Dry Sump Conversion

[seang]

Hello, after seeing some serious projects like Yellowcar's Datsun 510, (just one example), I have become intrigued by dry sump oil systems. The pan alone would cost around 650 dollars US. I would like some serious input on this, is it really just too much overkill?
Modified by seang at 9:31 PM 7/15/2009

[seang]

I'm gonna answer this one myself. A dry sump system is not simple. They cost alot, but if you've got alot already into the car, it might be worth it. I read something whilst researching today about hellish dry starts after sitting for any period of time, whether there is truth in that, I do not know. They appear to need lots of hoses for lots of different stages. Z06 corvettes have them stock, as do some other sports cars. I am a fan of simplicity, and believe that when you start going through and trying to perfect the car, you will never reach the end, (because there is no end), and run into compromise, after compromise, after compromise, and so on. My biggest fear is not being able to be content with what is good "enough" to get the job done. I am obsessed with the perfect way to do something, and its killing me.

[ravera]

Which motor are you running? Dry sump the L16 is actually pretty simple, and depending on the pan, you can get away with a 3-stage pump... But then again, with the L series you wont ever really need a dry sump unless you're revving the motor through the ceiling or pulling constant G's on a track. Getting a turbo oil pump out of a 280ZXT will keep the L 4 banger more than happy on 99% of applications.

[seang]

The only engine I have is the ka24e that came stock in my 4x4 D21, and thats not getting a dry sump. I was being very general about different engines here, more along the lines of motor swaps where oil pan clearance is an issue. BTW, arent all ka24 oil pumps the same as the Turbo 280zx l28et?

[ravera]

IIRC the DE engine had a gerotor pump on the eccentric of the crankshaft. I don't know honestly about E pumps but if it's driven off the pintle shaft that drives the dizzy and sits at the bottom of the front cover, than odds are it's the same yeah. To be honest, the big thing about dry sumps are finding the main oil galleries and figuring out a decent way to tap them as in prefect theory, you'd want priority oiling to each main and a bunch of scavenge and return lines keeping the block in a vacuum. This is handy because with the pan, you'll need two scavenge lines and there is only one main gallery in the block, so most nissan motors can be plumbed up for dry sump in no time at all. We don't have three priority Main Galleries , nor do we have two semi-isolated heads (as far as oil return goes) that would require use to use the 10 foot long 800 stage oil pumps you see in pro-stock drag racing and NASCAR.

[Red coupe]

I think they are primarily used to fight oil starvation in corners...

Unless you spend a lot of time on R-comps and have a well sorted chassis I can't see it being worth it (and even then...)

If your main concern is startups I am almost positive there are easier solutions out there to prime the system before starting. Can't point you towards anything specific but I swear I have heard of contraptions to store oil pressure until next start up...

In all honesty I am going to say that a maintained KA will run a damn good amount of miles, and another KA-E is so cheap that I can't see it being worth spending more then the cost of a replacement engine on protecting the engine.

[almost heaven]

+1. Only race cars or sports car that might be used on a race track need dry sumps, as noted by prior post. Modern oil filters have check valves so they retain oil and enable fairly quick delivery of oil from the pan to the motor. I wouldn't worry about not having one unless you're racing. And then, I'd add an extra 1/2 quart as a safety margin rather than go to the 4 and trouble of adding a dry sump. Most weekend racers don't have dry sumps either.

[almost heaven]

I forgot - I know a few folks that use an "Accusump". They are a good alternative if you are concerned.

[Kronus]

While I realize this thread has a few months on it, I noticed some points were missing.

I see several cons of a dry sump system listed, but only a few of the pros. I'm going to fill them in.

-Reclaiming horsepower. A wet sump system can lose power due to windage losses, the crankshaft hitting oil at high speed.

-You can dictate your oil capacity

-Increased oil capacity by using a larger external reservoir leads to cooler oil

-The ability to lower the engine in the car far more than stock, thus lowering the overall COG

-The advantages in sustained high lateral corner loads has been mentioned

-Despite the added complexity of the system, have the parts located externally means it's easier to maintain and replace

[RBbugBITme]

-Increased oil capacity by using a larger external reservoir leads to cooler oil

-The ability to lower the engine in the car far more than stock, thus lowering the overall COG

-Despite the added complexity of the system, have the parts located externally means it's easier to maintain and replace

And some questions to ask....

- Is he over heating his oil with an oil cooler already?- How low can the engine go when the bottom of the transmission sticks out pretty far?-It is FAR more expensive to maintain. How much money you got? You said the pan is $650 (overpriced) but you're off the shelf pump will be around $1200+ if you can figure out how to fit an off the shelf pump and your lines, fittings, and tank will come close to doubling that. I've seen more than one pump rotor bite the dust too and when that happens you need to take everything apart and clean it all out. You don't have to deal with this with an oem oils system so why bother unless you NEED it.