Dry sump idea, probably not a good one though... heh

[mtcookson]

Alright, finally getting under way on my Z32 VH swap and have been thinking of ideas how to do a dry sump setup for some more room to get the engine lower and such.

Anyways, tell me if you think this would work or would be too unsafe. I'm thinking of using some electric scavenge pumps (true, gear type pumps) to pull oil from a slim oil pan to an external oil container. From there, run the feed line to the stock oil pump basically using a connection from the oil inlet in the block that goes to an AN fitting on the outside of the oil pan. Hopefully that explains it alright.

Basically I'm just looking at an affordable way to make a dry sump setup as I'm short on money. Usually trying to do stuff like makes for a disaster waiting to happen but, maybe minus using electric pumps, I can't really see any issues coming up from running a setup like that. Comments, suggestions, flames?

[StarPD]

Alright, finally getting under way on my Z32 VH swap and have been thinking of ideas how to do a dry sump setup for some more room to get the engine lower and such.

Anyways, tell me if you think this would work or would be too unsafe. I'm thinking of using some electric scavenge pumps (true, gear type pumps) to pull oil from a slim oil pan to an external oil container. From there, run the feed line to the stock oil pump basically using a connection from the oil inlet in the block that goes to an AN fitting on the outside of the oil pan. Hopefully that explains it alright.

Basically I'm just looking at an affordable way to make a dry sump setup as I'm short on money. Usually trying to do stuff like makes for a disaster waiting to happen but, maybe minus using electric pumps, I can't really see any issues coming up from running a setup like that. Comments, suggestions, flames?

I suggest you do much reading before you embark on this journey. Dry sump lubrication can be beneficial in more ways than one, but there are a number of caveats. Be advised that doing if properly and safely isn't cheap or easy, so if you are short on money, it may not be a good idea for you. You sure don't want to cut a corner for the sake of a few bucks, and end up with a blown engine. You will need proven reliable components to make it work well and make your engine live.

Can it be done? Absolutely, but you had better know what you're doing before you start. Approach this idea carefully.

Do some research on how successful road racing teams engineer theirs. That will give you some ideas on how to proceed. If it looks too expensive, delay it for another time when you do have the money.

FWIW, I LOVE dry sumps. It's just not always practical to use them on ordinary street cars, or even low budget race cars.

Sorry, no flame intended. I don't think I told you what you wanted to hear, but I think I told you what you need to know.

Best of luck to you.

[mtcookson]

That's the one major problem I'm having... I haven't been able to find any good info on them at all. Moroso had some decent info on their site but still nothing in depth as to explain exactly how everything should work. Do you happen to know of any good sites with some more info on them?

[StarPD]

That's the one major problem I'm having... I haven't been able to find any good info on them at all. Moroso had some decent info on their site but still nothing in depth as to explain exactly how everything should work. Do you happen to know of any good sites with some more info on them?

Sorry I can't help you on this. It's been too many years since I was involved in it. Not sure if a google search would turn up anything useful, but it's worth a try. I hope you find something helpful before you tackle it.It should be a great setup once you have it figured out and executed.

[mtcookson]

Finally found some decent info online. I think I had the basic idea down pretty well minus the electric pump.

I finally found some decent info on flow rates and such and the electric pumps definitely don't flow near enough. However... I did find a Supra guy running a heavily built 2JZ built to rev to 10.5k RPM using a setup like the idea I had but using a mechanical scavenge pump. He was still using the stock oil pump for the feed to the engine like I was thinking so it seems like it would work out pretty well. They were having pressure issues but it was due to some extreme modifications they did to the journals to modify how the oiling system works for the higher RPM they were aiming for.

Soooo... I think the idea would actually work really well, I just need to find a good external scavenge pump and figure out a good oil pan design which shouldn't be too hard. I didn't really have any doubts that it would work, minus the electric pump, but now I'm very confident. I'll start collecting parts, do some testing, and definitely post up some results if it works out as I think it will work very well and be relatively cheap compared to what most dry sump systems cost.

Really the biggest reason for trying to figure out a good way to do this was because I'm not sure how well I can modify the stock oil pan setup for the Z32 since the Z uses a rear sump design and the VH uses a front sump and I definitely don't want any oil issues. The dry sump setup really seems simple enough so I figured that'd be a good route to go. Now just to find good oil pan designs.

[dsagers]

If you are going to the trouble of setting up a mechanical external scavenge pump, why not just buy a three stage dry sump pump and eliminate the stock oil pump altogether? A three stage dry sump pump is more than enough for our engines.

[Mettler]

Just a guess but I'd say that part of the reason is $$$$$$$$$

Pump like that cost heaps!

[mtcookson]

Yeah, those things are very expensive and since I'm not building an all out race car its not really necessary. The stock oil pump will work just fine... I'm just changing the way the oil is stored.

[StarPD]

Yeah, those things are very expensive and since I'm not building an all out race car its not really necessary. The stock oil pump will work just fine... I'm just changing the way the oil is stored.

Another benefit of a dry sump, one I consider important is that the oil can never surge completely away from the pickup and leave the oil pump picking up air at high revs in hard turns. It doesn't take much oil starvation to wipe a bearing or eat a camshaft.

If I get a chance, I'll check out some of the racing equipment sites to see of I can find a good scavenge pump for you.

Modifying the existing sump shouldn't be too big of a project.

[mtcookson]

Yeah, that was the big thing I was worried about modifying the stock oil pan. I may not do a lot of racing with it (am planning on some) but I definitely drive my cars hard, very hard, almost everyday.

[dsagers]

Before deciding, take a look at eBay.

3 stage dry sump pumps in nice condition can be purchased for less than $200, sometimes the 3 stage pumps are cheaper than a single stage or scavenge pump, just because they are more popular and there are tons of them floating around.

[mtcookson]

Yeah, I've been noticing some decent prices on ebay. I'll definitely be keeping track of them on there.

[ultrapulse]

I have mounted a rear sumped vh45 into a z32 and wasnt too bad job. Sounds much easier than building a lube system from scratch. Also I was careful in the design re bafflling. I havent been online for a while, but the link and pics should be on the forum here somewhere, as clearance was a prob and I ended up doing the job twice:). So have a read if you find it.You dry sump design sounds fine to me if you can sort a suitable scavenging pump cheap. I am running factory pump stuff, but bypassing the pumps relief valve and using an externally mounted filter and adjustable releif so I can adjust the oil pressure externally via an allen key and locknut. It's the best cheap simple system i could think of to do the job.

[dsagers]

Is it this thread?

zerothread?id=213999

[ultrapulse]

Yes thats it! Cheers.