Dyno 3 pulls $75 ???

[DReed86]

Surman,

Your car is NOT that slow..... It has to be much fast I race all of the time.... Almost every car that will race me..... lol

And I have beaten or I am very close to beating a lot of cars in the same 280-310hp range. Like G's, Mustang GT's, SLK's Lexus IS 350's

So there is no way that our car is that slow, it has to be the Dyno's inability to correctly messure CVT.

Id demand a refund... but thats me. This guy said he "could dyno" but a dyno is only good if its accurate... This is far from accurate.

[surmanm]

If you like my username you'd love my license plate: DANK.

EHHH i should have just used the $75 to buy myself some good dank instead of wasting my money on a dyno and raping the living s*** of of my car.. i smelled and saw the rape

[alphapig]

EHHH i should have just used the $75 to buy myself some good dank instead of wasting my money on a dyno and raping the living s*** of of my car.. i smelled and saw the rape

Nearly a quad man. I have a hard time dealing with this opportunity cost on a daily basis haha

This makes me wonder what the WHP number for my 2.5CVT will be.

Around 140? EW

Really makes me wish I waited for a 2.5MT. Very annoying how rare they were in late 2007.

[adidas2go]

I would estimate (based on previous knowledge of modifications on cars), that you have about 290 hp coming out of your engine now. Which, with a 30hp leach from the CVT, would leave you at 260whp. I think you're mods might have given you a slight jump, but its not a whole lot of difference. You should find an auto transmission 07+ G35 and race it. They have about 311hp. The G35 should beat you by about 1 1/2, maybe 2 car lengths down a 1/4 mile track.

[toxik]

I am still confused at the whole 218hp that the machine read. The number came from somewhere... it could of been 120hp or 16 or 400 or 200.... 218 eventhough a lot lower than what you would expect from surman's car is still in a range of his v6 could potentially be putting out.

I agree with everyone who says the problem comes from gear ratios and that you won't get an accurate reading with CVT as it has no real gears.

But other possibilities are possible:-Bottlenecking-No Tune to his mods-Bully dog tuner (I doubt it though)

What pisses me off is here is this product you buy, other than a house, probably the most expensive object you purchase and you can't even test what you paid for? Oh I have 270hp cause a paper says so, but without being able to confirm that.... seems like a rip off to me. Any other product with a similar situation, people would be in outrage. Most settle for the butt-dyno :|

My suggestion to surman is to do a 1/4 mile run with a dynoed car, then you can guestimate the hp... other than that I see no real solution. Especially since no one on this forum wants to do dynos (i'm talking to you 6mt guys)

[Hussain]

If the CVT has a 20% drivetrain loss, that would be 270 - (270 x .2) = 216 horsepower. Which, is really close to what his numbers show. He has quite a few mods, though, and I have them as well and they definitely make a difference, so I'd expect his numbers to be higher than that. Now, if the CVT has a 30% drivetrain loss, then he might have been starting out with 189 HP to the wheels, which means the mods added 31 horsepower to the wheels. I doubt the drivetrain loss is that much though.

I guess it's all speculation though..

EXACTLY what I was thinking! most cars have between 15% and 20% I think for manuals. CVT probably has a significant amount more drivetrain loss. the real question is how much? probably somewhere between 20% and 30%

[BigDankCloud]

EXACTLY what I was thinking! most cars have between 15% and 20% I think for manuals. CVT probably has a significant amount more drivetrain loss. the real question is how much? probably somewhere between 20% and 30%

From what I've read and learned about on this subject, we should not be experiencing 20-30% loss.

What drives the loss in the drivetrain is the weight of the parts, the friction and the method that it transfers energy to other parts.

This being said, automatic transmissions usually give up more, but not that much more. FWD 6mt cars normally see 10-15%. I'd expect more around 18% at most we lose with our CVT.

20-30% is saying that we have an AWD car as they lose alot more in their drivetrain. No way the CVT and its belt weigh/create friction like those. Just no.

I mean that 218 number is just over 19%, if you say he has a stock car without any HP/TQ modifications, which he does.

Add all that together and it tells you what? It tells you that your data is skewed because it was incorrectly captured and is invalid.

Heck, I've got my iphone predicting correctly the amount of hp tq and skidpad info for my car and a bunch of my engineering buddies here at work. My car says anywhere from 240-260 depending on where I run the car.

Please, someone with a modded 6mt step up and quiet this whole thing down, PLEASE!
Modified by BigDankCloud at 6:24 AM 4/8/2010

[DReed86]

Ok so the 20-30% drop from the drive train puts in the 215-220 whp..... this is still stock.......... surman has a lot of upgrade which has to add something to this number.... usless,: stillen, racingline, and bully dog are all lying to us and there products do absolutly nothing......

I dont think so

[XXplosive990]

lol id be pissed too if my car only had 218 hp

[adidas2go]

Everyone needs to let go of the 218whp idea. Here is an Injen Dyno from the 3.5 CVT with their intake. Looks like that got 209 whp vs a 199 base whp. So you got very close to 19 hp from all your mods.

[Hussain]

"WITHOUT MR TECHNOLOGY CAR RUNS VERY LEAN"

what does that mean?

[adidas2go]

Just the way the intake is built. They are saying that the style of their regular round intake will throw the MAF into a loop and make the system run lean. The MR technology apparently runs better.

Specifically the MR is for "Mega Ram". Pretty much the intake has a pretty large diameter, then when it gets to the section where the mass airflow sensor is mounted, the pipes diameter gets a little bit smaller, then increases once its past the MAF, all the way to the throttle body.

These late model vehicles have very sensitive factory a/f ratios. Through the step down process, MR Technology will regulate the airflow at certain strategic points, ultimately controlling the rate and density. By doing so, the MR Technology process tunes the intake system to avoid the necessity of calibrating MAF sensors, as seen here.

[wade001]

I am still confused at the whole 218hp that the machine read. The number came from somewhere... it could of been 120hp or 16 or 400 or 200.... 218 eventhough a lot lower than what you would expect from surman's car is still in a range of his v6 could potentially be putting out.

I agree with everyone who says the problem comes from gear ratios and that you won't get an accurate reading with CVT as it has no real gears.

But other possibilities are possible:-Bottlenecking-No Tune to his mods-Bully dog tuner (I doubt it though)

What pisses me off is here is this product you buy, other than a house, probably the most expensive object you purchase and you can't even test what you paid for? Oh I have 270hp cause a paper says so, but without being able to confirm that.... seems like a rip off to me. Any other product with a similar situation, people would be in outrage. Most settle for the butt-dyno :|

My suggestion to surman is to do a 1/4 mile run with a dynoed car, then you can guestimate the hp... other than that I see no real solution. Especially since no one on this forum wants to do dynos (i'm talking to you 6mt guys)

I dyno'd my car a while back but people didn't believe me when i posted my results. So if you would like to see MY results they are 139.3WHP @ 5149rpm & 162TQ @3738rpm. this is completely stock for my 2.5. I plan to do mods over time and dyno them to see if i get any benifets and i will share them. oh yah, and i did a 10.5 in the 1/8th mile at a dragstrip. but now i did a few things so ill see if it made a difference

[im89]

i dont know about the dyno..but i still think our cars are pretty fast i have a 3.5 cvt and i drove a z before and it was fast but it wasnt anything to make me feel like my car was slow and it was a 2004 z so i think that was 300hp.

[nurseryboy]

I had a manual transmission 2006 350z (300 HP), and it was definitely faster than my stock AC, but now with all the mods I have on my AC, I truly believe my AC is faster now. I also could stay even with an 07 Mustang GT (manual, 300 HP also) with only a few of the mods on my AC, so I can only believe that with the addition of Y-Pipe and Bullydog, I'm faster as well now. Who knows though.. So may variables.

[blackteam02]

Everyone needs to let go of the 218whp idea. Looks like that got 209 whp . So you got very close to 19 hp from all your mods.

dang, id go with the 218whp rather than 209whp even more confusion! ___________________

DREED: I was thinking the same thing!! are the makers of these performance mods LYING to us, with they're HP gain claims?!?! i mean its bad enough that we get very little aftermarket love -but- what we do get...are lies? i really-really want to beLIEve these claims..or are we all buying Snake Oil!!

the bright side of all this im glad somebody finally stepped up and disclosed their dyno'd A/C..keep it going everyone!

[bunda4th]

You have to realize that the claims that are given to these aftermarket parts are just estimates and can be close because you have to realize multiple things:

When was it dyno, cold or warm day etc.How was it dyno since there are more than 1 type of dyno I believe.Also each car is different even if its just minor but you can't built the same thing over and over and expect it to be the same.

Several factors to when it was dyno to achieve said power claim.

Also the whp that was given is not reliable and should be toss. Until someone with a 3.5se 6mt get the car dyno then you can see the power gain on certain mods.

[PHENOMenalVinyl]

my new 20's will have such a big lip itll add 50hp plus i got the cf hood VENTED +120hp and the cf spoilers gotta be like 25 each im sittin pretty yo i prob got more hp than ur p**** car surman lol

[nurseryboy]

I wouldn't get too worked up about the results people, as like it's been discussed, the CVT can't be dyno'd accurately due to its lack of 1:1 gear ratio. Sure, these numbers aren't what we'd like to hear, but I don't think they're very accurate. Like adidas2go said, he has had his car dyno'd 15-20 times, and with the turbo on, numbers ranged from 150whp to 330whp. That's a HUGE difference (180whp!). Stillen has had the same issues with dynoing the CVT, and if they can't figure it out, then I doubt a random place with a dyno will be able to. I'm just saying, let's not treat these numbers as the gospel and start making all other kinds of assumptions, because the numbers might not be correct to begin with.

[soxypoo]

heck you can always inject woot woot

[adidas2go]

dang, id go with the 218whp rather than 209whp even more confusion!

Shouldn't be confusing. His 218 whp is achieved because he has more mods (y-pipe, exhaust, tuning comp). The 209 whp is probably close to what he would have achieved stock, which is what Injen achieved. So, just to recap:

Injens base whp - 199 Mikes probable base whp - 199Injens whp w/ intake - 209 Mikes probable whp w/ intake- 209 Injens total dyno whp - 209 Mikes total dyno - 219

Total aftermarket upgrade - +10 whp Mikes aftermarket upgade - +20whp

Which means, The other 10whp are coming from his other aftermarket upgrades. I think the big thing a lot of people aren't understanding here is that aftermarket parts aren't tested together by manufacture, each one is separately tested on a base model car. So, that means the manufactures increase numbers cannot be added on top of another ones. For example:

Injen intake aftermarket dyno results +10whpStillen exhaust (never made a claim) but lets say +10whpUnderdrive pulley, Stillen claims +10 whp Racinglilne Y-Pipe claim +13 whp BullyDog Claim + 22whp

Total claimed +65 whp. Coupe should fly right? WRONG.

The claims apart might equal this, but together, they start to null each other out. The flow that the y-pipe creates might not be optimized by the a/f ratio that's created now from the larger intake. After all this is done, the tuner can't really do anything with it because its pre-programmed to make the best from whats in the car STOCK. So all in all, its more of an average law when it comes to aftermarket parts.

[XXplosive990]

I would estimate (based on previous knowledge of modifications on cars), that you have about 290 hp coming out of your engine now. Which, with a 30hp leach from the CVT, would leave you at 260whp. I think you're mods might have given you a slight jump, but its not a whole lot of difference. You should find an auto transmission 07+ G35 and race it. They have about 311hp. The G35 should beat you by about 1 1/2, maybe 2 car lengths down a 1/4 mile track.

ive raced an auto G, and he was actually the one about a car length behind me. these numbers are just off. I've beat GT's, SRT4's, Audi A4's, and 350Z's. w

[adidas2go]

Its very important that the Auto G you are racing is an 07+. The VQ35HR motor that's in the 07+ 350z's and G35's came with 311 hp. The 03-05 G35's and 350z's had regular VQ35DE motors, that produced 260hp. The 05-06's had the VQ35DE RevUp motors, which are the motors used in the altima coupe 3.5, and the 07+ have the VQ35HR motor with 311hp

[2008AltiCoupeDan]

This would be interesting to do at Carlisle for some of us- I wanted to do the dyno run last year but idk- what u guys think? I dnt trust the dyno's around me but idk-

[DReed86]

I think its a great idea Dan, maybe we should all dyno our cars and see what we get. Maybe get a group buy????? Not $75 but somone mention $30 for 3 runs I would be down for that Does anyone know how much the dyno is at carsile?

[2008AltiCoupeDan]

I think it would be a good idea imho- I might be able to give *honest* readings w/ my 6spd and as a 2ndary - PhEnoM could dyno his car too as the 2nd 6spd for us 2.5's

I think we would run into the same prob if a cvt went for it- and it might be a waste because the member would just be giving money to get a miscalculated reading- or we would get into the same mumbo jumbo that occured in this thread.

Either way- early saturday wen we all get to the grounds, we should group up and walk down to the dyno booth and ask and see what happens. I dont think they would give us a deal rate tho cus we already have to pay- i think last year it was $25 a run - and there are always gna be ppl all day that will pay the going fee. hell- there was a 00' pontiac gtp that stayed on it for like 2 hours last time .... but i think it would be a good idea.

the more dyno sheets we get the better tho because even though i doubt the cvt has a 20-30% dyno loss, they still remain close to a standard trans and if the applied 2maybe 3 hp loss is apparent for the difference, that wouldnt mean more than 2-3% difference.

my goal is 218 lol :P just so i can say i have the same hp as a cvt HAHA! lol jk jk jk

D man- "the notorious" i think it'd be a good idea to get on the fairgrounds early and talk to the dyno guys- see if we can do anything for Nico perhaps

[DReed86]

Def. man Im in!! I dont know how im going to get the girls up maybe Ill leave them and come back and pick them up.... Honestly I wouldnt mind getting my car dyno'd, I just want to do it anyway see if I can get something different than Surman.... What time you thinking of going over there???

[XXplosive990]

Its very important that the Auto G you are racing is an 07+. The VQ35HR motor that's in the 07+ 350z's and G35's came with 311 hp. The 03-05 G35's and 350z's had regular VQ35DE motors, that produced 260hp. The 05-06's had the VQ35DE UpRev motors, which are the motors used in the altima coupe 3.5, and the 07+ have the VQ35HR motor with 311hp

true, i've had an 08 350z pretty much murder my car lol

[coupecrazy1232]

true, i've had an 08 350z pretty much murder my car lol

it also depends on the driver...take for instance last night...me n my girl were going to dinner and an 04 z wanted to race (i have a 2.5) and we were running about 40 so i threw my cvt to man mode and and gunned it and by the time we hit 95 i was a car length ahead of him...god to honest truth i even told dreed and 2008AltiCoupeDan...this should not happen given the huge diff in hp...either way i was right proud of my baby!!!

[DReed86]

I love how everyone is rotating btwn Facebook and forums... Hilarious Tough day at work.. lol