Driveability - winter conditions

[ABRB228]

We bought a 2008 Altima Sedan 3.5 last year. I have never in all my 35 years of driving experience, especially Northern Canadian driving experience, found a car that is so unstable and dangerous when driving on highway surfaces that are not bare and dry. And, I can't help but think that there must be a better solution than "buy winter studded tires". I have always used all-season tires with an open tread design, and never had this kind of driving experience.... Yesterday, the highways were terrible, unplowed surfaces, snow build up, etc - I was so convinced that I must have had a flat tire or tires that I pulled over and inspected each tire - the car was handling as if I had one or both back tires flat! All over the road, constantly correcting for sway in the rear. Tonight while driving home, the highways had been cleared and were mostly dry, but it was cold. The car was handling fine until... I could clearly see some patchy black ice ahead of me and the moment the car hit it (going straight and at highway speed limit) the rear end breaks loose and wants to sway. I have driven many, many other vehicles both front and rear wheel drive in these same undesireable driving conditions and never felt such instability...Is this common among these cars; do other owners have similar experiences?
Modified by ABRB228 at 9:29 PM 12/25/2008

[xeene]

was your steering wheel vibrating when you were driving on the highway?

[ABRB228]

was your steering wheel vibrating when you were driving on the highway?

No vibrations - the rims were clean and had no snow or ice build up causing balancing problems.

As an update, I'm becoming convinced that it is a problem with the tires - the tread design on these 17" tires is not open and there is no place for the loose snow/slush to be displaced and most likely while driving in the loose snow/slush the snow was actually snowballing on the tires, then letting go which caused the constant rear-end sway. Unfortunately this does not explain the rear-end breaking loose on the patchy black ice - I plan to talk with the local service people about a 4-wheel alignment about this before blaming the tires.

[GrantM]

Well its interesting that you posted this. Just two days ago I ran into the same thing with my 2007 3.5 SE Altima while driving on an icy highway for several hours. The car rocked back and forth like a boat on rough water. I also thought a tire was flat or the lug nuts were coming off. Im 52 years old and have had countless numbers of cars but never have I experienced anything like this. When I came to a dry patch the car was fine. I also thought there may be some feature with regard to compansation when one side slips and the other is trying to make up for the spin difference in the wheel. The worst part was other cars where zipping by me while I was doing all I could to keep the vehicle in a straight line.

[ESP]

Same problems in my 2.5...this is the worst car I've driven in the winter!!!

[GrantM]

I couldn't agree more. I am going to call the dealership tomorrow to see if this is a common problem and how to have it corrected if possible.

[eddie2.5]

worst car ever in the snow..... lucky my wife has a honda

[joker350gt]

The tires might be the problem.

[ESP]

Maybe...

...but the problem existed with my Hankook W400's, and now with my Michelin X-Ice's. The Michelins I bought used and are at about 50% (and yet they're still significantly better than the W400's), but it's still pretty wobbly at 80km/h and above on really icy surfaces. I'll be picking up a set of brand new Hankook W409's sometime in the new year so I'll see if that's any improvement at all.

[eight3six]

I was driving on some snowy roads and just going slow around bends my *** end wanted to kick out. Didnt have that problem in my 06 2.5, but my 07 3.5 SL is just yea.....o well ha.

[marlin29311]

My guess is the problem is two fold - tires and weight distribution.

Tires - these things blow worse than any other tire I've seen. Upgrading these to something with a better tread design will help a lot.

Weight - I know the coupe has a 67/33 weight distribution, so the sedan must be very close to that - meaning that there isn't a lot of weight on the rear of the car. You might find it advantageous to throw a sandbag or a 45lb weight in the trunk to add some down-push on the rear wheels (sounds like a rwd, doesn't it?)...

[ESP]

Marlin, that's what I thought too! So, when my fiancee and I drove out to BC to visit my folks just a few days ago we made sure to load absolutely everything that had serious weight to it in the trunk. My camera gear weighs at least 40lbs and out suitcase comes in at around the same...yet we were still having problems with the rear end coming out on icy patches... *sigh*

[GrantM]

I also have to discount the light back end as a probably cause we were travelling with two other adults in the back seat and a trunk full of luggage. I have yet to hear back from the dealership.

[macbth]

My Altima did the same thing - the worst in snow-I then put on snow tires --Blizzaks from Goodyear - there are also a number of other good ones.Also buy new rims for the snow tires- and go from a 17" rim and tire to a 16" rim and tireIt's the pizza pie cutter effect --You will think you are driving a four wheel drive car..You will not think twice about driving in snow again. It's now fun.
Modified by macbth at 12:20 PM 1/1/2009

[ESP]

^^Erm...I am driving on winter tires on 16" rims......

[macbth]

^^Erm...I am driving on winter tires on 16" rims......

ESP,

Go to http://www.tirerack.com/Put in your car and go to the boards (feedback) about your winter tires.These are personal(real world) experiences.

[beeristasty]

What is the size of your winter tires?

[ESP]

Alrighty...so I was driving back across the mountains today and the weather was absolutely craptastic. I kept fighting the car trying to keep it straight. At a straight stretch of road I decided to test a theory I had...instead of holding the wheel loosely and adjusting to the feedback of the road like I'll usually do, I decided to keep my arms stiff and lock the steering wheel dead straight. After less than five seconds the back end started swerving to the left. There were no crosswinds and the road was level...icy, but level.My conclusion: our cars are crap in real winter conditions.

ESP,

Go to http://www.tirerack.com/Put in your car and go to the boards (feedback) about your winter tires.These are personal(real world) experiences.

Thanks mate, but I've been using TireRack for a couple of years now and as much as I appreciate their countless reviews, different tires will behave differently on different vehicles...I've come to learn that with the coupe! Also, I'm skeptical as to how different people have come to define "winter".

What is the size of your winter tires?

I believe they're 225/60R16. They're a tad larger than stock so in theory they should behave better in snow and ice.

[macbth]

"I believe they're 225/60R16. They're a tad larger than stock so in theory they should behave better in snow and ice."

It's the opposite - the thiner the winter tire the more likely it will cut thru the snow and grab the road surface. .

You want wide tread on sand so that you will not sink.

[ESP]

"I believe they're 225/60R16. They're a tad larger than stock so in theory they should behave better in snow and ice."

It's the opposite - the thiner the winter tire the more likely it will cut thru the snow and grab the road surface. .

You want wide tread on sand so that you will not sink.

Yes...and no. A narrower tire will be better through deep snow, and a wider tire will be better on ice. That being said, the difference between a 215 and 225 treadwidth would hardly account for how crappy the drive is on slick roads. Besides, the problems we're having are related to icy roads at highway speeds so a wider tire should prove beneficial rather than a hindrance.

I think you also misunderstood what I meant when I said "larger"... I was referring to the sidewall profile being slightly taller. A taller sidewall profile is better under all conditions because it allows more flex between the treads resulting in better overall grip on most surfaces.

@ GrantM: Have you heard back from the dealership yet? I'm really curious of what they have to say... l really can't believe our cars were so badly designed for real winter driving.

[ABRB228]

Sorry for not contributing further to my own thread -I'll be sure to visit a little more regularly. First, I really want to express my appreciation to those who have taken the time to read and comment. To be honest, I wasn't expecting this level of agreement - and consequently I must admit that I'm disappointed to hear that these cars are not getting a great rating when compared to other cars in adverse winter driving situations. Although the 67/33 weight distribution is a good point, the car (in this case) was loaded to capacity in the trunk with Christmas gifts and we had our 2 older teenagers in the back seat.

I'm sure that the dealer isn't going to be very helpful, but if Nissan is listening and enough concern is raised, they might, (just maybe!) take these concerns seriously. I guess we all should keep our eye on the comparative frequency of accidents, skids, roll-overs, etc in the next little while.

I really do like this car (except for winter driving) so I guess I owe it a second chance by putting on a real decent set of snows, but I'm not holding my breath. Ontario just made studs legal again if the car is registered in Northern Ontario.

Can anyone confirm the facts on this...Do late model Dodge Caravan rims fit the 07-08 Altima? I read somewhere that they were a very close match and I figure I could find a set pretty easily at the local auto recycling yards. Presuming that the minivan rims came in 16" ? I will try to research this one out, but if someone else knows for certain - that would be great.Thanks.

[xeene]

2003-2008 caravan 16" wheels have same bolt pattern and offset as altima wheels, so yes they'll fit.

[ABRB228]

2003-2008 caravan 16" wheels have same bolt pattern and offset as altima wheels, so yes they'll fit.

hmm...that's good news - I guess I'll go shopping. Is there any issue around the size of the centre hole on these rims that you might be aware of?

[xeene]

that i do not know.