Early Indicator?

[Haitian_King]

I just have a quick question about the Fuel Pump issue.

An unforeseen event warranted an impromptu trip to Philadelphia this morning. My Q's tank was just a little below 1/2 full (or empty, depending on your personal philosophy). I had originally planned on filling up on Thursday as it would have made it one week exactly since the last fill-up, but as I intensely dislike leaving the state with anything less than a full tank, I filled up this morning with 93.

After filling up, I detected a noticeable change in performance. While my car wasn't running badly before, it ran MUCH better. Whisper quiet idle, outstanding throttle response, and a sense of unlimited power. I felt as if I could accelerate forever.

Shifts were much nicer as well. For a while now, my 1-2 shift was a real drink spiller. (Good thing eating and drinking are prohibited in my car) Today, it was very smooth.

What would be the cause of these changes? It seems that the car's behavior changes in proportion to the amount of fuel I have in the tank. Could this be an early indicator of a fuel pump on it's way out? I check constantly for the beehive, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm thinking maybe the fuel level affects the pump's performance?

Anyone?

I'll be seeing Keith Van Meter on Thursday fro an oil change and checkup, but I'm just curious on what the issue is and on how to explain it to him.

Any help will be appreciated.

[Q45tech]

Probably not, just shows the differences in fuel composition. Remember the sticker says may contain not must contain ethanol...............and it doesn't say anything about the other 200 chemicals in gasoline or their concentration.

Again only* a PSI underload pressure test can tell you what's happening with fuel pump.

*measuring the rpm of fuel pump can tell you a lot about the age and wear of the pump as long as you correct for fuel viscosity, fuel filter back presssure, and temperature.

[Haitian_King]

Thank you. I'm assuming that it may be almost time to replace the pump and inspect the FPCU. I'm at 95,100 miles now.

I'll have Keith check it out and give me an expert's opinion on the condition of the pump.

[oldmako]

Good gas, bad gas.

I have refueled twice in the last 6 months and gotten immediate results from different gas. Both times the car ran mo' worser. The change was evident within 2 minutes of refueling. I only notice it at idle, but the car will occasionally misfire with the crummy gas. It runs fine at WFO, but has a def stumble on the lousy gas. Last time it was Amoco fuel.

[Q45tech]

"by 2001 BP announced that all Amoco service stations would either be closed or renamed to BP service stations. However, BP rebranded its gas as "Amoco Fuels", including "Amoco Ultimate". By 2008, the "Amoco Fuels" brand had been mostly discontinued in favor of "BP Gasoline with Invigorate", but the "Amoco Ultimate" name remains on the company's highest octane gasoline.

Few BP stations continue operation under the name Amoco, however, most were either converted to BP, some Amoco-style stations were demolished and replaced with BP-style stations, abandoned, or switched to competitor brands.' .......................from wiki

Don't confuse the name on the station with who or which refinery made the gasoline and which tank farm blended the crud and added the drops of marketing goop.

Pretty useless to name a station by Marketing Brand

[Haitian_King]

Thanks. I don't think Gulf was on that list of Tier 1 fuel, but that one Gulf station I go to does great things.

[Haitian_King]

"by 2001 BP announced that all Amoco service stations would either be closed or renamed to BP service stations. However, BP rebranded its gas as "Amoco Fuels", including "Amoco Ultimate". By 2008, the "Amoco Fuels" brand had been mostly discontinued in favor of "BP Gasoline with Invigorate", but the "Amoco Ultimate" name remains on the company's highest octane gasoline.

Few BP stations continue operation under the name Amoco, however, most were either converted to BP, some Amoco-style stations were demolished and replaced with BP-style stations, abandoned, or switched to competitor brands.' .......................from wiki

Don't confuse the name on the station with who or which refinery made the gasoline and which tank farm blended the crud and added the drops of marketing goop.

Pretty useless to name a station by Marketing Brand

Well, how do you know what's what? Is it possible that I'm getting great gas now from the Gulf, but 6 months from now, they could change suppliers and then I end up with crap?

I just want to find something good and stick with it.

I've never had any issues with the Shell V-Power. (except for the one time I told the attendant to fill up and my needle wasn't past the F.)

[Q45tech]

My first oem pump lasted 176k, the 2nd lasted 35k [some really bad gasoline purchased out of state], The 3rd pump now has 108k.

Looking at the current waveform [amperes] tells the tale as you can SEE the condition of each of the 8 commutaors.

http://autolabscopediagnostics.com/fuelpump.htm

[Q45tech]

Still see I'm not making the point CLEAR ENOUGH The name of [posted on] the gasoline station is totally immaterial to the gasoline you get!..............the only thing that counts is which refinery and which day batch.

The marketing additive is added in such minute quantities that it won't affect the engine operation other than the cleanliness and that takes hundreds of miles to change.

Obviously the amount of rain water in the stations tanks can make a difference but that is supposed to be tested prior to the tanker dumping its load [unless bribery or SLOTH is involved].

What counts is fuel turnover rates. As the fuel may be 2-3 weeks old before it gets to station tank and how long it sits exposed and reacting with station tank water.

A busy superstation on a busy local highway is always best bet.............except near state lines where they depend on transit out of state motorists not coming back with complaints.

[Haitian_King]

Gotcha. Some of the locations found on local busy highways were recently implicated in a state wide gas scandal. Price gouging, filling all tanks with 87 and selling it as 93.

I don't know which location to trust.

Perhaps if I tried some stations on the NJ Turnpike, maybe an exit or two away I could get some sort of reliability. But the costs will begin to outweigh my perceived benefits with tolls and much higher gas prices.

I prefer to gamble with cards and chips. Not the functionality of my car.

If I'd paid more attention during chem, maybe I'd be farther down the road of homebrew gasoline.

[96Qowner]

Two issues with the gas - the quality of the gas itself, and detergent additives.

You're stuck with whatever gas is being delivered from the tank farm, and you can't rely on a station or a brand. But you can probably count on what Dennis calls the minute amounts of additives that a brand like Chevron adds.

Top Tier has certain requirements for additives, but doesn't make any guarantees about the quality of the gas itself.

Why TOP TIER

The intention of the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards is to create a winning situation for gasoline retailers, auto manufacturers and drivers. Currently, many gasoline retailers provide fuels with lower-quality additive packages that can build up deposits on fuel injectors and on intake valves. Others can build up deposits in combustion chambers and may lead to intake valve sticking. These lower levels of additives can have negative impacts on engine performance and vehicle responsiveness.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

[maxnix]

Thanks. I don't think Gulf was on that list of Tier 1 fuel, but that one Gulf station I go to does great things.

Chevron bought Gulf about a decade ago, so it should be Tier 1 like Texaco.

I haven't seen a Gulf station in 8 years.

[Q45tech]

In theory the gasoline pipeline owners have certain minimum specifications for gasoline they transport as certain defects can damage their pumps and valves and sensors. The way around this is to tanker to East coast plus Florida, and California

In coastal areas you have the added risk of imported foreign gasoline from Europe and India............sell us their junk and failed quality at a discount so we can sell it to US suckers.Since we have not built new refineries because of gov regs we deserve to be punished

Chick on Company Level Imports Open the xls up and it shows which US compaies imported what from where and took delivery at US Port in June 08.http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas....html

Tell me you are not scared now!

If you live 150 miles away from a coastal port you can be pretty sure the gasoline at least meet pipeline standards..........better than nothing.

[yodawill2000]

Yikes !!!

[Haitian_King]

Chevron bought Gulf about a decade ago, so it should be Tier 1 like Texaco.

I haven't seen a Gulf station in 8 years.

I think the location was previously a BP.

[qship96]

Am I gathering that one should just purchase the cheapest premium fuel from any station that is busy, regardless of brand....and use injector cleaner periodically?????? We have a station here called Free State where premium fuel is $3.55/gal today and all the brand name stations premium is $3.85+ / gallon today

[maxnix]

Certainly can if you are certain there are no other contaminants in the gasoline. I bet even BG44K would work.

[qship96]

I bet even BG44K would work.

Thats Funny Brian

[StarPD]

HK, there is also one other issue you should be aware of. That is that some cars seem to have a mind of their own. I've had more than one car that inexplicably ran great sometimes, and not so great other times, often changing after a shutdown and subsequent restart. In most cases, endless hours of diagnosing by myself and factory mechanics turned up nothing wrong. Damfino what caused it. Never did find out what the problem was.

One car, a '67 Corvette 425 HP 427 bought new, wouldn't start under 30 degrees ambient without a jump and ether, and ran hot when ambient was over 75 degrees. Neither myself nor the dealer could ever figure it out, and we replaced the radiator, hoses, water pump, thermostat, belts and idlers. Checked compression and cooling system for signs of cracked/leaking heads, replaced the carb, complete ignition system including wires and plugs (several times), FP, and drained and cleaned the fuel tank. We even checked lift and duration of each cam lobe as well as cam timing, and exhaust flow. Nothing helped. Car started and ran great between 30 and 75 degrees, but not above or below.Traded it after a year of that.

I think Stephen King had a car like that when he wrote "Christine".

[Haitian_King]

Wow.

I just filled up last night and the car was phenomenal. Driving to work this morning was a blast too.

I guess it's just one of those things.

BTW, I found out where the ATF leak was coming from. Shame on me for not getting the stuff from Joe for the pan drop. The mechanic who shall remained unnamed had one come from NAPA (or somewhere). Keith told me that the gasket was leaking because it wasn't an OEM lead and asbestos one. (Sounds all sorts of hazardous, no?) So he said I should just keep an eye on my ATF levels and that the small leak isn't a major cause for concern.

[maxnix]

Shame on me for not getting the stuff from Joe for the pan drop. The mechanic who shall remained unnamed had one come from NAPA (or somewhere). Keith told me that the gasket was leaking because it wasn't an OEM lead and asbestos one.

Yeah, it's a tough lesson for many ex Detroit pig iron owners to understand the Nissan OEM stuff is made for Nissans, and most else is an approximation. This applies to the unique systems associated with Q45 engines and transmissions in particular. The three main reasons I have the Q45 is Dennis, Joe and the FSM & TSB documentation.
Modified by maxnix at 8:00 PM 8/22/2008

[Haitian_King]

Yeah, it's a tough lesson for many ex Detroit pig iron owners to understand the Nissan OEM stuff is made for Nissans, and most else is an approximation. This applies to the unique systems associated with Q45 engins and trnasmissions in particular. The three main reasons I have the Q45 is Dennis, Joe and the FSM & TSB documentation.

Yeah. I had my pan drop way back in 2007 before I knew better. I only go OEM now.

[Q45tech]

Independents like T3 could make a ton of extra cash [extra profit] each month [probably close to $5,000 at each shop] if only they would sell chain store and other low quality copy substitute parts.

A few rare companies have ethics, most do not - to stay in business.