DRIFTING, DRIFTING, DRIFTING.....

If a similar thread exists somewhere in this world about what I am about to ask, sorry. But I highly doubt there is a thread about the exact nitty gritty I want to know about this topic.

This thread mainly questions about the drift factor of a KA24DE-T in a 240sx.


First of all, I understand there are plenty and plenty thread on this topic but one thing that seems to be common is that they are mostly referring to just pure power.

This thread is asking the people who know very technical about drifting and about these motors. NOT ASKING FOR OBVIOUS INFORMATION ON THIS MOTOR.

My curiosity involves the better motor for drifting. I KNOW THAT MOTOR DOES NOT MATTER IN DRIFT, IT IS THE DRIVER, so do not mention this. It is the driver but my question is if the driver is the same and the driver is decent themself, are these motors so close to drifting that it doesn't matter.

The differences stated in many thread discussions:

KA24DE-T

Nissan KA Engine
KA24E (USDM '89-90 Nissan 240SX)
SOHC 2.4L (2,389cc)
Bore x Stroke: 89.0 x 96.0mm
Max Power: 140hp @ 5,600rpm
Max Torque: 152lb-ft @ 4,400rpm
KA24DE (USDM '91-98 NISSAN 240SX)
DOHC 2.4L (2,389cc)
Bore x Stroke: 89.0 x 96.0mm
Max Power: 155hp @ 5,600rpm
Max Torque: 160lb-ft @ 4,400rpm


- Indestructible block (iron block)
- More torque
- Lower max rpm
- 2.4 displacement

SR20DET

Nissan SR20DET Engine
Redtop SR20DET
(JDM '91-93 Nissan S13 SILVIA /180SX)
DOHC Turbocharged 2.0L (1,998cc)
Bore x Stroke: 86 x 86mm
Max Power: 202hp @ 6,000rpm
Max Torque: 203lb-ft @ 4,000rpm
T-25G turbo


Blacktop SR20DET
(JDM '94-98 NISSAN 180SX)
DOHC Turbocharged 2.0L (1,998cc)
Bore x Stroke: 86 x 86mm
Max Power: 202hp @ 6,000rpm
Max Torque: 203lb-ft @ 4,000rpm
T-25G turbo

Blacktop SR20DET
(JDM '94-98 Nissan S14 SILVIA)
DOHC Turbocharged 2.0L (1,998cc)
Bore x Stroke: 86 x 86mm
Max Power: 217hp @ 6,000rpm
Max Torque: 203lb-ft @ 4,800rpm
T-28 turbo


Blacktop SR20DET
(JDM '99-02 Nissan S15 SILVIA)
DOHC Turbocharged 2.0L (1,998cc)
Bore x Stroke: 86 x 86mm
Max Power: 245hp @ 6,400rpm
Max Torque: 202lb-ft @ 4,800rpm
T-28BB Turbo


- High max rpm
- Respond well to mods
- Built as a race inspired motor?
- Lighter
- 2.0 displacement

Differences stated in Super Street: Nissan Issue (September 2010)
Provided in the Super Street site

Bottom End
- The SR is a box engine design with an 86x86mm bore and stroke, while the KA is an undersquare with a 89x96.0mm. Due to its short stroke, the SR can turn considerably higher RPM speeds than the KA.

- the KA starts to see dangerous levels of engine vibration once it goes past 7600rpm. While you probably won't notice this driving around on the street, sustained vibration at high rpm over long periods, as in a race, means a very short-lived engine.

- But the SR block is not without faults. If big power is your game, the KA has a larger base displacement (2389cc) in comparison to an SR (1998cc). As the old adage goes, there is no replacement for displacement.

- The limiting factor for the SR here is the shorter deck height. You can only stroke it so far to where you hit a physical limit. Being a smaller displacement engine, it is also limited to how much the amount of exhaust pressure it can generate. This means that with the same size turbo on each engine (say an HKS GT-RS), the KA would be able to spool the turbo faster, theoretically hitting peak boost sooner than the SR would.

- Its cast iron block is built tough to handle abuse, but falls a little short with its puny rods and cast pistons. Its weakest points are its head gasket and head studs. The SR was built for boost from day one as its head gasket, head studs, pistons and rods can hold their own against mild turbo upgrades and increase in boost levels.

Cylinder Head

- From the factory, the SR head flows quite well. The KA head has large, adequate intake ports, but the exhaust ports are pretty small. Good thing Nissan casted enough material in the KA head to where it could be ported to flow comparably to a SR head.

- SRs are notorious for spitting out rocker arms at high RPMs. The KA uses a shim-over-bucket design that puts a direct link between the cam and the valve. What does that mean? You won't have to worry that you will have valve train issues at high RPM, like bouncing off the rev limiter drifting.

As you can see, there are two sides to every coin. Although many people have written off the KA as a POS truck engine, it has its definite strengths. The almighty SR is not without faults and limitations. So which engine is better? The real answer lies not with the engine but with how it is properly built. That might sound like something Yoda would say, but the power of an engine lies with proper preparation and tuning. Still not convinced? Lets see what the experts have to say about it.

Just The Tip From The Experts

ERic hsu of cosworth: KA; For a streetcar, there is no replacement for displacement. The KA head flows better than the SR and is only limited by head studs (which ARP sells) and head gasket (which Cosworth is currently in development of).

Naoto negishi of npd: KA; The difference in displacement, valvetrain design and cost/availability of donor engines gives it the edge over the SR20DET.

Eddie Kim of Dynamic Autosports: SR; This is because of the number and variety of parts available. Everything from engine parts to manifolds to engine management makes it an easy platform to work with.

Alex Shen of SP Engineering: KA; The KA's cast iron block makes it strong from the start. Since fuel management is no longer a limiting factor, it is a strong base package for making power.

Dai Yoshihara of Falken Racing: SR; In racing, engine reliability is a big priority. I think that tuners have an easier time making power on the SR, but I would prefer my V8 over them both (laughs).

Quoc Ly of Driftspeed: SR; I choose the SR because it takes less effort to make decent power and there are so many different parts available for it. Masaki Nakayama of A'PEXi: SR; There are tons of support for the platform. People have more choices in parts and makers.

Kenji Sumino of Greddy: KA; I built my first KA in 1996 because I wanted to be different and believed it was a better-designed engine to make big power. I still believe this true to this day.

Clark Steppler of Jim Wolf Technology: KA; Although the SR20DET surpasses the KA24DE in many areas, the KA can be improved to match or surpass the SR. The size of the engine and deck height makes it an easy choice when making big power.



So they discuss differences between the two motors but still my question isn't even answered within the expert's opinion. I want to know the differences in drifting if the driver has the same potential.

Is the KA24DE-T close comparison compared to the always used SR20DET in drifting?

Drifting factors

Now the big questions:

- How is the weight ratio with the KA24DE-T in a 240sx? Is it similar to the SR20DET in a 240sx?

- Is it possible for the KA24DE-T to last in drifting competition?

- Can the KA24DE-T be championship material in a 240sx as long as the driver complements the car?

- Can the balance and power be provided as such other drift cars have?

- Is the SR20DET or any other motors such as VQ35DE (my top pick, but pricey for competition), RB25/26 DETT, LS1 always better choices for the 240sx no matter what? - Again, if the driver's potential is similar.

Is the KA24DE-T that much of a worse choice compared to others?

AGAIN ALL IN TERMS OF DRIFT, nothing else.

Moved

No opinions for this topic?

I've drifted both of them, I personally have a ka-t setup. Here are my answers to your questions.

Now the big questions:

- How is the weight ratio with the KA24DE-T in a 240sx? Is it similar to the SR20DET in a 240sx?

Once you start drifting you realize weight balance isn't as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. If anything you have more weight over the front crossmember, which means you have more grip. I didn't notice any difference in terms of how the car reacted due to weight when driving my car vs. an SR power car. Both cars are set up very similarly, the main difference is the engine.

- Is it possible for the KA24DE-T to last in drifting competition?

Yes, it's just like any other engine. If it's tuned correctly and you have the right size injectors and mafs for the size turbo that you are running you'll be fine. It's going to last just as long as any other engine that has an aftermarket turbo kit on it. Matt Powers ran a KA-T setup in Formula D this past season and got to the top 32 pretty much every round.

- Can the KA24DE-T be championship material in a 240sx as long as the driver complements the car?

Yes, google Matt Powers.

- Can the balance and power be provided as such other drift cars have?

Sure?

- Is the SR20DET or any other motors such as VQ35DE (my top pick, but pricey for competition), RB25/26 DETT, LS1 always better choices for the 240sx no matter what? - Again, if the driver's potential is similar.

There's no "best" engine out there. Start with what you have and go from there.

Is the KA24DE-T that much of a worse choice compared to others?

No, you can make just as much power with a KA compared to any engine you listed. It might not last as long, but you don't need more than 300 whp to drift an s chassis.



I'm guessing you've never been out to a track before and you're trying to plan out your build. Stop worrying about what engine performs like what and just go out and drive. I did my first 2 events on a stock KA, figured out how the car handled, then I started upgrading. If you're going to spend money on anything spend it on a 2-way differential, some coilovers, and a bucket seat. You can slide a totally stock 240sx all day long.

Yea, I never had seat time yet. I'm aiming for upcoming spring/summer. Yea my plans are to get my coilovers, 2-way LSD, and such before going crazy with the motor. Just wondering on what setup I should go when I begin the seat time and, hopefully, become good. I like to plan stuff out. But thanks, your opinion helps. Which would you say you like better though? I know you have the KA-T right now, but is it by choice? KA-T or SRT?

Chris28 wrote: You can slide a totally stock 240sx all day long.

^ THIS.

Unless you have a 5-figure budget, you're not going to do a swap and make good, effective use of it.... So, focus on improving the driver AND making sure the car is in the SAME shape it was in when new.

Replacing / maintaining isn't glamorous, but it pays off WAY more than throwing aftermarket parts at a shagged-out, tired S-chassis.

AZhitman wrote:Replacing / maintaining isn't glamorous, but it pays off WAY more than throwing aftermarket parts at a shagged-out, tired S-chassis.

Listen to the boss man, he knows what's up.

aznkipz wrote: Which would you say you like better though? I know you have the KA-T right now, but is it by choice? KA-T or SRT?

I like the KA better just because it has more torque. I chose to go KA just because I already had the KA, I can go to Advance Auto and get replacement parts all day long, and at the time I boosted my car it was "rare" to have a boosted KA. I daily my car, and having torque out of boost is definitely a plus.

As far as drifting goes, the SR definitely has a smoother powerband, but you have to keep the revs up in order to keep the tires spinning. I can spin the tires at a lower RPM, but when boost hits it hits pretty hard, and sometimes that's not what you want.

Like I said, go out there without anything done to your 240 and see how it handles, then go from there. If you can get a deal on an SR swap then go for it, but if not just go for a cheap KA-T setup. You can put a kit together for pretty cheap, you just don't want to cheap out on the tune. Head over to the KA-T section if you're more interested, there are plenty of build threads and setups to choose from over there.

-Chris

I appreciate the replies. Yea, that was the plan AZhitman haha. I just want to swap out to a dual cam at least and get my coilovers and LSD.

The single cam is just too damm slow lol.

O, it's also cause I daily drive my car and the KA single cams just too slow for daily. Takes forever to move.

Uhhh, no.

A well-maintained SOHC in a non-shagged S13 is a fun car to drive.

If your car is THAT slow, you need to get it back to as-new condition.

I had a DOHC with a mis-aligned intake cam, it idled perfectly, ran perfectly, sounded fine, was just extremely slow. 17 seconds to go from 0 mph to 55 mph, that kind of slow. Make sure your engine is running well before you knock it, I know a guy that used to win events with an SOHC, and he was going up against SR's. It's all about the driver.

practice in a slower car could possibly "force" you to hit turns faster and try to become better and make fewer mistakes. because you dont have the speed/power to make up for it

It is true and obvious that a well maintained engine would run better than a poorly maintained engine but still, the single cams a pass for me. But I do appreciate the advices.

Come on now, I was with a friend yesterday and he had a van. We booked it on Rt. 17 and what happend? -> I was ahead slightly. That is just sad. You can question my driving and what not and I don't know my potential on the corners, but I know how to drive straight. This was bad.

But my question is, How off is the weight ratio between a KA24DE-T from a SR20DET? Obviously this can be countered with weight relocations but from a drop in motor point.

Not enough to notice. At all.

I've had seasoned drifters drive my car - most are SR drivers, and they all commented on how easy it is to drive fast sideways.

Seriously, it's a moot point. Even if it was a 50-lb difference, it's not going to be noticeable. The difference between a full and empty fuel tank has more effect than the difference between an SR and a KA.

aznkipz wrote:But my question is, How off is the weight ratio between a KA24DE-T from a SR20DET? Obviously this can be countered with weight relocations but from a drop in motor point.

You're focusing too much on the details. All you need is seat time. Forget everything else.

Yea. Figured lol. I'll just go for the KA-T. But before the -T, get some seat time. Coilovers, LSD, then start haha.

Drifting in a stock ka with coilovers and a lsd is the most fun to me. My sr just makes alot of power in high rpms. I love it as a DD and occasional drag car, But id much rather have a simple ka setup. So if it blows you can just grab another for a couple hundred, and rock out.

@s13beast: I see. Yea, can't wait to start haha.

I love the torque of my ka. Its just so much more unique then runinng a sr20

sr's are complete s***. lighter my a**. my ca18det is cast iron block and weighs less than an all aluminum sr20det. an Sr is just 189cc wasted compared to a ca. ca is cast iron, cheaper, stock turbo'd, easy to build, stock coilpacks, stock valve timing aka eccs, light, robust, better top end than any other nissan engine, ca valvetrain is most coveted since the rb was built off of the ca. ca is bulletproof, personally id go ca18det over any but if i had to choose over ka vs sr it would be ka all day sr's are a joke. nissan copped out because the sr was cheaper to build but not better. being honest the only problem would be finding ca18det parts but you have to know where to look. sr's have more aftermarket support and thats why people give up and go sr because its a "cop" out. its the fanboy engine everyone has it so there's bound to be parts for it

We get it NISMO...You have a CA and love it. Fine, but stop with all the hat in. We know this because you pimp it in every thread you post in. Do you have anything constructive to say or should we just cut and paste your posts into every thread to help save you the time?

sr's are complete bullsh*t.--- When you make sentences like that no one listens, because its obviously FALSE, you mean to tell me all the peopl in america rocking sr's in their 240's, ae86's, old datsuns, bmw 3's, sentra's, and every other car they've been thrown into are ALL Stupid, and its not just you?

Even NISSAN THEMSELVES WENT WITH SR OVER CA IN JAPAN ROFL.

Don't get me wrong the head is great on ca, and I personally don't have a problem with the motor but its just ignorant to go on a forum (a source of information) and spew garbage all over your keyboard and post it. Oh and I'm a fan boy because I can order up a ton of different aftermarket parts for my motor? That makes no sense.

BTW mr wise guy, find me an amazingly high horsepower CA, and find me a bunch of amatuer/pro drift cars with a CA, you cant and you won't. Because there are way more sr's sliding all day long.

LASTLY MAZWORX made 1500WHP off an sr, I cant find any 1500hp CA's>

knew this was gona turn into a blah engine is better than blah engine. lol

I Sweden all the s13 were sold with the CA engine, mine is built with a forged bottom end and Im running a Holset HX35 that delivers 460hp/551nm at the wheels..

http://vimeo.com/34469799

The white one is me and the red one got a forged bottom end with a garret gt2876rs and 300+ rwhp

Sorry for OT but i found this thread when i was looking for info about Ka24 cuz im planing to import a engine to Sweden and run a 2.6L stroker kit with BC CAMs and a Borg Warner s200sx 51rs turbo for 2013

Chris28 wrote:

aznkipz wrote:But my question is, How off is the weight ratio between a KA24DE-T from a SR20DET? Obviously this can be countered with weight relocations but from a drop in motor point.

You're focusing too much on the details. All you need is seat time. Forget everything else.

before i read or say anything else i'm qouting this guy he's right^^^

And as far as all the motor this motor that ... you don't need it I've seen a guy with a honda hang with the street drift scene in memphis and attend a traction optional event and do ok, yes its a honda puts out o rwhp but he still makes tire smoke and looks ok using alot of speed and his ebrake.

Note i Am not a honda fan,never been a honda fan, never will be a honda fan. The only good honda is the ones people drive not modify imo.

Just saying, with mere speed and a handbrake he does good for his car.

I have a single cam and yes its slow, its a 20 y/o steady aging 180XXX Mile motor its getting old,i dont expect to beat a v6 van by much (some vans are lighter and quicker than you think)

but slow motor aside it has a brand new clutch,welded diff, k-sport coilovers,and adjustable arms with solid bushings in the rear.

When i clutch kick it feels like i'm on ice on dry pavement and my car does not have any power as to what it was new.

Suspension and seat time your best friends

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP6v1paZZdQ[/youtube]

This is my friend axle at mir last event, stock ka, coilovers, and adjustable arms

Proof is in the pudding boys you got big enough cahones a good clutch and suspension your good