E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread
Re: (WDRacing)
Hey Tom I can close you up :-p OOOOOOO. Now stop ruining my E85 Thread.
Re: (S13FX)
hey now i'm the one attempting to start this thread up againS13FX wrote:Hey Tom I can close you up :-p OOOOOOO. Now stop ruining my E85 Thread.
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extreme135
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Has anybody looked into running tap water into hydrogen to run your car, I have been researching this some, a guy actually invented this in the phillipines, and it actually seems pretty self explanitory on how it works, especially after you watch this video, I know its not E85, just tap water.Here is an ad from a phillipine newspaper
Water-Powered Car For more than three decades now, Daniel Dingel has been claiming that his car can run with water as fuel. An article from the Philippine Daily Inquirer said that Dingle built his engine as early as 1969. Dingel built a car reactor that uses electricity from a 12-volt car battery to split the ordinary tap water into hydrogen and oxygen components. The hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Dingel said that a number of foreign car companies have expressed interest in his invention. The officials of the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) have dismissed Dingel's water-powered car as a hoax. In return, Dingel accused them of conspiring with oil producing countries. Dingel, however, was the not the only man on earth who is testing water as an alternative fuel. American inventors Rudolf Gunnerman and Stanley Meyer and the researchers of the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory have been pursuing similar experiments.Video explaining ithttp://video.google.com/videop...35391
Water-Powered Car For more than three decades now, Daniel Dingel has been claiming that his car can run with water as fuel. An article from the Philippine Daily Inquirer said that Dingle built his engine as early as 1969. Dingel built a car reactor that uses electricity from a 12-volt car battery to split the ordinary tap water into hydrogen and oxygen components. The hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Dingel said that a number of foreign car companies have expressed interest in his invention. The officials of the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) have dismissed Dingel's water-powered car as a hoax. In return, Dingel accused them of conspiring with oil producing countries. Dingel, however, was the not the only man on earth who is testing water as an alternative fuel. American inventors Rudolf Gunnerman and Stanley Meyer and the researchers of the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory have been pursuing similar experiments.Video explaining ithttp://video.google.com/videop...35391
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CrazyInteg
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Re: (WDRacing)
wtf? This is a joke, right?WDRacing wrote:Its easy, remove intank fuel pump, buy MSD external fuel pump for $100, fill up with E85. Run 370's with a stock ecu in NA form, add bigger injectors and a controller with boost. No timing retard needed since it's 104 octane at the minimum.
Hows that?
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WDRacing
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Re: (CrazyInteg)
No, thats a basic rundown...
Re: (WDRacing)
My buddies shop talon has been on pure E85 for about a year now, no problems with stock lines, pumps, or injectors. In fact they went from 110oct making 602whp to 660 whp with the E85. Only thing they did was added a second walbro intank fuel pump and bigger injectors, added more fuel to the tune. They saw that the T66 turbo spooled up about 600rpm's sooner on the E85 with a 2.0L motor. There is a 240sx here (95) that has converted about 6 months ago and is making around 400 on the stock longblock daily driven. And an S13 that has just changed over and will be dynoing tonight. He added another in tank walbro and bigger injectors, He is looking to make 600+ on a T67 with built motor. Mine will be converting in the near future as well.
As a race fuel this stiuff is awesome.
As a race fuel this stiuff is awesome.
Re: (extreme135)
Actually I didn't want to say anything on here yet, and wont for a while. But I do have a really good friend thats a PHD Candidate and works here at the Fermi Lab in Chicago.extreme135 wrote:Has anybody looked into running tap water into hydrogen to run your car, I have been researching this some, a guy actually invented this in the phillipines, and it actually seems pretty self explanitory on how it works, especially after you watch this video, I know its not E85, just tap water.
Right now he is working on a prototype project that will actually make the car a hybrid Hydrogen car. Meaning you will still need fuel but it will improve gas millage of up to 45%. I will be testing this prototype here in the next 2 or 3 weeks. As soon as the results come in I will post a full article about it.
Re: (S13FX)
The main drawback of the E85 is availability. What happens if you are low on gas and can't find it?
As for the cost - if E85 is $2.00 per gallon but requires an additional 45% consumption you can simply multiply $2.00 * 1.45 to get $2.90 as opposed to $300 for straight gas. If those numbers are correct.
Also, I don't think E85 has any environmental benefit as it will still produce CO2 - perhaps there is some IDK. The main thing is that we are not giving our money to nut jobs that want to kill us.
But for us, it would simply be a low cost racing fuel. This would make the most difference to someone already pushing hella boost. I am limited by the strength of my stock internals so I see no real benefit save maybee a bit more low end, low boost torque.
I do know there are like 2 places withing a couple of hours from Detroit that sell it. And they are a couple hours away.
BTW - the price of corn syrup and many other products has gone through the roof since corn is being diverted to ethanol production so be prepaired to pay through the nose at the supermarket. I produce soft drinks and the price of my sugar is up 45% - I pay about $5,000 per month for sugar. It's so bad that Coke is looking into alternative sweetners.
As for the cost - if E85 is $2.00 per gallon but requires an additional 45% consumption you can simply multiply $2.00 * 1.45 to get $2.90 as opposed to $300 for straight gas. If those numbers are correct.
Also, I don't think E85 has any environmental benefit as it will still produce CO2 - perhaps there is some IDK. The main thing is that we are not giving our money to nut jobs that want to kill us.
But for us, it would simply be a low cost racing fuel. This would make the most difference to someone already pushing hella boost. I am limited by the strength of my stock internals so I see no real benefit save maybee a bit more low end, low boost torque.
I do know there are like 2 places withing a couple of hours from Detroit that sell it. And they are a couple hours away.
BTW - the price of corn syrup and many other products has gone through the roof since corn is being diverted to ethanol production so be prepaired to pay through the nose at the supermarket. I produce soft drinks and the price of my sugar is up 45% - I pay about $5,000 per month for sugar. It's so bad that Coke is looking into alternative sweetners.
Re: (elks 240)
well my buddy Efeezi ended up making 560whp with the E85 setup. He had some MAF issues, but he will be back when he gets used to the power it is making right now. He said it was crazy driving on the streets even with the 275 40 17 drag radials.
Anybody catch that special on E85 last night? I only cought a little bit but they had these guys saying that, performance aside, there is 0 benefit from E85. They say that if %100 of the nation's corn crop went to E85 it would only reduce our consuption of forign oil by %12. It is no better for the environment and that the whole thing is a scheme to make a handfull of people rich.
I must say, I had a couple of chemistry profs that were into alternative fuels and I remember one telling me that there is not enough physical space on the planet to meet our energy needs via ethanol. This was several years ago.
I must say, I had a couple of chemistry profs that were into alternative fuels and I remember one telling me that there is not enough physical space on the planet to meet our energy needs via ethanol. This was several years ago.
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PapaSmurf2k3
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Re: (Edub1)
It makes you wonder how much longer the internal combustion engine will be around...
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WDRacing
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Re: (Edub1)
The main benefit with ethanol is the 104 octane...which is more then enough for me.
There isn't enough oil/ethanol or any other petro product on this entire planet to keep us happy for a lot longer. We are wasters and consumers with 90% of the population not giving a crap what happens to anything or anyone.
We're destroying the planet, that's PURE FACT right there. We put a dude on the moon FOREVER ago. We have the technology to do almost anything right now, we just choose not to. The people in power across the globe are going to choose to line their pockets and stay in power as long as possible.
We could all be driving 200whp 1.3 liter turbocharged cars that get 40+ MPG in the city. The people who control the oil have SO much money that they can influence almost any decision in their favor. It doesn't help that we've had nothing but a corrupt white house for the last 12 friggin years either.
If I can make a few hardworking farmers rich, so be it. I'll gladly pay more per gallon and give the money to American farmers.
E85 and Propane along with a slew of other options are definitely the answer to the future of internal combustion. I'll get off my soapbox now...
Oh, everyone forgets that oil isn't just used for gas and lubrication products, its in almost everything you use everyday. The keyboard you're using and the monitor you're looking at right now are oil products.
WD
There isn't enough oil/ethanol or any other petro product on this entire planet to keep us happy for a lot longer. We are wasters and consumers with 90% of the population not giving a crap what happens to anything or anyone.
We're destroying the planet, that's PURE FACT right there. We put a dude on the moon FOREVER ago. We have the technology to do almost anything right now, we just choose not to. The people in power across the globe are going to choose to line their pockets and stay in power as long as possible.
We could all be driving 200whp 1.3 liter turbocharged cars that get 40+ MPG in the city. The people who control the oil have SO much money that they can influence almost any decision in their favor. It doesn't help that we've had nothing but a corrupt white house for the last 12 friggin years either.
If I can make a few hardworking farmers rich, so be it. I'll gladly pay more per gallon and give the money to American farmers.
E85 and Propane along with a slew of other options are definitely the answer to the future of internal combustion. I'll get off my soapbox now...
Oh, everyone forgets that oil isn't just used for gas and lubrication products, its in almost everything you use everyday. The keyboard you're using and the monitor you're looking at right now are oil products.
WD
I think the GSXR Hyabusa is a 1.3L that makes around 200HP. I wonder what kind of gas milage it would get if we put it in a car.
The simple fact is that the average American has too much money and really doesn't care too much about high fuel prices. Sure, that might change a little if gas tops $5 per gallon but untill then people will drive their gas guzzlers.
Really, the only solution is to get people out of their cars. If we make super efficient cars people will just drive more. The real answer is a move back toward city living and building vertically as opposed to horizontally. Many cities have for years had height restrictions on buildings. This forces builders to build horizontally, which it turn makes people drive a lot more. This is why strip malls each take up a half mile of road. This also makes mass transit futile because things are just too spread out. Would you get off a bus at one end of a mile long strip mall and walk to the other end to where you need to go and then back to the bus stop? Not me.
I think there will need to be some major changes in the way we do things before the fuel problem can even begin to be addressed.
The simple fact is that the average American has too much money and really doesn't care too much about high fuel prices. Sure, that might change a little if gas tops $5 per gallon but untill then people will drive their gas guzzlers.
Really, the only solution is to get people out of their cars. If we make super efficient cars people will just drive more. The real answer is a move back toward city living and building vertically as opposed to horizontally. Many cities have for years had height restrictions on buildings. This forces builders to build horizontally, which it turn makes people drive a lot more. This is why strip malls each take up a half mile of road. This also makes mass transit futile because things are just too spread out. Would you get off a bus at one end of a mile long strip mall and walk to the other end to where you need to go and then back to the bus stop? Not me.
I think there will need to be some major changes in the way we do things before the fuel problem can even begin to be addressed.
Re: (WDRacing)
LOL, I'm speaking more in terms of commercial buildings although city living is not a new concept. You think the way NY city is built is dumb?WDRacing wrote:I've lived in a house for the last 10 years...building verticle is almost the dumbest idea I've ever heard. What about pets? Where do children play? You'd sacrifice these things to get better transportation?
People would still live outside the city as well - it's not a all or nothing deal. And it's not about better transit it's about not destroying the atmoshphere, depleating our resources and giving our money to nut jobs who will spend it on weapons to kill us.
Where will the children play when all our land is contaminated from nuclear fallout?
Re: (Edub1)
Since this thread got kind of off topic let me just say this, and then lets try to get it back on topic.
The answers to the whole transportation thing my friends is right under our noses, Europe got it damn right perfectly, and America really can't.
Its called Public Transportation. Here in America you see people everyday driving their huge cars every where, and when you look in them what do you see only one person in the car. This kind of stuff is probably the number one source for our problems.
Another thing is Brian hit the nail on the head. E85 isn't here to burn cleaner or save the atmosphere. It's here to preserve the oil. Like I said Brian hit it right on the head.
Everything we pretty much look at, we use everyday, Is made out of using oil, if we loose that, it will cause a huge inflation on our market, fuel will be the last thing to worry about.
Now the answer does lie in making hydrogen powerd, or electric powered cars. And honestly speaking belive it or not we are closer to producing a fully hydrogen powered car then we are to producing full electric car, what I mean by that is it being fully reliable and easily refueld.
Using water to produce hydrogen powered cars isn't hard, all it takes is splitting some molecules and keeping them under control. But in all honestly what government in their right mind would allow for such a thing.
Think about it.Mike
The answers to the whole transportation thing my friends is right under our noses, Europe got it damn right perfectly, and America really can't.
Its called Public Transportation. Here in America you see people everyday driving their huge cars every where, and when you look in them what do you see only one person in the car. This kind of stuff is probably the number one source for our problems.
Another thing is Brian hit the nail on the head. E85 isn't here to burn cleaner or save the atmosphere. It's here to preserve the oil. Like I said Brian hit it right on the head.
Everything we pretty much look at, we use everyday, Is made out of using oil, if we loose that, it will cause a huge inflation on our market, fuel will be the last thing to worry about.
Now the answer does lie in making hydrogen powerd, or electric powered cars. And honestly speaking belive it or not we are closer to producing a fully hydrogen powered car then we are to producing full electric car, what I mean by that is it being fully reliable and easily refueld.
Using water to produce hydrogen powered cars isn't hard, all it takes is splitting some molecules and keeping them under control. But in all honestly what government in their right mind would allow for such a thing.
Think about it.Mike
Re: (S13FX)
In every city where mass-transit is successfull you will find high population density. It just isn't possible when 3 stores take up a mile of road. That is why NY has all those tall buildings and their mass-transit works.
Ethanol is not a viable fuel alternative.
Now let's return the thread to it's original topic - ethanol is a great low cost race fuel.
Ethanol is not a viable fuel alternative.
Now let's return the thread to it's original topic - ethanol is a great low cost race fuel.
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WDRacing
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Re: (Edub1)
I hate kids anyway...Edub1 wrote:
Where will the children play when all our land is contaminated from nuclear fallout?
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drape123
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Re: (GTR PrYdE)
i got a KA-T running E85, timing and fuel maps i did myself.what i can tell you guys about e85 is it loves timing. i got 388whp and 436ft lbs wtq at only 18psi. i am very happy with these results.every degree or two of timing i advance the hp shot up about 10whp.
if you can get e85 in your area, i highly recommend it. i have tuned a few ka-t's and 1 high compression ka with it and have had great results.
if you can get e85 in your area, i highly recommend it. i have tuned a few ka-t's and 1 high compression ka with it and have had great results.
GTR PrYdE wrote:Im eagerly awaiting e85, a guy on the evo forums is pushing 510whp daily with a 35r and e85 fuel only! He made 475whp on 93+alky. An awesome gain over straight 93. Cheap Racegas thats eco-friendly FTW!
EDIT: This is on a very low reading mustang dyno. Add about 15-20% ad it'll be close to dynojet numbers.
Re: (drape123)
How far from stock timing are you?
Unless you have an E85 station at the end of your block and you fill up daily, the time will come when you get stranded. Perhaps you could carry a can of denatured alcohol in your trunk.
Unless you have an E85 station at the end of your block and you fill up daily, the time will come when you get stranded. Perhaps you could carry a can of denatured alcohol in your trunk.
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PapaSmurf2k3
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Re: (Edub1)
A little planning goes a long way. Remember the days when planning was required? Before Cell phones? You agreed to "meet somewhere" with your friends. Amazing thought. Besides, if he runs out and needs to get home or whatever, I'm sure he can fill up with premium and just keep it under 2800rpms and be fine.
Re: (PapaSmurf2k3)
Also what are you using for tuning? Maybe if you have a chipped ECU, and the chips are on a ZIF zocket carry two chips with you. One for E85 one for Pump gas. Thats what I did.
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zero_gripS13
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Re: (S13FX)
im doing this next summer when i convert o ka-t.. my plms daughter board can hold 4 tunes..
so ill be able to run gas or e85. i have a few questions..
why do u need to change pumps?
would a single walbro be enough? a 255hlp . im not shooting for 600hp.. im gona run a t28 at 8-10psi...
so ill be able to run gas or e85. i have a few questions..
why do u need to change pumps?
would a single walbro be enough? a 255hlp . im not shooting for 600hp.. im gona run a t28 at 8-10psi...
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drape123
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Re: (Edub1)
i am running 14* total timing at WOT right now @ 22psi. it is very conservative.Edub1 wrote:How far from stock timing are you?
Unless you have an E85 station at the end of your block and you fill up daily, the time will come when you get stranded. Perhaps you could carry a can of denatured alcohol in your trunk.
i'll admit it takes more E85 (about 30% more) but if i am not mashing on the pedal i dont really feel the difference. plus it is $2.80 for 105 octane.so i add 2.80 x 0.30 = 3.64 a gallon for 105 octane. i like that.
i go through a tank every week. but my 100lb injectors take a lot of fuel
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drape123
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Re: (zero_gripS13)
absolutely. i run 400whp with 1 walbro and e85 at 22psi. just rewire your fuel pump for a direct 12v line. i believe there is a write up on here or freshalloy how to do it.zero_gripS13 wrote:im doing this next summer when i convert o ka-t.. my plms daughter board can hold 4 tunes..
so ill be able to run gas or e85. i have a few questions..
why do u need to change pumps?
would a single walbro be enough? a 255hlp . im not shooting for 600hp.. im gona run a t28 at 8-10psi...
Re: (drape123)
yep, a walbro 255 is plenty for up to about 500whp, no need for an external pump either. most guys get a double pumper in-tank setup for 500+there was a rumors going around saying e85 was too conductive to electricity but that has been proved wrong toodrape123 wrote:
absolutely. i run 400whp with 1 walbro and e85 at 22psi. just rewire your fuel pump for a direct 12v line. i believe there is a write up on here or freshalloy how to do it.
Re: (drape123)
anyone running on e85 with their own tune willing to post it up along with a description of what you changed?
Re: (GTR PrYdE)
I would like to know who is making 500whp on full E85 with a single walbro 255.
The best I have seen, was 400 and I am sure you can make a little bit more but I have yet to see 500 on a single.
I have seen 500 on a single walbro running racegas but not on E85
The best I have seen, was 400 and I am sure you can make a little bit more but I have yet to see 500 on a single.
I have seen 500 on a single walbro running racegas but not on E85
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