Does this influence you?

[vikesfankevin1986]

When you guys are voting, or choosing who to vote for, does serving in the military affect your decision? Would you be more likely to vote for someone just because they were in the military, or would you not, because they are. Or would you only vote for them if they were highly decorated?
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the respect, and personally, I try to be a good American and good citizen, but there are a lot of losers in the military. I often call the military a last resort that people turn into a first resort. Don't get me wrong, it has many benifits and can help you greatly in life, but it allows slackers to excell...You can't get fired so why work harder? Often good members get out because they are sick of cleaning up after the slackers...The military loses it's best members because they can do better outside of the military but the ones who can't do better stay in, because it's very hard to get fired and if you can pass a test you can keep getting promoted.
Personally, I would not vote for someone for the sole fact they served in the military.

[dusred]

You have a very good point about the military being full of losers, with all due respect to our troops, of course. Seems like those who run for political office after the military are those who have been promoted and/or who have gone through life changing experiences (and no John Kerry, getting rice lodged in your a** isn't a life changing experience. . okay maybe it is. LOL) like John McCain did.

Personally I wouldn't vote for a politician just because they were in the military; however, having that military experience can only help them in making their decisions. Military expierence is just the "cherry on top" to me.

Disclaimer: I'm just a young punk a** kid and don't know much about life yet so don't take my opinions too seriously.

[IBCoupe]

It doesn't tend to influence me. Whether a candidate as served in the armed forces doesn't factor into my reasoning at any point. Until you asked the question, in fact, it hadn't even occurred to me that I might consider those things.

I try to be pragmatic when I vote, as most do, I imagine - I balance whose promises best align with my ideology and which candidate has the best chance of enacting their promises. This is all very intuitive, but I'll break it down anyways: in a Presidential election, Candidate A may give promises that align 75% with my ideology, and Candidate B has promises that align 62% with my ideology. However, there's only 2% chance that Candidate A will actually reach office and have the opportunity to fulfill those promiess, whereas there's a 48% chance that Candidate B will reach office. In that situation, a 48% chance to get 62% of what I want beats a 2% chance to get 75% of what I want.

[Cold_Zero]

Having grown up in the military for the majority of my life, I would sayno. There are a lot of good people and ok people in the Military. And republicans, democrats and all sorts. They use to do a good job keeping politics out of the picture (for the most part.)

[WDRacing]

I look at experience as a whole. Military experience can be very broad ranging. Military service could mean someone that flipped burgers or it could mean someone that roped out of helo's to rescue others. Obviously the people running for some sort of office aren't burger flippers. So the BS slacker comments are biased and only slander the good men and women that have given their lives for this country.

Naive much? Every business has slackers and if you think it's easy to fire someone after they've been there a few years you're wrong. As far as the people picking up the slack, again, you can apply that rationale to almost ALL things in life.

You also don't "pass" tests to get promoted. Every service is different, the USAF relying heavily on career field testing. BUT, the USAF promotes the people that do the best on their test...not just people that pass. The Military has been streamlining and unloading "slackers" for years now.

I'd rather rely on 10 random people in the Military then 10 random civilians. If you haven't served, go ahead and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. There won't be any slandering of the Military while I read NICO...ever.

Want to continue with this discussion? Then do so by talking about whether Military experience that pertains to the office being sought is a good or bad thing. Nothing else will be tolerated.

WD

[themadscientist]

If they did or did not serve in the military is irrelevant. Whatever they did in the past though will be scrutinized for ethical behavior. I am screwed for this election cyle. The Democratic incumbent is a piece of crap but his Republican challenger is no saint either. I will be wrestling with this call all the way until I vote. There is a Libertarian candidate but I have more notoriety than he does.

[WDRacing]

Such is the case all over homie. Money = elected.

[srellim234]

Military experience only comes into play or me if the person has demonstrated that he actually learned from it and applied skills in civilian life since.

I also know that there are a lot of good people who were willing but unable to serve in the military, myself included. After passing all of the assessment tests with flying colors I was turned away from the military because I previously had a knee surgery. This despite the fact I was a world class track athlete after the surgery.

I do look at people without the military experience and try to more carefully assess whether or not they're astute enough to leave the military decisions to those with military expertise.

[Cold_Zero]

We need a 'like' button.

[vikesfankevin1986]

I look at experience as a whole. Military experience can be very broad ranging. Military service could mean someone that flipped burgers or it could mean someone that roped out of helo's to rescue others. Obviously the people running for some sort of office aren't burger flippers. So the BS slacker comments are biased and only slander the good men and women that have given their lives for this country.

Naive much? Every business has slackers and if you think it's easy to fire someone after they've been there a few years you're wrong. As far as the people picking up the slack, again, you can apply that rationale to almost ALL things in life.

You also don't "pass" tests to get promoted. Every service is different, the USAF relying heavily on career field testing. BUT, the USAF promotes the people that do the best on their test...not just people that pass. The Military has been streamlining and unloading "slackers" for years now.

I'd rather rely on 10 random people in the Military then 10 random civilians. If you haven't served, go ahead and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. There won't be any slandering of the Military while I read NICO...ever.

Want to continue with this discussion? Then do so by talking about whether Military experience that pertains to the office being sought is a good or bad thing. Nothing else will be tolerated.

WD

Wow...thanks for explaining how promotion works. Having test for Staff Sergent and now being one, I think I know how it works. One thing you didn't mention about promotions is the fact it's a point system. Yes you are right about people who score highest on their test but you also get points for time in service and decorations. If someone has been in for so many years and been on a couple deployments and the unit has won a few outstanding unit awards they WILL get promoted with even a low score on their test.

Yes that is true that you have slackers in the real world but the difference is, they generally don't get promoted. In the Air Force at least, they do...
In the real world you can also get fired. In in Air Force, not so much.

Since you are such a military expert I will explain what it takes to get kicked out generally, and you can tell me if I'm correct...
Lets say they are minor offenses, such as slacking and doing a s*** job...
First you get a verbal warning.
Second you get whats called a letter of counseling.
Each time you get in trouble for doing the same stuff you get another one...
After 3 or so you get whats called a letter of reprimand. These are pretty sever, but you still need about 3 of them to get what we call an Article 15. A single Article 15 may keep you from being able to reenlist but it will take around 2 or 3 for them to kick you out. By the time you get to the point where you have 3 Article 15s, you are most likely finished with your enlistment...How am I doing so far?

Also what method has the Air Force been using to unload these slackers? Last time I checked, unless they have major things, such as an Article 15, no one can stop them from reenlisting. They do have this thing in the Air National Guard, where if you are past your 20 years, they can either make you retire or not let you reenlist, but this is mainly due to the high numbers of members. Am I missing or forgetting something here?

The impression that I get is that so many people think someone is such a great person or such a great worker because they served in the military. I just wanted to know if that's what you guys thought. I was wondering if you would question their work ethic or dedication even if they served. Because if people are thinking that way, I just wanted them to know that not everyone that served in the military is a good canidate.

And by the way, I have been the guy picking up other peoples slack and getting nothing for it. That's why I got off of active duty and went the Guard route. Slander is something that is not true...what I am saying is a FACT.

[WDRacing]

Wow, you made Staff.

Dude, you insulted me and tons of people I know to include my family with your ignorant and arrogant first post. So you can take your disenchanted bs and GTFO. If you're unhappy in the USAF then find another job or make some changes. Since you're just becoming a first line supervisor, try giving a proper feedback to the slackers and don't write 5 eprs for people that don't deserve them.

Don't whine to me, I did more then my share of molding troops while I served and none of my amn were slackers, because I didn't allow it. Before you go slandering the entire US military I suggest you go talk to your Chief and ask how YOU can make a difference. Christ, you're describing the problem and acting like nothing can be done about it. That's the whole problem with your entire damn generation. Always waiting for someone else to do everything for you.

WD

[vikesfankevin1986]

Wow, you made Staff.

Dude, you insulted me and tons of people I know to include my family with your ignorant and arrogant first post. So you can take your disenchanted bs and GTFO. If you're unhappy in the USAF then find another job or make some changes. Since you're just becoming a first line supervisor, try giving a proper feedback to the slackers and don't write 5 eprs for people that don't deserve them.

Don't whine to me, I did more then my share of molding troops while I served and none of my amn were slackers, because I didn't allow it. Before you go slandering the entire US military I suggest you go talk to your Chief and ask how YOU can make a difference. Christ, you're describing the problem and acting like nothing can be done about it. That's the whole problem with your entire damn generation. Always waiting for someone else to do everything for you.

WD

I did not mean to insult you or your family or the military. Who the f*** are you to make cracks about me being a staff? You are insulting me. The only way you should be offended by this, is if you or people in your family are slackers.
For your info, I have been talking to my supervisor about what I can do. I do everything to the best of my abilities. I asked to be the head of the fitness program for our unit, I did youth camp this summer, hell I begged to go to the Gulf. I DO make sure my airman do their s***. We don't have a problem with this kind of stuff in my guard unit because I am a good leader, but more importantly, every up my chain are good leaders. That's why we have one of the best guard units in the Air Force.
Most of what I was talking about was from the active duty side. I was an airman when I was active duty up until the end, so I couldn't be a supervisor. You think they are going to listen to an A1C or a SrA? I make a point to be a good supervisor because I know what it's like to have a s*** one.
You said why don't I get a different job if I'm unhappy? I DID. I said that's the reason I'm in the guard now and not active duty, and I love the guard.
You cracking on me for making staff is no different than what I said...you are no better.
I'm sorry I offended you. That was not my intent.

What I was saying is you shouldn't vote for someone just because they were in the military. That would be like voting for someone just because they are white. If I say don't vote for someone just because they are white, because some white people are rapists, doesn't mean I'm slandering all of white people.

But go on, keep judging me. You clearly know everything about me.

[WDRacing]

Who am I to insult you? I push back when pushed.

Yeah I get that you went Guard cause you were unhappy, but in my eyes you quit when it was your turn to man up. There are personalities that are successful in the Military and ones that aren't. If you think going Guard and then complaining that the Military is a haven for lazy people you aren't someone I'd want to deploy with.

I'm only judging you on what you show dude. Reread your first post and tell me you're not insulting all of my friends that gave their lives in a violent manner so you could whine about how lazy the Military has become. You don't have to intend to do anything.

What was your career fld? Did you ever get stationed oversea's? It's obvious your unit sucked balls and for that I'm sorry. I'm just sayin, your first post was ugly dude and it offends.

I never said Military experience was something that should sway anyone's vote either. People should examine every facet of anyone running for anything.

*EDIT*

I over react sometimes, especially when the subject is personal. Let me say this, perhaps you shouldn't pass judgment on the entire US Military because of your time spent with one unit while you were active duty. It's a bummer your unit sucked, but that doesn't mean they all do.

[vikesfankevin1986]

I did reread my first post a few times after I read your message. To be honest, I did have a little to drink before typing that. I thought I mentioned that I was in the military. I might have been a little harsh but after rereading it a few times I still do not believe I was talking bad about the military as a whole.
I understand you being upset in your first post, but it was your reply that pissed me off. You seemed to crack on me more AFTER you found out I was in the Air Force.
What branch are you in? I guess I can honestly only speak for the Air Force, but yes there are a lot of lazy people in the Air Force.

My career field is services, so yes I "flip burgers." I know it isn't very well respected by anyone in the Air Force that hasn't been deployed. Yes, I was staioned overseas. I was stationed in Germany for 2 years, I was also stationed at Langley AFB for about 2 years. At both bases we got an outstanding unit award, but they were both also command bases. Which means everyone was always worried about kissing someone elses a**. Those were crappy bases and they threw people to the curb. I wonder what my career would be like if I had went to Ellsworth or something.
I also deployed to Kyrgyzstan and the United Arab Emerates...I know it's not Iraq, but as you know, I don't get to choose where they send me.
Even though my main job is cooking, I actually did very little cooking. I did lodging/mortuary on deployments and fitness back home. At langley I spend most of my time in the Honor Guard...
I said this in another post that someone pissed me off in...

I lived in Germany for 2 years. I deployed to Kyrgyzstan, where we supported the troops going in and out of Afganistan. Working in services, mortuary is part of my job. It was my job to re-ice the bodies that came in. I saw the faces of the men who died in a chopper crash on the news and then had to open the transfer case to re-ice them. We then guarded the bodies all night and loaded them onto the plane. While in Germany I also re-iced bodies. Burnt flesh isn't a nice smell...neither is a transfer case full of blood at the bottom. You ever seen a body bag that you can tell has a body with the head missing?
From there I went to Virginia where I was on the Honor Guard. We preformed funeral services for fallen veterans. Personally, I like to be the one of the guys in the 21 guns, but if I was the head of it I had to present the flag to the next of kin. Presenting a flag to a crying mother, who just lost her 25 year old son isn't easy. Try remembering the words you are supposed to say while looking into her crying eyes.
I went on another deployment to the United Arab Emerates...The mission of that base is to fly spy planes out over Iraq and Afganistan to warn the army soldiers of upcomming ambushes. That base is responsible for saving hundreds of lives. Not to mention, our OSI at that base prevent what could have been a huge disaster at the Dubai Air Show.

So no, I'm no war hero, but I did my part and I did what I could and I am proud of it. When I went into the guard I ASKED to be services. I wouldn't want any other job in the Air Force. Maybe I didn't stick out active duty as long as I should have, but even you should know that the military isn't for everyone. It was hard on my relationship and it didn't work out with the path I wanted to take in life. I don't fault anyone for making it a career, but it wasn't for me. Either way, I did my 4 years and 2 deployments, without a gun to my head. And I contiune to do my part with the guard.

Once again , I apologize for offending you. I still believe there are lazy people in the military, but obviously I came off a little too strong (I have a bad habbit of that.) I will try not to post stuff after I have been drinking. I will say it again...I did not intend to offend anyone.