drifting in an automatic

[240SicknessX]

Drifting with an automatic, can be diffucult, and i wouldnt ever feel like i have complete 100 % controll of the engine and what its doing. It just doesnt feel natural at all.

Plus, driving like that on an automatic transmission, destroys the **** out of it, and cant take the same abuse as long as a manual can. At least with a good driver. .

I say Get the 5 speed swap before you get an SR20 and learn how to drive the Manual and become a better driver before you add more power. Manual transmission are what are at the top of racing, as far as street cars in track, autoX, drag, and drift. Sure things can be done in an automatic, where is the fun and skill in that? ( no offense to sickness )

Just two pedals! It doesnt take much effort.

about having control over the engine, well when im at a track/practise/competition i dont ever have a problem with the car not being in the correct gear for what i want it to do.

the automatic transmission that are the in 91+ have the same internals as the skyline gts. WDRacing has claimed 400hp from his skyline with the automatic transmission with the help of a transmission cooler to extend the life. as for drifting, tearing up the transmission, i havnt killed it while drifting, i started having problems with my torque converter way after the previous compeition that i entered. i wont say that it wasnt from drifting but im not going to ignor the fact that i did slide with it.

yes the auto is a lil borning at times but its what i have and gets me around. I would have to disagree with you about the drag racing part that a manual is better. Have you ever been in a auto boosted rwd car and left the line at 12psi on slicks? You can consistantly get quicker 60ft times and never have to worry about missing a gear. Ivan@SPracing is building a automatic kat to compete in the turbo4 class, and the virtualworks supra is an auto (8.89).

and really, have you drifted an auto before? i dont know what you do or your techniques, but take away your clutch kick, and ability to keep your revs up while sliding with ebrake to extend slide. and add in about .5 seconds for throttle responce, now think about how much of an advantatge you have.

[Mojo_49]

i just say if u could drift with a automatic id say it would be of luck. And u would be lucky if u didnt crash after u get the extra power fromwhen it shifts up without controlling.

[240SicknessX]

im pretty quick and easy with my throttle when it comes to downshifts, there are some times when i enter a strait slide around 68/69mph and im slidin until the 30mph, ill downshift in mid slide and finish the slide in first around the corner and try to upshift at the exit.

ps i also said that i keep it in 1 or 2 depending on speed.

[Kansei240sx]

If you shift your automatic, thats really hard on synchros and the transmission alltogether, If you only use drive there will be that one point in time where you needed to down shift, and you wont be able to and thats the point where i would go.... "Oh ****!"

lol

[masticatingcow]

and really, have you drifted an auto before? i dont know what you do or your techniques, but take away your clutch kick, and ability to keep your revs up while sliding with ebrake to extend slide. and add in about .5 seconds for throttle responce, now think about how much of an advantatge you have.

Of course if you hypothetically raped a manual transmission of all its performance benefits, the automatic WOULD be pretty competitive, but that's about as valid as racing someone who INSISTS that you keep your e-brake partially engaged during a race to compensate for his lack of horsepower. IT'S RETARDED. Also, if you think that a half second delay for "throttle response," which is really the transmission shifting gears and not a throttle issue at all, isn't a big deal during a drift, then you're drifting headlong into wrapping your car around the nearest parking lot pylon.

the automatic transmission that are the in 91+ have the same internals as the skyline gts. WDRacing has claimed 400hp from his skyline with the automatic transmission with the help of a transmission cooler to extend the life.

So what? Skyline transmissions die too. Just because it's the same part number as on the mighty Skyline doesn't mean you can't break it.

Ivan@SPracing is building a automatic kat to compete in the turbo4 class, and the virtualworks supra is an auto (8.89).

No one cares. Leave dragging out of this.

about having control over the engine, well when im at a track/practise/competition i dont ever have a problem with the car not being in the correct gear for what i want it to do.

Are you suggesting that you have control over the engine in an automatic, and then using the idea that you're never in the wrong gear to back it up? Do you know what the difference between an ENGINE and a TRANSMISSION is? Being in the right gear has NOTHING to do with control over the engine.

All that said, people who can REALLY drift in an automatic deserve some props. But then again, people who can REALLY drift in a manual deserve AT LEAST the same... drifting is hard as hell in a manual, too. In a manual car, you get a clutch pedal and a stick shift, but not an extra foot or hand to control them. In an automatic, you could go your entire day without taking a hand off the e-brake. So, before you mad tyte automatic drifters go off on how hardcore you are, just remember that the person drifting in the manual behind or in front of you is a better driver. Sometimes they might not be faster, but they are always better. If you disagree, go look at all the vaunted benefits to an automatic; they are compensations for driver error or imprecision.

[240SicknessX]

If you shift your automatic, thats really hard on synchros and the transmission alltogether, If you only use drive there will be that one point in time where you needed to down shift, and you wont be able to and thats the point where i would go.... "Oh ****!"

lol

ive done the oh **** routine before, autos dont have sychros. they have some other werid stuff that ill look up later.

masticatingcow, have you ever drifted before? not just squeeling your tires around a corner? ill respond back to your some what valid points later tonight.

[240SicknessX]

when i said .5 seconds throttle responce i ment the time before the torque converter is totally locked from decel, a auto transmission even in 1 or 2 isnt totally locked 1:1 with the engine. I was not refering to the time for a downshift.

I never said that the auto transmission was bullet proof. i simply said that it was also placed in a turbo car which required more power. This would add some durability when it is mated with the ka. its not as fragile as you might think, yet i know everything has the chance to break.

Are you suggesting that you have control over the engine in an automatic, and then using the idea that you're never in the wrong gear to back it up? Do you know what the difference between an ENGINE and a TRANSMISSION is? Being in the right gear has NOTHING to do with control over the engine.

Ummm ok, I do know the difference between a transmission and an engine. NO I don’t have total control over the engine of my car, I cant depress a clutch pedal and keep my revs high staying in the power band while I shift or in mid drift. But I can keep my car in an acceptable gear to where I don’t have the problem with the car downshifting in mid drift without my consent. On a local track I would love to stay in second gear the whole time no matter what my rpms are at, but I have adapted of the characteristics of my auto and I have to change my lines and throttle imputs and where I turn so I don’t get in a bad situation to screw me up.

All that said, people who can REALLY drift in an automatic deserve some props. But then again, people who can REALLY drift in a manual deserve AT LEAST the same... drifting is hard as hell in a manual, too. In a manual car, you get a clutch pedal and a stick shift, but not an extra foot or hand to control them. In an automatic, you could go your entire day without taking a hand off the e-brake. So, before you mad tyte automatic drifters go off on how hardcore you are, just remember that the person drifting in the manual behind or in front of you is a better driver. Sometimes they might not be faster, but they are always better. If you disagree, go look at all the vaunted benefits to an automatic; they are compensations for driver error or imprecision.

Ok ill give you this, the first 2 weeks of learning how to drive a manual car can be involved, learning how long inbetween shifts to properly let out the pedal so there is no disruption entering the next gear and such yada yada ect ect and w\e else there is. Well yes there might be more things to think about when “drifting” a manual car, but the benefits outweigh the costs of having to think about what you are doing. Its all about learning how to slide what things to do how to do them, after a while you will get to know you car and its characteristics and being in the situation where it requires clutch and shifting work should come naturally to you. The added functionality of 5spd is a greater advantage after you have gotten the hang of different entrance and exit techniques.

At a track where there is a set course, the only time when I use the ebrake is if I strait enter a corner that I want to slide no using any momentum or throttle work from the past corner. Like in my video, I only used the ebrake because the road entrance is only 2 narrow lanes and I was goin about 62mph. Once in tried to just throw the wheel around with out anything but the steering to get sideways and I underestimated the amount of initial oversteer and I spun, that was a first for me, that type of initiation technique.

Until you have tried drifting a auto and have delt with the disadvantages of it, I don’t want to continue this “talk” about how a auto is easier to drift, the only thing that ill give you is that it might have allowed me to concentrate more on the steering work at first when I was learning. I have personally drifted a s13 5spd with the same suspension set up and I was able to accomplish much more with the 5spd then I do with my auto. I have my personal experience to go off of, and im sure a lot more people will agree with me when I say that an auto is harder to get sideways.

[masticatingcow]

Of course if you hypothetically raped a manual transmission of all its performance benefits, the automatic WOULD be pretty competitive, but that's about as valid as racing someone who INSISTS that you keep your e-brake partially engaged during a race to compensate for his lack of horsepower. IT'S RETARDED.

The added functionality of 5spd is a greater advantage after you have gotten the hang of different entrance and exit techniques.

I have personally drifted a s13 5spd with the same suspension set up and I was able to accomplish much more with the 5spd then I do with my auto.

I'm pretty sure we agree here.

when i said .5 seconds throttle responce i ment the time before the torque converter is totally locked from decel, a auto transmission even in 1 or 2 isnt totally locked 1:1 with the engine. I was not refering to the time for a downshift.

Point made and taken. Thanks for clearing it up.

I never said that the auto transmission was bullet proof. i simply said that it was also placed in a turbo car which required more power. This would add some durability when it is mated with the ka. its not as fragile as you might think, yet i know everything has the chance to break.

Skyline transmissions die too. Just because it's the same part number as on the mighty Skyline doesn't mean you can't break it.

I agree.

My bad for calling you out about the engine and transmission thing, but you have to admit your logic was pretty weak. In fact, I'll just take your admission that you do not have the same kind of control over the engine revs as such. Fair?

And as far as which is more difficult, I think we can come to a mutual understanding that it may not be a matter of difficulty, but difference. These really is less to driving auto than manual; you said it and I agree completely. =But does that not imply a greater difficulty? Admittedly, I have never drifted an automatic, but I don't plan to. There is very little anyone can say to me to convince me that it is a "better" decision. Auto HAS ITS BENEFITS, but, I maintain, and think you'll agree, not in drift. LOL, and I have been drifting in my 5-speed.

Anyway, what I mean by difference is what the driver can or should do to accomplish a drift. I think you'll agree (again) that the techniques used to drift and automatic are different than those used in a manual. I hardly use my e-brake, for instance, and rely more on my clutch and gear shifts. This is in and of itself a weakness, but again, a different one, right?

Consider yourself a capable driver if you can drive appropriately in both an automatic and a manual. I'm sure, since you are able to DRIFT in a manual as well, that you are aware of the high degree of coordination needed to drift in a manual. There are LOTS of things going on, and LOTS of things to pay attention to, even if some of it becomes second nature.

To tell the truth, I have to admit that I am something of a purist. I do not consider automatics viable performance machines 99% of the time. Of course, there is the occassional exception, which I welcome, but that's how I generally feel. I consider traction control a handicapping feature and Tiptronic transmissions manual for wimps. I mean, if you can't shift, don't. I know it's harsh to say, but really, people have tried to argue me away from these sentiments and failed every time.

In the end, I think that you and I, and frankly, everyone on NICO, have a whole lot more in common than we give ourselves credit for. I came of harsh, and I'm sorry if I offended you in my post, but I do feel that I have contributed positively to this thread, WHICH, by the way, initially questioned the competitiveness of automatics drifting. From what you have said, and from what I had already said, I think we can now agree that automatics are the weaker choice of the two transmissions in a competitive setting.

[DriftFactory]

masticatingcow, we meet again.

[240SicknessX]

in this thread i hope i didnt lead anyone to belive that drifting an auto is the more viable option then drifting a manual car.

autos have their benefits and so do manuals, but in the end manual is far superior then an automatic. I drift my auto becuase its the only thing that i have now, and other people can get introduced to drift even if they have an auto and not get the oblivious "get a 5spd" answer.

[masticatingcow]

masticatingcow, we meet again.

Indeed. [threadjack] I've been meaning to come by; I'll give you a call... there's another FC in the works! [/threadjack]

[racer98]

is it possible to competitively drift in an automatic.

yes and no, yes you can but its only a question how much abuse can it handel, nissan has some of the best transmissions but its only a quesion of the previous owner how well it has been taken care of.

but a transmission cooler and changing the fluid would help but it would be the operating temp of the transmission.

[GEO]

The internet Bandwagon, you drive an auto, your uncool