DYNO TEST RESULTS ( Not To Happy )

[72nismo]

Ok here we go I have a Stock KA24DE Turbo on a Datsun 510. Just came back from dyno and was told my car was running to SUPER LEAN at 4500 RPM.Also noticed that he ran the car up to 11 psi boost but my boost guge says im running 9 lbs so I will have to get a new gauge since the one Im using is supre old.So here is my set-up just looking for some opinions from the TURBO GODS of what I can do to fix the problem. SET - UP 95 Stock KA24DE370cc Injectors (USED)Stock MAF JWT Engine Management300zx Fuel Pump No gas Filter yetT3 TurboHKS Blow Off Valve Intercooler ---- JUST ADDED Right now I have a 2 1/4" Diameter pipe for exhaust.Not sure if that comes to play with these results.

Here are pics of dyno results & car set -up.





Modified by 72nismo at 1:42 PM 9/1/2007

Modified by 72nismo at 1:43 PM 9/1/2007
Modified by 72nismo at 11:09 AM 9/5/2007

[480sx]

At 11 pds of boost with 370cc injectors im pretty sure your maxing out your fuel system. Either get bigger injectors, or get an adjustable FPR and crank up your FP. Or keep the boost down to around 7-8 and i think you would be fine.

Im loving that intake ^^

Btw thats a clean engine bay, nice work.

Damn i just saw your numbers, those are super low. You should atleast be in the low 200's with your setup i would think. Do you have your own wideband? If not you should probably get one, it will help alot. If your only making 170 hp it really doesnt make sense that your fuel system would be maxing out, the 370's are good for more than that.

Mabey your tune is bad?


Modified by 480sx at 1:57 PM 9/1/2007

[WDRacing]

The first thing I noticed is the lack of fuel filter. That is extremely bad. If one injector gets clogged, that cylinder will go lean and you'll blow your motor. Get a filter, they are far to cheap not to.

The T3 turbo is on the small side for the 2.4. But it's still capable of supporting 250whp if it's the right trim and you have the fuel to support it. The 370's are either at MAX or close to it. But the only way to tell is to monitor the AFR's. If it's going lean, then you need to stop increasing boost and or raise the fuel pressure like previously mentioned. You're definitly lacking in the power department for 11psi so somthing is out of tune. The average is 10whp per lb of boost.

What are the turbo specs? What type of exhaust mani are you using?

WD

[72nismo]

I bought the manifold from a shop that imports parts so it has no name brand. Turbo I dont know the specs on it. Here are some pics of it. Came off an FJ20Turbo motor & we use to boost 15lbs with it.

[WDRacing]

Yeah but the RB25 turbo was an upgrade on the FJ, and I wouldn't take the RB25 turbo past 1 bar on the KA. So the FJ is maxing out on efficiency.

[72nismo]

So what does that mean?

[Jookmasta]

gonna have to say that first off, your air intake though nicely done has alot of un-needed bends IMO. secondly, your a/f's are WAY too lean. you should be at 11.9-12.0..............your charts are saying 13's to 15's?

next thing is your actual results. i run a str8 t3 (60 trim with a .63 a/r on the exhaust side) and at a SOLID 9 pounds of boost, i made 240 or rwhp with similar torque numbers. your tune is definitely off and i would suggest in either an safc or getting your ecu retuned. Also, i would try to get larger injectors and a z32 MAF because those will soon (if not already) limiting the amount of power that you can generate. Beautiful 510 but just take care of those things so that you can enjoy the car even more.

[480sx]

Well i think his idea behind the intake was to minimize the air vortex effect on the MAF so it would read correctly. Still, you only need one 90* bend to do that, and most people dont even bother, as iv seen. Your intake is overkill, but DAMN does it look neat. Personally, im running my filter outside the engine bay itself, with a custom splash guard thats bolted where the old airbox used to be.

[72nismo]

In regards to my intake I was told I needed 12" to 18" so my MAF would read properly. That is why it is like that.

[neverlift]

lol maybe thats why my q maf wont work...

anyways you have a major issue!, my dohc 270cc injectors at 12psi of boost(left wastegate line unhooked),and sohc afm with a base fuel pressure of 58psi stayed in the 12~11.5:1 arear(no IC lol so yeah that rich is ok IMO), thats without an fmu(rrfpr) just a stanza ecu with some high arse cell values this is a t25 from an sr though,not a t3.

170 is n/a ka bolt ons area(w/tune), I wont go dyno ,but I'd put my setup at closer to 210chp,thats only at 6.5psi. IDK any specs on your turbo, but 11>6.....

whats up with that vtac kick at 4k? thats the spot where injectors stress the most or something., if thats what I can expect form 370's I may stick with stockers till I can afford new injectors. Did you flow est/clean teh injectors, ran any lucas altely? GET A FLITER I'll sell you my good used 300zx 95tt filter(thought it was bad last week but it flows just fine(dumped itself in 30 seconds lol), 5 bux plus shipping seriously though get a filter on there fast, it only take so many x micron particles to clog an injector up. Bad enough sonicleaning wont help.... FILTER/

crazy intake btw, I'd have just ran whatever length straight pipe though...

[ace0073]

first off, I wont speculate on why the power is so off, i will just go look at the car and hopefully help him work through these probs over the next couple of weeks. I am sure it is probably a combination of everything already stated. As for the intake, i am surprised that so many people are commenting on it. The reason it is like that is.....according to JWT, when you setup your MAF, you need approx. 18" between MAF and turbo (assuming the pipe is straight.) In order to shorten this distance, you can add a bend to the pipe as I believe everyone already knows. Now, if you notice in the 510 there is not much room and if you put a 90 bend in the tube then your MAF will be inside the shock tower so you must bring the pipe back around with second 90 bend in order to bolt on the MAF. I had the same prob in my 510 and ended up with a different setup to be different but should have done it this way. you can kinda make mine out in my avatar.

[NateDogg]

Extremely low power is related cam timing. You should tear the valve cover off and print out JWT's guide to KA24DE cam timing.

Good luck.Nate

[72nismo]

I just got off the phone with JWT and was told that if my motor was not 'PINGING" that most likely the car is not running super lean.I was told that if it is running super lean that the pinging or detonation would be there.Now he also said that when you dyno your car and they check your AFR from your tail pipe that it is not accurate and it needs to be checked with a wideband for more accurate AFR. So at this point I will have to invest on a wideband and see what it says. In regards to the cams I have never taken them apart or messed with them. Is the timing suppose to get out of whack by themselves???

[neverlift]

see that right there /\ is my beef with jwt did you even say the word detonation?

the shop was using a sniffer instead the norm wideband? no no IMHOif its only 20 bux more do it man, I'd hate to see a " I killed my kaT" thread...back to jwt, they use pretty conservative tunes and would explain your no detonation while lean condition, but still. Not sure if 11~12:1 would lean out to 14~15:1 afr unless you have some real bad leaks. I have a few small leaks, I bet its still close to12:1 coming out(no cat straight thru muffler) though.maybe try letting the shop tune it? but if its on a pipe hole sniffer dont let them.

[72nismo]

neverlift. were are you located at?

[neverlift]

the sunshine state florida

why? your not gonna come after me are you j/pbut seriously why

[72nismo]

Just wondering since it sounds like you have some JWT knowledge I thought you were local.

[480sx]

Extremely low power is related cam timing. You should tear the valve cover off and print out JWT's guide to KA24DE cam timing.

Good luck. Nate

While thats a reasonable guess, theres gotta be some follow up to rule it out.

Have the heads been taken off since you pulled the engine for the swap?

Your main issue as it seems is a fueling problem. I would make sure you dont have a clogged injector, or your FPR/Fuel pump is working correctly. Did you buy your fuel pump used?

With A/F's like that your actually lucky you didnt blow the motor man, i wouldnt be boosting your car like that till you figure out whats wrong.

Getting a wideband o2 system would help you out alot, id recommend Zeitronix, if you have a laptop. Their data logging capability is money. Also has a 8 times faster sampling rate than the LM-1 unit.

[72nismo]

I dont know what you are talking about when you say if I pulled the heads off.Motor is in the car.Motor has never been open up aside taking the valve cover off to get it polished.This weekend i plan to look at the fuel pressure and injectors. And yes I bought the fuel pump used.I am also looking into getting a wideband.

[DammitBobby]

If you get the Zeitronix go ahead and get the electronic boost sensor. Will help alot in tuning.

[neverlift]

main thing I see over cam issue is fueling, get a wideband.period, I dont like to trust other peoples ish personally when it comes to electronics and your motor. A real dynotech ,would have stopped the run when he saw your a/f ratios, had your motor went pop, and I saw that afr sheet I would have freak'd the f*** out. No one tunes a urbo motor at wot to 14 anything let alone 15:1 all I know is my 270cc stock units can hang with 10~11psi in the 11:1's, at a high fuel pressure though. probably maxing out into the 100%duty cycle...

as for me in cali no ,not that I recall. and experience with jwt, not too much personally, but Ive seen a rom or two get the fuel ish checked out and try to find a friend with w/b o2

[NateDogg]

If the cams have never been messed with, chances are they're OK.

This might not be such a bad dyno considering the potential for wacky AFR.

I would double check the ignition timing, make sure it's at 20*. JWT is conservative,especially in their 370 tune.

I wouldnt be looking for more than 200whp at 10psi from this turbo. What trim and A/R compressor and turbine housing is it?

Overall, I think you're in the ballpark. Just get the wideband on there and double check the ignition timing at idle.

IMO If you want more power you'll need a bigger turbo.Good luck,Nate

[darkforcejackal]

If those AFR #'s are correct, then you better do a compression test and make sure you've got proper #'s and didn't wreck anything!

Then, stay the heck out of boost until you can get some 11.0-12.0 consistent #'s from a proper wideband (yes, it's worth it as aforementioned).

As mentioned i'd also suspect something possibly problematic with either your fuel pump, filter or injectors. Perhaps have the injectors flow-tested?

When you've got the right air/fuel mixture I bet you'll make better power (and have more peace of mind!)

Good luck man!

[2FourTee]

As for the intake, i am surprised that so many people are commenting on it. The reason it is like that is.....according to JWT, when you setup your MAF, you need approx. 18" between MAF and turbo (assuming the pipe is straight.) In order to shorten this distance, you can add a bend to the pipe as I believe everyone already knows. Now, if you notice in the 510 there is not much room and if you put a 90 bend in the tube then your MAF will be inside the shock tower so you must bring the pipe back around with second 90 bend in order to bolt on the MAF. I had the same prob in my 510 and ended up with a different setup to be different but should have done it this way. you can kinda make mine out in my avatar.

Isn't there plenty of room in front of the engine?? Could run the intake pipe in front of it.

[spooled240]

Yeah check the afr's, then if they're wacked check the injectors...they're used and have no filter they might be clogged/leaking or what not..

[bruinbear714]

Engine management.

Engine management.

Engine management.

The turbo you have is a little too small for the KA motor, especially with that internal wastegate style. Keep your motor to 7psi or less otherwise your injectors will max. out. You can raise the fuel pressure SLIGHTLY (but not more than 10% IMO otherwise your injectors can get stuck). I would get 550cc or 740cc injectors.

And get a real engine management system to maximize the potential of the setup. Ditch the mail order stuff. I had a ka-turbo that had marginal engine management and it was crap. Now I have another KA turbo setup on a different car with a Power FC with MAP sensor. That car's seen numerous autox & drift events and the engine still idles like new.

[mikebradfordark]

help my intake manifold sucked in some plastic and now i know it gone to the valve can you help ?

[WDRacing]

help my intake manifold sucked in some plastic and now i know it gone to the valve can you help ?

Make a new thread about this and we'll help if we can.

WD

[kpc_0721]

Wait when did they start making a Power FC for the ka!?!?!?

[nismo dreaming]

They haven't, FR Sport is working on making an adapter harness to make it work with the ka. Check out the link for more info. http://www.frsport.com/Power_F....html

And i agree with bruinbear714, i just got done installing my AEM EMS and its sooo much better than that mail order crud.

Get some bigger injectors, fuel filter, FPR, and wideband, then re-dyno.

Good luck to ya.