dropping in a short block

[spider_slayer]

well, the head is off of my sr20det project and i am currently having some work done on it. but tonight as i am driving work on the 135 in my daily driver('92 s13) i hear a ticking... damnit. temp and idle are fine. i get off and drive back home on the 135 and the ticking gets louder and louder the whole way until it shound like someone is shaking rocks in a can. this leads me to believe that i have eathier spun a bearing or bent every single valve in the head. since the latter is highly unlikely i'm gonna go with spun a bearing.

now that you have back ground i need some input. i am gonna go to the junk yard tommorow and buy a shortblock to get me buy until i am finnished rebuilding eathier on of the 240's. anyway i'm open to any suggestions and helpful hints.

- 92-98 ka24de's are the same right? - to drop the FUBAR engine i will need to: drop oil pan to witness the carnage drain coolant disconnect all hoses label and disconnect wiring harness losen from motor mounts disconnect exaust- is it easier to take out the whole block or should i take off exaust and intake main's? (i know its better to drop it in with them on simply cause once its in your home free.)- since its a short block would you guys recommend pulling the transmission and fitting it to the block then dropping back in or leaving the transmission mounted? then do it all in reverse

its been about a year and a half since i have actually worked on a ka24de. i spend all of my time and money doting on the sr. and now the ka has failed me at the worst possiable time . i have the fsm so i shouldn't miss any steps. i'm really jsut looking for some helpful hints. i assume that dropping in a ka shortblock is just like droping in an sr right? also, i'm sure this is a very poorly written post but i'm a little tired and frustrated right now.

thanks in advancemike w.

[Chezedik]

The easiest way is to take out the driveshaft, loosen all mounts and pull engine+trans, then do all work outside. If you just spun a bearing, you can loosen mounts, jack up engine by trans. Loosen pan, remove sump, take out pan, and change rod bearings. #3 is common. Dropping in a shortblock is easier than an SR, since you don't need to rewire, but a long block would be worlds easier. I only know this because I just popped out the pistons to fix a compression issue, and I didn't want to pull the motor.

[spider_slayer]

well, i'd like to JUST change a bearing... but from what i heard i think i minght have snapped or bent a rod as well. it jsut started as a ticking and got worse and worse till it sounded like a can full of rocks.

also, did you have a hydraulic lift when changing your bearing out? i couldn't imagine doing that on my back....thanks for the quick reply. also, anyone know of a good site to get a cheap rebuilt ka shortblock?

[Chezedik]

Nope, did it on my back. Do a compression test, if you are terribly low on one cyl, then you may have a rod problem. But if, your compression is good, but you have a rod knock, change the bearing.

[spider_slayer]

cool, i'll do that for sure tommorow. but i was also under the understanding that if a bearing has been spun them the crank would also need to be machined becuase a scored surface would jsut foul the bearing again. is this wrong?

edit: are you attending pitt state? i'm a student out at wsu right now.

[Chezedik]

Junior in Automotive Service Management. There is a good chance, but you will at least know, huh? It may save you a little trouble over pulling the whole engine+trans. I had a friend who came from there.

[spider_slayer]

There is a good chance, but you will at least know, huh? It may save you a little trouble over pulling the whole engine+trans.

thats a real good point. so compression check first then drop oil pan, witness the horror, drop oil pan assembly and check bearings. i guess with the pan assembly i would be able to see if any of the rods are messed up visually huh.

thats cool your actually going into cars as a profession. its jsut a hobby to me. but at times like this i'm glad so i don't have to take it to a ase certified mechanic and drop 1200 for all kinds of stuff i may or may not need.

finance and real estate for me. got 3 more years though.

[DjPantsSpecR]

i doubt you spun a bearing, but it is common, and a bunch of KA guys here will bet you its the number three bearing too....

Chez your nuts for doing all the work with the motor in the car, i wouldnt be able to bend my neck or back for a week, but you can definately do it. i would just pull the motor out, but it seems like i pull a motor out of one of my 240s at least once a month....

One of the easist ways to check for that spun rod bearing is to try adn crank the motor around by hand with a ratchet. if that bearing is infact spun, its gonna be a mother****er to even pull it through a few strokes. so if its not you can breathe a little easier

[Chezedik]

Yes, I am nuts, I just got the trans back on a week before, and didn't feel like renting a hoist to do it all over again. I would buy a hoist, but I don't have anywhere to keep it.

[DjPantsSpecR]

ah.... see i dont have a hoist, i use the same thing my dad used back when he was a youngster to pull motors

its a piece of scaffolding(sp) with two wooden boards across the top. then a come-a-long is chained to that board, and then that is chained to a piece of slotted metal, possibly a corner of an old metal shelf, and the chain ends are run to the motor.

its kinda scary sometimes, but it was free, and it helps stain the house....

[Chezedik]

Sounds like it should work.

[spider_slayer]

well, i jsut slept most of the day today since classes start tommorow. but i shopped around for long blocks and found a rebuilt one for $300 which isn't bad at all. w00t! but i also went out and was looking around for and oil leaks and such and couldn't find any.

i doubt you spun a bearing, but it is common, and a bunch of KA guys here will bet you its the number three bearing too....

what makes you think i didn't spin a bearing? the only other thing that i would think that could make a noise like that are the valves and my timing is fine. i'll do the crank thing wendsday cause its supose to be 60 outside. i'll also do a compression test to see whats up. i'll also probally pull the head as well to see whats happening inside the engine.

[DjPantsSpecR]

because, a spun bearing doesnt sound like acan of rocks and then it gradually gets louder. a spun bearing sounds first like a belt squeek (very brief, most folks will never even hear it, unless they spin one on start up, like i have) then it sounds like a big beefy hammer hitting an anvil

i've spun bearings in two different motors, same sound

valves wont even make a noise if they are contacting anything, or at least its hardly necessary, and f you did bend valves, chances are your motor wont run at all.

i bent 12. you could crank that thing forever and only get a pop or two, but no running.

maybe its something obscure like a timing chain issue, perhaps a guide has snapped off somewhere. the upper guide is the first to go, the sde one rarely goes, adn ona motor i had a lower plastic one just about to go before i replaced it

but maybe you spun abearing, just go outside and see if its really really hard to crank around by hand

[Chezedik]

The KA is known for the lower tensioner failure as well. It's like, 35-40 brand new. But you may as well replace the set (350). But then you can get a motor for that, so it's up to you.

[spider_slayer]

well, i hand cranked the engine today. no hesitation of any sort. but the sound is still prevelant. it is alot like the hammer/anvil sound that dj described(rocks in a can is a bad discription i guess) its sounds like metal hitting on metal with each revolution. i took off the valve cover off and looked around for irregularties. nothing. i even took off the upper timing chain guide and it didn't even look that worn. took out the spark plugs and they are all fine, not covered in oil or burnt coolant. but i noticed i am leaking oil....kinda bad. the entire underside of the engine is caked in fresh oil. also i checked the oil and its about 3mm below the L mark. it looks like its leaking from what ever the pumbing that is coming out of the block right under the oil filter.

i gonna go a compression test tommorow when i can get one. i was also gonna drop the oil pan but i noticed its jsut one giant pan unlike the sr. to do i HAVE to drop the suspension to get it off?

any more suggestions on what could be wrong? how would i check the lower tensioner? and is there an easy to get the oil pan off?

Modified by spider_slayer at 3:53 PM 1/19/2006
Modified by spider_slayer at 3:56 PM 1/19/2006

[spider_slayer]

well, me and my friends just picked up an engine and have begun pulling the motor. the upper harness is off, and most of the lower harness is off. anyone know how many plugs are on the lower harness? i have the alternator and started unhooked and their grounds. what else an i missing

also, what do you guys suggest i do about the p/s pump and a/c? disconnect the lines and pull the entire assembly or jsut disconnect the lines?