of various hoses and what not. Yes there is more involved like removing the radiator, vacuum and air flow systems, sensors various cables and what not. I myself would suggest to drop them both together, but whatever route you take good luck!

[elwesso]

I tend to agree with this if you have the means. Not to mention replacing the valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, oil pan seals, front and rear main seals will be a SNAP compared to trying to do it with the engine in the car.

[tfvesquire]

Well, the transplant was successful and I picked up the car last Friday. All I can say is that it shifts properly, there are no flashing lights and no leaks - end of story. Per my first post, I will only provide a detailed update after the warranty period is complete. I am planning on installing the trans cooler when it gets a little warmer here.

Hope eveyone had a nice New Years Eve.

Ted

[BCC93QT]

So did YOU do it yourself? Or was it a shop? Any pics of the swap? If a shop did the swap/work would you recommend them to others? How much was the charge? What kind of warranty did they give you? Anything feel wrong or iffy with the car? Did they tell you EXACTLY what they replaced on the car on a writeup? Also where they got the parts and how much? What did they find that you didn't find when they were under there (if anything)? All and any info is very useful!

[tfvesquire]

So did YOU do it yourself? Or was it a shop? Any pics of the swap? If a shop did the swap/work would you recommend them to others? How much was the charge? What kind of warranty did they give you? Anything feel wrong or iffy with the car? Did they tell you EXACTLY what they replaced on the car on a writeup? Also where they got the parts and how much? What did they find that you didn't find when they were under there (if anything)? All and any info is very useful!

I elected to have a professional shop do the trans swap (Atomic Transmission in Villa Park, IL). They came highly recommended by a few shops in town and I think they did a fine job, just took a litle longer than I expected. That could have been due to the holiday as well..

The cost for the used transmission with only 52K on it was $488.00 including tax and core charge. It came with a 3 1/2 month unlimited mile warranty.

The cost for the swap was $450,00 labor plus plan drop, new filter and fluid for $45.00. For under a grand, I thought it was the best option.

From what I was told, the pan drop on the old unit revealed some metal "pieces" not just shavings, but I didn't want to pay them to start tearing into that unit only to end up having to rebuild it, so I went the "used unit with a warranty" route. Like I posted above, I don't want to jinx myself by providing more details until at least the warranty period is come and gone. Call me superstitious, but with my track record in 2010 one can understand my hesitation.

Now, it's on to fixing my dreaded lifter tick which Auto-Rx has not cured -- see my other post. I just responded to another member's suggestions on that post.....

[BCC93QT]

Congrats i think that is a VERY fair price. Glad to see your happy with the results. I hope the new transmission lasts. On to suspension!