Dumb question about steering angle

[TheRealNap0le0n]

dumb question buuut.... how do aftermarket tie-rods help with steering angle.... like what im used to as a mechanic who has done alignments before, when you align the car you will end up with the same adjusted length no matter what so what magic happens to increase S-A..

kthnxbye

[cattledrftr]

Many aftermarket tie rods have longer threads for more adjustment hence making longer and pushing the wheel out further.

[cattledrftr]

also there is no such thing as a dumb question

[Gabes13]

I have no clue. The tie rod shank is perpendicular to the ground no matter how much bumps steer adjustment is made. I know the spacers for the inner tie rods increase angle by initially increasing the track of the steering rack, but adjustable outters? idk. Heres a video that confuses me even more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5zzyAmXi0

@ 5:22 you can see they add kazama ends and they gained a little more angle.

[Chris28]

Many aftermarket tie rods have longer threads for more adjustment hence making longer and pushing the wheel out further.

Wrong. While they may have more threads, that's not what allows for more angle. There is just more space between there the rack threads start and where the inner tie rod hits the rack, as seen in the below picture. This allows the threaded portion to travel further into the rack before the square part of the inner tie rod hits the rack, like Gabe said.



Aftermarket outer tie rods only affect bump steer. By spacing the joint on which the tie rod pivots down, you lessen the angle and reduce bump steer. The reason the s14 in the Drift Tengoku video got more angle after the install of the outer tie rod was because before the tie rod was pointing up so it was effectively shorter. Now that it's closer to horizontal it's "longer" and it looks like there is more angle. Now the car has toe out and it should be re-aligned. Once it's aligned there shouldn't be any extra angle.

[cattledrftr]

Many aftermarket tie rods have longer threads for more adjustment hence making longer and pushing the wheel out further.

Wrong. While they may have more threads, that's not what allows for more angle. There is just more space between there the rack threads start and where the inner tie rod hits the rack, as seen in the below picture. This allows the threaded portion to travel further into the rack before the square part of the inner tie rod hits the rack, like Gabe said.





Yeah kinda spoofed myself on half ended answering that , I do have a question for you though. Most of my experience is with sn95 mustangs, do so some guys also remove the rack limiter spacers on 240's to help aid with angle?

[Chris28]

Ehhh we don't really have rack limiter spacers, but we do have bump stops built into the LCA. It's very common to cut off/modify the bump stop so that the knuckle can rotate more, but when you do this with stock knuckles you start to overcenter your steering rack, and having your steering wheel freeze up at full lock isn't very fun haha. Some shops sell modified knuckles that take care of the overcentering issue. In fact PBM's latest knuckle version fixes roll center, bump stop, and gets you a lot of angle, all with just a new knuckle.

[cattledrftr]

Thanks, I'll have to look into PBM's knuckle it really sounds like something I would be interested in for my build. Do you have a link for their page?

[Chris28]

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?15

These knuckles are definitely on my "to do" list. It's everything you need to correct your suspension geometry in one part.

[TheRealNap0le0n]

ok sooo I think I get whats going on now lol....

as a auto technician ive had PLENTY of experience with alignments and inner tie-rods/ rack replacement. but all stock stuff.

if I get what you are saying it is something like this:

stock: outer tierod---------O--||||||||||--O-----------outer tierod

after: outer tierod---------O---|||||||||||---O----------outer tie rod.

on the stock version the square part effectively bottoms out to the sliding portion of the rack where you lock it down.

on the aftermarket version the threaded part bottoms out inside the sliding part of the rack first?

[TheRealNap0le0n]

the thing that always got me was, if you are extending the inner tie rod that would create a toe in situation if all else remained the same in theory.

but if you adjusted the outer tie rod to compensate dont you lose any added lenth?

OR! possible epiphany, does the fact that there is the joint on the inner and you add the length on the side closest to the rack make the difference!

[Chris28]

ok sooo I think I get whats going on now lol....

stock: outer tierod---------O--||||||||||--O-----------outer tierod

after: outer tierod---------O---|||||||||||---O----------outer tie rod.

on the stock version the square part effectively bottoms out to the sliding portion of the rack where you lock it down.

on the aftermarket version the threaded part bottoms out inside the sliding part of the rack first?

Kinda...on your second illustration, you have more space between the square part and the actual rack. You adjust the outer tie rod so you still have the same distance from the rack to the knuckle and there's no difference in toe, but now the inner tie rod can go "further" into the rack, giving you more angle at full lock.

The inners technically don't ever bottom out inside the rack, what happens is the teeth on the rack stop so the pinion gear has nothing else to grab. I've never taken a rack apart so I'm not sure how close you get to the end of the teeth, but it's not an issue.

[Gabes13]

OR! possible epiphany, does the fact that there is the joint on the inner and you add the length on the side closest to the rack make the difference!

It doesn't matter bc you effectively increase the track width either way. 10$ spacer and 80$ inners with machined spacers do the same thing; They allow you to turn the wheel a little more, no matter which bottoms out first, the rack or the inners.