Dsport asks the question...SR vs. KA? Will the debate finally be settled?

[KAbezon]

I was wandering through the magazine rack at the grocery store this past weekend and stumbled upon this gem from Dsport. Looks like they want to try and compare the two, and maybe end the debate that has raged on for almost 2 decades. I doubt this article or series of articles will help decide anything, fanbois will be fanbois after all, but it is kind of interesting to see how it all pans out.

"Since 1991, the great debate among Nissan’s S-chass is fanatics has been between the SR20DET and the KA24DE. On the one hand, the JDM chassis’s were equipped with the turbocharged SR engines, offering out-of-the-box forced-induction power from the factory. On the other, the USDM variant received the torquey-yet uninspiring KA24DE engine. Many felt short changed by Nissan’s decision to equip the 240SX US drivers with a truck engine. But as more tuners researched and developed the KA24DE, some began to appreciate the potential that this powerplant has to offer. To really get a feel for the contenders, a detailed comparison was in order. A variety of factors including cost, peak power and dyno graphs will be used to evaluate the merits of each engine. In the end, a greater understanding of these powerplants will guide the enthusiast’s tuning decisions.

These DSPORT project cars will undergo further development in the coming months in preparation for the contest that will settle the debate once and for all. The first contest will be held on the dyno for peak power and torque. The second contest will be held on the circuit. A professional driver will pilot each car in order to get unbiased and consistent lap times for each vehicle. The third contest will be held at the drag strip, measuring both elapsed time as well as trap speeds. The data gathered in these categories will determine the victor. The final portion of the challenge will pit the vehicle owners (Richard and Jeren) against one another in a grudge match on both the circuit and the strip to settle the score. Stay tuned."

My money is on the KA


Modified by KAbezon at 8:53 AM 12/22/2009

[numbnuts240]

there's a ka-t vs sr battle going on in gen chat.

[simmode1]

God, I hope their KA-T builder knows what he's doing. I'd hate to see a hole where the #3 piston used to be splashed across this magazine because of a crap tune.

[KAbezon]

The KA will be built by Jeren Walker, DSPORT's Technical editor.

This is what he said about the competition:

"Now representing the KA24, it's my goal to go above and beyond to take out the SR20 and Richard Fong. For the DSPORT readers who remember my past builds, you know I will be pushing this car all the way. I had major doubts about the KA platform at first. But after a few bolt-ons and some insight from other KA owners, my faith is restored. As for Richard, I feel sorry for him and his S15. At the end of this he will be having recurring nightmares of my S14 pulling away from him."

What makes me nervous is he doesn't really know anything about the KA. I hope he has someone giuding him that knows what he's doing otherwise, I feel sorry for that KA

[KAbezon]

Also some pics of the combatants:

Richard Fong, Feature Editor

Jeren Walker, Technical Editor

[sx moneypit]

Should be fun!My money is on the KA too!

[jbracy7]

In short no this debate will never end untell all the motors are used up and destroyed then a new debate will come and we will all forget that we even cared

[martins_240sx]

ka will win...even if he is an idiot, pound of boost to pound of boost the ka makes more power. it would be interesting to see how it would fare out if they were both put into a bracket were they couldnt exceed a power limit...say both cars could only have 350hp...im kinda biased though\/

[simmode1]

The KA will be built by Jeren Walker, DSPORT's Technical editor.

What makes me nervous is he doesn't really know anything about the KA. I hope he has someone giuding him that knows what he's doing otherwise, I feel sorry for that KA

Oh god... I hope he is either here on NICO's KA-T forum or KA-T.org with a Moderator holding his hand every step of the way. This guy needs to hit up Klattr, aka Mr. 400hp+stockblockKAMASTER...

[D-UNIT]

^^sweet valve cover! I used to hate E motors but now I think they are sexy. You'res especially.

[KAbezon]

I hope he does well, and I'm sure he will be getting help from someone who knows how to build them. I wouldn't be surprised if Ivan got a call to lend some expertise...and many others who know the KA and building them well

Also, I think this will not be decided by the engines themselves, but the suspension setup and the experience each driver has on a track...

Those 2 things have more of an impact of times, than how much power your making in all honesty, so I hope Jeren has that car dialed in, and knows how to drive better than the d!ck, I mean Richard in the S15

[sakuragi's-s13]

saw it on the dsport web, end of the article "see the mag for more info" bought the mag just for that article, SURPRISE, the same that was on the net. 6 buks to the trash. ***ing mag. GREAT comparison however

[S14toRPS13]

The KA already has an advantage with the bigger displacement. Obviously if it's properly built and tuned, it should make more power. Most 240 ownders don't even have the funds to fully build a KA or a SR. I need to get this magazine, but I'm very limited in my magazine selections since I'm in Korea.

[simmode1]

Also, I think this will not be decided by the engines themselves, but the suspension setup and the experience each driver has on a track...

I think they should have the car's suspension and whatnot setup the same if possible, so that you could truely see the difference in the performance of these two engines. In the end, I don't want any fanboys crying "Oh the X motor only won cuz the car's suspension/LSD/chassis/whatever was setup better!"

I need to get this magazine, but I'm very limited in my magazine selections since I'm in Korea.

I dunno man, magazines don't really publish much technical info that you can't find for free on some forum, IMO. Not since SCC folded, anyways...

[sr20power]

Straight out of the Dsport magazine:

Sr20det attack Strategy:Level the playing field w/ increased displacement & reinforcing shortblock internals - Resleeve block w/ ductile-iron sleeves bored to 90mm - Tomei powered 91mm stroker crankshaft - Carrillo connecting rods - Mahle forged-aluminum pistonsImprove airflow w/ performance cylinder head - Tomei powered hand-ported cylinder head w/ combustion chambers - Tomei powered oversized valves w/ dual springs & titanium retainers - Tomei powered 270 procam camshaftsLarger Turbocharger - Increase size of turbocharger to take advantage of increased displacement & higher flowing cylinder head - Peak boost top-mount manifold w/ ex. wastegate - New Intercooler piping

KA24DE Game Plan:Reinforce bottom end w/ stronger internals - Eagle Rods - JE pistoneImprove airflow through head - Port Flow Design ported cylinder head - Complete Supertech valvetrain - Brian Crower Stage 3 race camshafts - Xcessive Mfg. Intake manifoldTurbocharger - Peak Boost top-mount manifold - T3 Turbo - Intercooler & piping - AEM EMS ECU

Basically it will be in these categories:1. Dyno2. Circuit3. Drag Strip4. Grudge Match on Circuit & Drag Strip (Richard & Jeren)

My vote is w/ the SR =)

[Chris28]

Everyone knows that SR's are for fanboys and KA's suck.

JK, it will be interesting to see how this takes shape. In stock form the KA weighs more, but iron is a lot stronger than aluminum. If he can keep the number 3 rod inside the block then the KA is good to go. If the SR's head is built then that guy can benefit from higher revs. This is going to be a good read, I might actually follow this.

Edit: I just read the game plans.

The KA builder needs to ditch the Xcessive intake manifold and spend that money on larger injectors and/or more dyno time.

[Chris28]

I think they should have the car's suspension and whatnot setup the same if possible, so that you could truely see the difference in the performance of these two engines. In the end, I don't want any fanboys crying "Oh the X motor only won cuz the car's suspension/LSD/chassis/whatever was setup better!"

The s14 looks to be a bit more performance oriented, I'm willing to bet he has more invested in suspension.

They are both probably lowered on coilovers though, not one-off race setups. I bet the extent of modification is energy suspension bushings or something small like that. Weight is also going to be a factor. Does the s14 weigh more? That should only matter at the track, but that's where the real race takes place. Who cares about dyno numbers when the rest of the car isn't up to par.

[Future_gohan]

lolll dsport, i'm gonna have to start getting they're mags again

[D-UNIT]

SR attach strategy:90mm bore and 91mm stroke = $6000+^^ wow that almost looks like what my KA came with for FREE!!!!

[Murdered_T]

there needs to be a fund limit for it to be affective, unless we have unlimited funds.

But yes, there is a battle going on in Gen Chat about this now...

[pauliedrft]

I picked up the mag just for this reason (KA Vs. sr20 ) Seems to be a huge deal in our s-chassis community. Im probably going to get a subscription to there mag just for this reason . It should be great to see what happens .

[hilux30]

Block to block design I MUST go with SR, I've seen and worked on both and the bottom end of the KA is not designed to handle s*** loads of power. Yes the KA can make crazy HP but durability comes in mind. I'm not saying this cause I got and SR, personally I should of ditched both and went VQ...

[hotrod240sx]

imo if they bore and stroke the sr to get more displacement that kinda takes away from the debate. most people doesn't have the funds for the stroker kit. if they left the builds stock for stock but only with better parts inside, stock bore and stroke i mean, i would put my bet on the ka. however if they going to bore and stroke the sr, that could throw alot out the window. remember when you increase stroke you generally help torque and drop the redline a bit. i would start to wonder what the aluminum block could handle in that area, and if they gonna try to still turn all the rpm like they could before, i think the cast iron would be better for the stroker. also if they do a bore stroke combo in the sr, just think what the die hard ka people could say then, lol, well they bored and stroked that kinda defeats the purpose. again i think they should do a build like most people would do turbo the ka and if they do a build just upgrade component quality, more of a real life build, not fantasy. i'm sick of ultra high dollar builds from all the magazines then them call it budget or doing a comparison.just my 2 cents

[Lonismos14]

If tuned right truck motor! FTW

[homeslicej2]

I agree that "to level the playing field" by up-ing the displacement on the SR defeats the purpose, and I have an SR. There are so many other factors that will affect this "debate" as well: vehicle weights, suspension set-ups, tire choice, etc. I feel that for a truer comparo there needs to be two 240's with the same set-ups. Two S14 or S13's, same factory options, same suspension setups, same tires, same vehicle weights, etc. too many variables otherwise. Plus, each motor has it merits. I enjoy my SR, had I built my KA, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it too (even though it was a SOHC). I chose the SR bc at the time it made the most sense for my situation. I will be interested in seeing what they do and the final outcomes.

[S14toRPS13]

I agree that "to level the playing field" by up-ing the displacement on the SR defeats the purpose, and I have an SR. There are so many other factors that will affect this "debate" as well: vehicle weights, suspension set-ups, tire choice, etc. I feel that for a truer comparo there needs to be two 240's with the same set-ups. Two S14 or S13's, same factory options, same suspension setups, same tires, same vehicle weights, etc. too many variables otherwise. Plus, each motor has it merits. I enjoy my SR, had I built my KA, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it too (even though it was a SOHC). I chose the SR bc at the time it made the most sense for my situation. I will be interested in seeing what they do and the final outcomes.

I was thinking the same thing after reading the article from their website. Too many different variables to come to a good conclusion. I love seeing what the KA can do just as much as I love the SR. In the end, fully built SR's and KA's are completely different animals compared to what everyday people are driving on the streets. The debate will go on.

[spooled240]

this sounds really interesting but like some of you said there are many variables and no budget that I can see.

The main issue between ka-t and the sr route for 240 owners is the "bang for buck." Boring and stroking the SR kinda defeats the purpose of using the SR IMO...that engine will be a completely different animal than your typical SR.

If the SR is gonna get a bump up in displacement, I think it would only be fair for the KA to get a fully counter-weighted crankshaft, which shouldn't cost 6K and is will change the KA's powerband like a stroker kit would change the SR

I'm gonna be honest, I think the 1. dyno is going to the KA2. circuit is going to the SR3. drag strip is going to the KA

[simmode1]

After seeing their build plans... I immediately lost interest in this story. Both motors will be so drastically modded, that you can never really tell which is best (which is subjective in itself), instead only which combination of parts prevailed at the end of the day.

IMO, what they should have done was have two nearly identical 240's suspension/chassis/LSD-wise and let the stock motors go at it. The KA-T should have gotten an OEM rebuild with only a metal headgasket and ARP headstuds to help out, of course, including boost friendly stuff like bigger injectors and whatnot. The SR should just do what most SR guys do: upgrade injectors/turbo/cams, tune it and hit the street.

This is exactly what is going on the NICO's Gen forum: WD's mild KA-T vs Koshin's mild SR. Now that contest should have some actual value to it...zer...vs-sr

[Metal Angel]

SR wins by default due to a broken KA. That is what I say will happen. Not that I have a lot of experience but I see a lot of broken KATs on this forum. Seems like its not as easy as boosting a honda.

[kpodj61240]

After seeing their build plans... I immediately lost interest in this story. Both motors will be so drastically modded, that you can never really tell which is best (which is subjective in itself), instead only which combination of parts prevailed at the end of the day.

IMO, what they should have done was have two nearly identical 240's suspension/chassis/LSD-wise and let the stock motors go at it. The KA-T should have gotten an OEM rebuild with only a metal headgasket and ARP headstuds to help out, of course, including boost friendly stuff like bigger injectors and whatnot. The SR should just do what most SR guys do: upgrade injectors/turbo/cams, tune it and hit the street.

This is exactly what is going on the NICO's Gen forum: WD's mild KA-T vs Koshin's mild SR. Now that contest should have some actual value to it...zer...vs-sr

Both are nice engines....my KA treated me awesome....so does my SR but I guess I will back the engine I have now. SOO SR!