Does your car "ping" on acceleration

[Driving Instructor]

Hello,

I have noticed that my car "pings" detonation..... when I give is some gas. It does it right after I give it a "shot" of gas to accelerate. I guess the knock sensor kicks in then does something with the gas but I find it funny that it's doing it.

I can make it do it consistently. And yes, I did try different gas stations.

Let me know what you think. Time for tune up?

10400 kms

[alonsorules8]

What grade of gas are you using? Dose the gas you are using contain any Ethanol? do you have an extended warranty?

My guess is that the gas stations are putting ethanol in to there gas and is the cause of your problem, but with the amount of miles on your car it might be time for a tune up.

If your car is still covered by an extended warranty you might want to run it by your local dealer for a check out.

I had a tank of gas in PA that had 10% ethanol 90% gas ratio and my Versa had a lot of knocking under acceleration and under deceleration. Once I went back to 100% gasoline the problem went away.

[DejaWiz]

Never experienced it. Although, I do use premium fuel. I still kick it old school style with higher octane rated fuels since the Versa is 9.9:1 compression. I've gotten the best fuel efficiency, since my daily work commute is through dense city traffic on hilly terrain.

[alex_btl]

I have always used ethanol since the day one, I bought this car.

Over here in my place its called as silver (89 Octane) rating which is atleast 60 to 75 cents cheaper than regular 87 because our state produces lot of corn that produces ethanol. Its not that I dont want to put premium but its atleast $1 more and versa is only a 4 cylinder

Never had any knocking problems so far.

It actually depends where you fill gas and the quality of gas. I have experienced this problem when I fill gas on some remote location on the highway.

I regularly fill at BP, so no problems

Modified by alex_btl at 4:42 PM 8/17/2008

Modified by alex_btl at 4:43 PM 8/17/2008

Modified by alex_btl at 4:44 PM 8/17/2008
Modified by alex_btl at 4:46 PM 8/17/2008

[blindsnyper]

zerothread?id=336474

those this sound like it would be the same thing?

[sooner4x4]

If it is truly pre-detonation "pinging", then there is probably something wrong. It shouldn't be doing that. I know mine doesn't. The three other Versa owners I know do not experience this.

A tune up at 10400 km? The classic definition of a tune up is spark plugs, wires, etc. Definitely not needed for a long long time.

Premium fuel: totally not needed and a big waste of money, but some people believe it is good for them. I am not trying to start a premium versus reg gas argument, but Versas do not need premium to operate properly.

Gasohol (gas with 10% ethanol): This was a failed experiment in the 1970's and it is just as stupid now. Avoid it if you want to avoid long term and intermittant short term problems. The younger folks here weren't driving in the 1970's and many others have probably forgotten about all of the mechanical issues that came about from gasohol. Why do we have to repeat the same mistakes?

[DejaWiz]

Premium fuel: totally not needed and a big waste of money, but some people believe it is good for them. I am not trying to start a premium versus reg gas argument, but Versas do not need premium to operate properly.

I'll agree with you about ethanol, but I'll have to differ on the subject of premium fuel.

True, all modern vehicles have anti-knock sensors so just about anyone can run 87 octane rated gas regardless of compression ratio, but with my experiences with my V I get the best MPG using premium fuel. Likely it's the fact there is quite hilly terrain on my daily commute and in stop and go rush hour traffic and a CVT, I need all the fuel economy help I can get.

Here's what I typically average using the three grades of fuel offered locally with approx 85% / 15% city/hwy:

87-88 Reg: 25-2789-90 Mid (w/10% ethanol): 22-2591-92 Prem: 28-30

[Andrews Chalmers]

True, all modern vehicles have anti-knock sensors so just about anyone can run 87 octane rated gas regardless of compression ratio, but with my experiences with my V I get the best MPG using premium fuel.

Likely it's the fact there is quite hilly terrain on my daily commute and in stop and go rush hour traffic and a CVT, I need all the fuel economy help I can get.

Correlation does not equal causation. Premium fuel just resists premature detonation because it has a higher activation energy. This only makes a difference in high performance engines that utilize higher compression ratios.

In the Versa? you're wasting your money. You are most likely getting higher mpg by using premium because your local 87 contains 10% ethanol & therefore has less energy content.

What's the price difference between premium and regular octane? I bet it is more $$$ than the mpg gains you get (so yes you visit the gas station less but pay out more).

[DejaWiz]

1. Correlation does not equal causation. Premium fuel just resists premature detonation because it has a higher activation energy. This only makes a difference in high performance engines that utilize higher compression ratios.

2. In the Versa? you're wasting your money. You are most likely getting higher mpg by using premium because your local 87 contains 10% ethanol & therefore has less energy content.

3. What's the price difference between premium and regular octane? I bet it is more $$$ than the mpg gains you get (so yes you visit the gas station less but pay out more).

1. Yes, I know a higher octane rated fuel resists premature detonation (pinging or knocking) than a lower octane rated fuel. What part of 9.9:1 compression ratio for the Versa did you miss when it was stated? That's a fairly high compression ratio given most fuel miser cars from 10-30 years ago had 7.0-8.5:1.

2. Again, the Versa has a 9.9:1 CR. It can utilize premium fuel with no problems (no oxidation of the spark plugs). And no, the 87 regular or 91 premium gas around here does not contain any traces of ethanol, it's only in the 90 mid-grade.

3. The difference is 87 sells for $3.46 and 91 sells for $3.61. I've figured this out a while back to see what I'm saving in the long run. Please continue reading.

Now for some quick math:Based on 800 miles/per month and a 10 gallon purchase every fillup.....

87 Regular - $3.46/gal-26mpg average-260 miles per tank-$34.60 per fillup-3.08 tanks per month-$106.46 per month-$1277.54 per year

89 Mid - $3.36/gal-23mpg average-230 miles per tank-$33.60 per fillup-3.47 tanks per month-$116.87 per month-$1402.43 per year

91 Prem - $3.61/gal-29mpg average-290 miles per tank-$36.10 per fillup-2.76 tanks per month-$99.59 per month-$1195.03 per year

Now, please explain to me how using premium and the advantages it offers is a waste of money in my Versa again?

[Andrews Chalmers]

9.91:1 is not really "high compression ratio." Since you're referring to engines from the 1970s... I've seen engines from the 1970s that were easily over 11:1 and used leaded gasoline.

Comparing old engines with carburetors without knock sensor/fuel mixture adjustment is comparing apples and oranges.

Honda L15A VTEC uses a compression of 10.4:1, Toyota's 2ZR-FE and 1NZ-FE has a 10:1 and 10.5:1 respectively... by comparative measures, the MR18DE is not really "high compression."

But your numbers are amazing. Will you speculate at how the the premium fuel gives you such good mileage?
Modified by Andrews Chalmers at 11:40 AM 8/18/2008

[DejaWiz]

9.91:1 is not really "high compression ratio." Since you're referring to engines from the 1970s... I've seen engines from the 1970s that were easily over 11:1 and used leaded gasoline.

Comparing old engines with carburetors without knock sensor/fuel mixture adjustment is comparing apples and oranges.

Honda L15A VTEC uses a compression of 10.4:1, Toyota's 2ZR-FE and 1NZ-FE has a 10:1 and 10.5:1 respectively... by comparative measures, the MR18DE is not really "high compression."

But your numbers are amazing. Will you speculate at how the the premium fuel gives you such good mileage?

Modified by Andrews Chalmers at 11:40 AM 8/18/2008

True, engines from the 60-70's that were over 11:1 using leaded gas was commonplace, but then again, a lead additive is an octane rating booster in itself.

And in comparison, 9.9:1 may not be considered a high CR by todays commonplace CR's, but it is a high CR for a NA gasoline IC engine... regardless of year, make, model, and fuel delivery methodology.

As far as the higher fuel mileage with premium in my V, the only speculative sense I can make out of that is because of a 19 mile round trip commute on hilly terrain in stop and go rush hour traffic (having to stop and start while on an incline, for example) using a CVT equipped vehicle. The engine may be able to actually provide an advantage in such conditions with such fuel.

[Driving Instructor]

How does the KNOCK sensor work? I think once it sences the KNOCK...it adjust the fuel. So does that mean when it "pings", it makes the fuel riccher?

Can this be a reason why I only get max 30 mpg in town?

Just a tought........

[sooner4x4]

Back in the day, when we would keep our cars running correctly with timing lights, tach and dwell meters, etc., you would set the timing to get maximum performance and avoid pinging. If the timing was off a little, advanced a little too much if I remember correctly, you would back off the timing a degree or two and stop the pinging.

I guess what I am trying to say is, the classic way to reduce pinging was to retard the timing a little and/or up the octane. I am not sure if this is applicable to computer controlled engines, but I suspect timing adjustment would be the way a computer would arrest the knock.

Another classic reason for pinging, especially in a higher mileage engine, is the formation of carbon at the top of the cylinder. Not sure if this is a common affliction in modern engines.

30 mpg max in town? Sounds pretty darn good to me.

[Driving Instructor]

Back in the day, when we would keep our cars running correctly with timing lights, tach and dwell meters, etc., you would set the timing to get maximum performance and avoid pinging. If the timing was off a little, advanced a little too much if I remember correctly, you would back off the timing a degree or two and stop the pinging.

I guess what I am trying to say is, the classic way to reduce pinging was to retard the timing a little and/or up the octane. I am not sure if this is applicable to computer controlled engines, but I suspect timing adjustment would be the way a computer would arrest the knock.

Another classic reason for pinging, especially in a higher mileage engine, is the formation of carbon at the top of the cylinder. Not sure if this is a common affliction in modern engines.

30 mpg max in town? Sounds pretty darn good to me.

except this is what I signed up for... lol FUEL ECONOMY 6-speed manual transmission - City 7.9 (36) 6-speed manual transmission - Highway 6.3 (45) Xtronic CVTTM - City 7.5 (38) Xtronic CVTTM - Highway 6.0 (47)

[MinisterofDOOM]

9.91:1 is not really "high compression ratio." Since you're referring to engines from the 1970s... I've seen engines from the 1970s that were easily over 11:1 and used leaded gasoline.

1960s maybe, but not the 1970s. The 1970s are The Era of Low Compression, thanks to newly enacted emissions control laws. That was the reason we had >7 liter motors making under 300hp and STILL guzzling gas.

How does the KNOCK sensor work? I think once it sences the KNOCK...it adjust the fuel. So does that mean when it "pings", it makes the fuel riccher?

Knock sensor hears knock and retards timing. Retarded timing means less power and poorer efficiency. If you're actually HEARING knock, it means the knock sensors are not doing their job. This could be because they're bad, or because the car is running so poorly that they simply can't retard timing enough to fully compensate.

Knock is very hard on an engine. It's not something you ever want to hear.

Even with the low miles on the car, it's probably worth pulling the plugs to take a look at them. Make sure your air filter is clean. Make sure the fuel filter is clean. Run some fuel system treatment through the car (my personal favorites are Lucas Fuel System Treatment and Techron). Try running a higher octane fuel (even just for one tank as a diagnostic). See if any of that makes a difference. If it doesn't, the fact that the car is pinging needs to be looked into.

[alonsorules8]

except this is what I signed up for... lol FUEL ECONOMY 6-speed manual transmission - City 7.9 (36) 6-speed manual transmission - Highway 6.3 (45) Xtronic CVTTM - City 7.5 (38) Xtronic CVTTM - Highway 6.0 (47)

except this is what I signed up for... lol FUEL ECONOMY 6-speed manual transmission - City 7.9 (36) 6-speed manual transmission - Highway 6.3 (45) Xtronic CVTTM - City 7.5 (38) Xtronic CVTTM - Highway 6.0 (47)

IS the 36 mpg 45mpg hwy Imperial Gallons or US Gallons?

[Driving Instructor]

IS the 36 mpg 45mpg hwy Imperial Gallons or US Gallons?

CANADIAN...Imperial