DTC/ Stalling

[sub0carfanatic]

Image 3
If you click on the image to enlarge it I believe you can see the values better. As you can see it is flat, which is somewhere above -7 so maybe 0 if that is correct, when the key is on. Then toward the end of the image you see the spike when I first hit the key . Image 4 below is the continuation of where it stays while the key is in constant cranking , hope I am making this to where you can understand it.

[sub0carfanatic]

Image 4. I hope this is ok and not wasteful the way I attached images, only way I could figure out how to do it.
So after the spike in image 3 you will notice it drops back down to the bumpy line where it stays while cranking.
I just noticed at the top of the screen of the AUTEL scanner above the live feed graph it shows a number, the 1st two images have a 0 so assuming that is the value . Image 3 and 4 show 3.5 at the top of the graph screen, which I assume is the Cam angle degree. So does that mean that 3.5 degrees is angle position, if that is what the, Int/v tim(b2) (*Ca means)

[sub0carfanatic]

Another question.... why is there only an option to live stream for this one ? Int/v tim(b2) ( *Ca ) Is there not a Ca sensor on bank 1 ? Bank 1 is the passenger side I assume because the sensor I replaced was on the front lower side of Driver side head so I assume that was bank 2 .

[VStar650CL]

Chart is hard to read, but it looks like it's bouncing around at 2~4 degrees. That could represent a tooth off, but the thing is, one tooth won't prevent it from starting. It would just run crappy. The sensor you replaced measures Phase for both banks, so that's what Nissan calls it, Phase or CMP. You're right that there should be two IVT's, and if there aren't it's a problem with your scanner and not the truck. So we may not even be looking at the right parameters because you may need a better scanner.

Back to basics, have you pulled a plug to look for spark?

[sub0carfanatic]

Chart is hard to read, but it looks like it's bouncing around at 2~4 degrees. That could represent a tooth off, but the thing is, one tooth won't prevent it from starting. It would just run crappy. The sensor you replaced measures Phase for both banks, so that's what Nissan calls it, Phase or CMP. You're right that there should be two IVT's, and if there aren't it's a problem with your scanner and not the truck. So we may not even be looking at the right parameters because you may need a better scanner.

Back to basics, have you pulled a plug to look for spark?

I have not checked for spark. This does not make sense to me, why would the scanner find both intake valve solenoids for bank 1 and bank 2 but only find bank 2 for the tim Cam angle.
What about my question for the brakleen, about the non chlorinated flammable vs the the stuff I have which is non flammable? I know I am asking a lot, so thank you again. Should I still spray some in the throttle body even if I hear the fuel pump coming on?

[sub0carfanatic]

What about the ECM relay issue, do you think that could be a possibility? I read here on the forums it is a common no start cause for my vehicle. Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, I will check for fire next.

[VStar650CL]

Non-flammable won't work, but most of the non-chlorinated stuff is still flammable. Give it a match test if you're not sure.

Vis the scanner, nobody said every GP scanner can read every parameter for every brand (or even read every parameter it does read correctly). Some software is way better than others.

[sub0carfanatic]

Non-flammable won't work, but most of the non-chlorinated stuff is still flammable. Give it a match test if you're not sure.

Vis the scanner, nobody said every GP scanner can read every parameter for every brand (or even read every parameter it does read correctly). Some software is way better than others.

I just went and purchased a can of the non chlorinated ( extremely flammable version0 of brake cleaner, sprayed some in the throttle body and it started right up and ran a few seconds, wish I had realized this yesterday, that I had the wrong kind of brake cleaner, but at least I know now. So this is better news than the timing is off I would say. So this means I need a fuel pump correct?

[sub0carfanatic]

I did figure out how to use the option on the scanner to to watch the live feed on both bank1 and bank 2 cam angle degree. I do not use this scanner very often so I am not overly familiar with all the functions yet. If you remember, earlier bank one was not listed , I found it and used a different type of graph that is easier to see, this was the values while cranking on it. It did start twice though when using the Non chlorinated brake cleaner.

[sub0carfanatic]

Where is the fuel pump relay located? I found the fuse for the fuel pump in engine bay in the rear fuse box behind the battery, but can not find the relay, I thought I would check the fuse and relay before buying a new fuel pump to make sure it isn't the relay or fuse.

[VStar650CL]

The relay is inside the IPDM and not serviceable, but if it doesn't start on supplemental fuel, that isn't the problem..

[sub0carfanatic]

The relay is inside the IPDM and not serviceable, but if it doesn't start on supplemental fuel, that isn't the problem..

Ok, I will go ahead and order a new fuel pump tomorrow. Thanks for all your help. I really do appreciate you.

[sub0carfanatic]

The relay is inside the IPDM and not serviceable, but if it doesn't start on supplemental fuel, that isn't the problem..

What fuel pump do you recommend I purchase , is there any worth purchasing aside from the OEM, I found one for $461, never paid that much for a fuel pump but as long as this fixes my problem it will probably be the last time it is ever replaced. I always like to stick with OEM unless a equal part is available for less money.

[VStar650CL]

So I take it it did start on supplemental fuel?

If so, check the following before replacing the pump:
1) Use a test lamp to make sure fuse #48 has constant power with the ignition on. If not, the IPDM has a blown circuit internally and you need a new one.
2) Make sure pin 13 Black/Yellow lights the lamp for 1.5 seconds each time you turn the key on. If not, the fuel pump relay is dead and you need an IPDM.
3) Access the pump connector and make sure pin 1 Black/Yellow tests the same as IPDM pin 13. If it doesn't, you have a wiring issue.
4) Make sure pin 3 Black (ground) on the fuel pump connector isn't blackened and ohms zero to the chassis. If it is blackened, you still need a new pump, but also a new connector (plenty available on Amazon or eBay). If the ohm reading is 0.5 ohm or more, you have a ground wire issue.

See PG-75 here for the IPDM layout:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 9%2FPG.pdf

[sub0carfanatic]

Ok VStar, I used my test light, it shows voltage and lights up, fuse 48 which is fuel pump fuse I believe, it has battery voltage with key on. I assume I just need to probe pin 13 ( larger black wire with yellow stripe ) from the back side of the wire side going in to the connector without unplugging that connector. So I'm not unplugging the connector and turning the end of the connector towards me then probing pin 13 I am doing it while it is still plugged into I assume what is the IPDM,(what that connector with pin 13 plugs into). So basically what I am asking is can I test each wire/pin while it is still plugged in by probing the back end of that wire that goes into whatever plug/connector it is in. I am not supposed to be probing the IPDM box side once the connector has been unplugged correct?
2nd question, to access the pin 1 Black/Yellow fuel pump connector you mention , which is on top of fuel tank I will have to remove the 2nd row passenger side seat and access pump which is under the carpet correct? and I need to unplug the connector from the pump to test it or do I test it with it still connected to the fuel pump by probing it from the back end like I mentioned previously? Sorry for all the questions but I want to make sure I get this all correct.
Last question, when checking pin 3 Black (ground) on fuel pump connector for 0 ohms you are saying clamp my test light to chassis ground and then probe pin 3 on the fuel pump connector while unplugged from the fuel pump correct?

[sub0carfanatic]

I tested fuse 48, it has battery voltage, I tested pin 13 ( without unplugging the connector ) and the light comes on each time for 1.5 seconds each time key is turned on. Now, how do I access the fuel pump connector? Can I access the fuel pump by removing the middle row passenger side seat and carpet? Is there already a cut out in the carpet for accessing the fuel pump? I wish I had an OEM shop manual that would show how to remove the seat to gain access to the FP. I will try going to the link you shared for the FSM where it showed the IPDM fuses and relays etc. and see if I can find the section for accessing FP and removing the seat, I assume this is the way to access the fuel pump instead of dropping the tank from below which would be the hard way. I at least feel like I am making forward progress eliminating one thing at a time thanks to you.

[sub0carfanatic]

I believe everything checks out VStar, I followed all your steps and all seems to check out. I do not understand why I can hear the fuel pump kick on when the key is turned on though when key is cycled on, if the pump is bad why does it still come on?

[VStar650CL]

When a pump goes bad it will often spin but won't produce enough fuel pressure to start the vehicle cold. I've even seen a few over the years where the impeller became detached from the shaft, with the motor humming merrily but zero fuel output. So yes, that's possible.

[sub0carfanatic]

When a pump goes bad it will often spin but won't produce enough fuel pressure to start the vehicle cold. I've even seen a few over the years where the impeller became detached from the shaft, with the motor humming merrily but zero fuel output. So yes, that's possible.

Ok, I understand. What do you think of the DELPHI parts line Fuel pump as a replacement, or should I stick with the OEM pump , I probably should, I just hate to spend just shy of $500 for a fuel pump. I have used DELPHI before for replacement parts, always seem to be good quality but not sure about their fuel pump, this is not a job I want to do twice. I finally got the seat flipped forward to access the fuel pump. I clamped one lead on to a seat frame mounting bolt for a ground and the other lead to the FP plug/connector, at fist the Ohms on the MM was fluctuating up and down i finally positioned it to where it stopped I think the ground is good. I can not thank you enough for all your time and invaluable help, I am sure appreciative! I will share an image of my reading.
Here are the images, i used the bolt on seat fold forward bracket as a ground for 1 probe and then the black wire in the plug probed with the other lead.

[VStar650CL]

There's nothing wrong with Delphi hardware, they do lots of OEM stuff and their connectors are top-notch. I wouldn't have the slightest problem putting their stuff in my own rides.

[sub0carfanatic]

There's nothing wrong with Delphi hardware, they do lots of OEM stuff and their connectors are top-notch. I wouldn't have the slightest problem putting their stuff in my own rides.

Ok, I will go with a DELPHI. Thanks again.

[VStar650CL]

[sub0carfanatic]

VStar I have a question. I was going to order our fuel pump today but wanted to recheck the fuel pump connector plug, I have it unplugged from the fuel pump so I could test the wires one last time to confirm everything before ordering the pump I found, I will include an image of the FP connector. My question is which of the wires supplies power to the fuel pump, is it the 2nd wire which is white with a blue stripe ( it looks yellow with blue stripe in image but it is white with blue stripe) to the right of the black with yellow stripe wire that flashed test light on for 1.5 second with key turning on? Does the white with blue strip wire ( if this is power wire) have same voltage as battery when key is in on position without vehicle running obviously. I wanted to double check because I was having some fluctuating readings on my MM and I replaced MM batteries that were corroded and the fuse in the MM was blown so I am hoping my test done a few days ago was accurate. When I tested the black with yellow stripe wire in the IPDM it flashed test light for 1.5 second like you said and the other end of this wire on FP connector also flashed for 1.5 second with test light, fuel pump fuse had battery voltage, my only concern is the ground test, the ohms were constantly fluctuating, I did get it to stay at 0 in the image I shared if you look back of the MM image with ohm readings but it took me moving it around a bit on the screw to get it to stop fluctuating. I just want to make sure this is the problem since I am ordering a pump today.
Should the 2nd wire have saame voltage as battery when key is on or only when the engine is running?

[VStar650CL]

Black/Yellow is pump power, Black is pump and FTT ground, Violet/Red is FTT (tank temperature) signal, Yellow/Blue is fuel level signal, Black/Pink is fuel level ground.

[sub0carfanatic]

Well I got the QX56 going, just got the fuel pump in today finally and got it installed and running. I cleaned the tank out some, there was hardly anything even worth cleaning it was really clean in the tank. No more engine DTC codes now. I ordered the special fuel pump removal tool, which was a waste of money and completely useless I must say, I ended up doing it the hard way, hammer and big flat head screwdriver. The tabs that the locking ring spin around were in the way of the ears on the tool to even work. I am just happy it's running again. Thank you so much for all your help VStar, I really appreciate your time.

[VStar650CL]

I ended up doing it the hard way, hammer and big flat head screwdriver.

Never do that. They make non-ferrous punches and chisels (usually brass) just for the purpose which don't throw sparks. Count yourself somewhat lucky.

Other than that, you're most welcome and great job!