I've been running the Nismo R4 camshaft now for a couple of months and though it's a fun upgrade, I am thinking about downgrading to either the Nismo R6 or the PDM C406.
Let's get to some technical specifics on the cams in question. The R4 cam I am running now is:Int. and exh. have same specs, 270 degrees, .402 lift.The cam is pretty good from about 3500 to red, but lacks power from idle to 3000, which is why I am thinking of getting rid of it. I need more streetability for my needs. Stop-and-go, and hill starts are really staring to get on my nerves. Plus the idle is really unstable from the long duration. I know, I could be called a wuss for this, but I like the idle to be a little more civilized.
The Nismo R6 specs out at:Int. 248 degrees, .422 lift; exh. 256 degrees, .422 liftLess on duration, but more lift than stock or R4. Likely to have a better idle and a broader torque curve.
And the PDM C406:Int. 260 degrees, .424 lift; exh. 268 degrees, .441 liftJust from the numbers, I am leaning towards this one. 10 degrees less on the int. duration, so it should clean up the idle some, and with such a nice lift, power should be realized across the board too. A little more streetable, but more juice than the Nismo R6.
Finally, my question, I am looking for any input from anyone with experience using these cams, or thoughts based on the specifications given. Thanks in advance.
Down grading camshaft on KA24E (long)
It'll make a bit of difference but I wouldn't say it'd be drastic. If you want it to have more bottom I'd go lower still on the duration. 10 degrees won't make a world of difference but it will make some. Maybe you can get something with even less duration at the same lift (or close to it) through other avenues.
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Arrow
- Posts: 624
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- Car: 1990 240SX SE - SOLD
2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - SOLD
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - corner carver
1998 Pathfinder - Location: Raleigh, NC
I've looked at PDM's cams for a while now and I believe they are the best cams for the money. I am thinking about getting one, I am thinking about their middle one... Not sure the numbers on it but it is the one that doesn't need to cut the shims on and is not the best choice for auto's... b/c of it's lift and duration.. Might be the one your talking about but I am not sure...
boostme, thanks for the input, maybe I'll go the R6 route then, the duration is lesser, and lift is a little lesser than the PDM c406.
Arrow, PDM offers 3 different cams for our engine: C406, the one that I talked about, is the lowest on it's numbers and is the one that does not require machine work, the middle one is the c404 and does require machine work, lastly the race cam will require machining and valve springs, and maybe other modifications.
The more I think about it, the more I am now leaning towards the Nismo R6. I need my car to be very streetable. Any more input is welcome.
Arrow, PDM offers 3 different cams for our engine: C406, the one that I talked about, is the lowest on it's numbers and is the one that does not require machine work, the middle one is the c404 and does require machine work, lastly the race cam will require machining and valve springs, and maybe other modifications.
The more I think about it, the more I am now leaning towards the Nismo R6. I need my car to be very streetable. Any more input is welcome.
Went for a country drive for a good hour today, trying to stay below 4000 RPM so the cam can break-in just a little. From what I felt today, this cam is really a good cam for street and is basically what the car should have come with from the start. Idle is almost as smooth as the stocker, with a tiny hint of lope, so little that you wouldn't know it wasn't stock by listening.
More to come after a while of letting it settle, then I'll report on its high RPM characteristics and how it does with the NOS on.
More to come after a while of letting it settle, then I'll report on its high RPM characteristics and how it does with the NOS on.
Took the R6 all the way up today, and I'd say this is a good street camshaft. The engine feels more torquey right off idle and pulls great to 5500RPM. The R4 used to pull hard all the way to 6000, but hey, I got low and mid back and then some. Can't complain at all.
More to come on the impressions with nitrous on.
More to come on the impressions with nitrous on.
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Arrow
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:28 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX SE - SOLD
2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - SOLD
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - corner carver
1998 Pathfinder - Location: Raleigh, NC
I believe that you might be able to get an adjustable camshaft sprocket that you could use to lose a little low end and have it pull harder to 6000 RPM. Just a thought and I am not sure where you might be able to find the sprocket. I just know that some of my friends have done it to their SOHC 4 cylinders....
Just some thoughts.
Just some thoughts.
I've looked into the adjustable sprocket, but given that we've got timing chains instead of belts, the adjustments and final tuning is too much of a hassle for me. Taking the cam cover off to test each setting would suck, since chains are oil bathed, and can't be left open like belt drives. Plus, the sprocket itslef is not a screw down adjustment type. You actually have to remove the thing just to get the different shims in there. Lastly, being that it is a SOHC, you are moving the int. and exh. at the same time, instead of being able to move them independently. Anyway, the hassles seem to out weight the benefits.
Arrow, have you decided on your cam set up yet?
Arrow, have you decided on your cam set up yet?
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Arrow
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:28 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX SE - SOLD
2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - SOLD
2009 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - corner carver
1998 Pathfinder - Location: Raleigh, NC
Well, now that you have mentioned that th R6 cam is going great for you I am thinking that I might look into that one.
How much does the R6 cost? And is it one that you need to ship in a core for?
I just bought a second engine to use for parts / rebuild, so my funds have dropped a little for a new cam
I will probably not get a new cam for a while so that I can save up some money to rebuild the engine then possibly Turbocharge it... Then having a better camshaft in it would help out a lot!
Thanks a lot niznos and glad that everything is working well for you!
How much does the R6 cost? And is it one that you need to ship in a core for?
I just bought a second engine to use for parts / rebuild, so my funds have dropped a little for a new cam
I will probably not get a new cam for a while so that I can save up some money to rebuild the engine then possibly Turbocharge it... Then having a better camshaft in it would help out a lot!Thanks a lot niznos and glad that everything is working well for you!
The R6 I got from: http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=324 The price was $317 plus shipping, with NO core required, it's a new camshaft. Truth is, I didn't see many places that had the R6. You may want to see if your local dealer can beat that price. I don't enjoy the interactions with my local dealer parts guys, so I didn't give them the business.
I don't know that much about turbo-ing, as far as the technical stuff is concerned, but I do know that too much duration is not a good thing at all. Check out the tech specifics to make sure before investing in a cam that you won't want to use with your future turbo. Luckily, the R6 is very mild and may not be problematic. Make sure to speak with some knowledgeble people first though.
This cam takes 30 minutes to do with basic knowledge, tools, and a $10 set of gaskets. We luck out with the SOHC's, I can't imagine it any easier. Definately a must do.
I don't know that much about turbo-ing, as far as the technical stuff is concerned, but I do know that too much duration is not a good thing at all. Check out the tech specifics to make sure before investing in a cam that you won't want to use with your future turbo. Luckily, the R6 is very mild and may not be problematic. Make sure to speak with some knowledgeble people first though.
This cam takes 30 minutes to do with basic knowledge, tools, and a $10 set of gaskets. We luck out with the SOHC's, I can't imagine it any easier. Definately a must do.
Okay, I finally got around to putting the bottle back in and ran the R6 cam with the NOS jetted at .036. It feels pretty good, as compared to stock it used to want to fall off as it gets pass the 4700 area, but now it feels a little more powerful and picks up that void the stock cam falls off, as in past 4700 to red.
Definately a good cam for the street, and for a little nitrous.
Definately a good cam for the street, and for a little nitrous.
Re: (niznos)
Ive had the Nismo R4 cam in for about 2 years now. It was a long, tough road to get my car to where it is now, all for the cam. The cam doesnt do well by itself at all, wanting to die due to air starvation. The adjustable cam gear came in handy as i could "detune" the cam so that the car wouldnt die at idle. Then came a HKS Super AFR to regulate the incoming MAF signal to the ECU so that it would be more stable (the R4 lopes like a big block V8 maxed out!). This helped quite a lot. But it all came together when i rebuilt my motor with higher compression pistons. You see, the longer the duration of a cam, the more compression it needs. Now that i have 10.5:1, the cam doesnt even need the adjustment of the cam gear, nor the AFR. And it screams all over the RPM range. The thing that makes it less streetable is probably the grippiness of my clutch (pedal is sooo firm...).
Basically, if you are looking for a good drop in replacement, go for less duration, more lift. But i still believe the most power will be realised with a higher compression and a longer duration. But this requires MUCH more serious engine modifications. It just all depends on what you want in the end. I never even new a R6 existed until i saw this post. All i thought there was was the R4 and R5. Glad to see some other KA24Es without turbo!!
Basically, if you are looking for a good drop in replacement, go for less duration, more lift. But i still believe the most power will be realised with a higher compression and a longer duration. But this requires MUCH more serious engine modifications. It just all depends on what you want in the end. I never even new a R6 existed until i saw this post. All i thought there was was the R4 and R5. Glad to see some other KA24Es without turbo!!
Re: (niznos)
Well, i didnt actually do it all just for the R4. I did it to make my car faster, without going turbo, swapping engines, or using nitrous. Plus, this is all over the span of about 2 and a half years. So it wasnt all done at once. I just kept at it until it got better. But i am very happy with the end results. The engine is now, for all intents and purposes, done. All i can do now is remap the ECU, maybe a lightweight crank pulley, and a lightweight flywheel. And believe it or not, its my daily drive, although i do have another car for backup in case something goes wrong. If they had offered the R6 when i was looking for a cam, i probably would have gotten it, it would have been a whole lot less work to get it to run properly. But like i said, i am extremely happy with the way it turned out.