Does anyone have any pics of a VH with stock manifolds on a stand?

[elwesso]

Reason I ask is because I was thinking it might be kind of sexy to take a set of stock exhaust manifolds, hack off the precat and weld a flange on right there, however I dont know if thatd get you high enough for a good oil drain?

[gs14racer]

here best one i have

[elwesso]

Do you think that you could hack it off right at the precat and mount a turbo there and be well above the oil pan?

[Mettler]

Would you have room for that in a Q? Think about all the intake piping...

[mtcookson]

If nothing else you could use a scavenge pump. The electric ones out there should be enough to pull the oil out of two turbos.

[elwesso]

I dont wanna do that. Id find a new place to put the turbos before i did one of those stupid scavenger pump things.

[elwesso]

Would you have room for that in a Q? Think about all the intake piping...

Blow through MAF = WIN.

[Mettler]

Really? Why is that? Isn't the same volume of air passing through it anyway? If it's to do with temperature, wouldn't you want the MAF after the intercooler has had its effect on the temperature of the intake charge?

[elwesso]

Its just easier. Otherwise I have to plumb intake pipes all the way and run them into a single for the MAF. WIth this, all I have to do is run a couple of cone filters off the compressors and I can put them whever I want.

with the MAF between the intercooler and TB on the pressure side it seems like itd be better. You dont have to have a recirulating BOV (should you need a BOV) and its probably more accurate measurement of the air getting into the motor, and if you happen to get a boost leak or something like that, you could at least run the car. Otherwise the car would be pretty much crippled.

[Mettler]

Hmmm, there seem to be a lot of positives to doing this, but I'll bet there is a catch to it as well. I'll make some enquiries and see what I can find out.

[elwesso]

I already posted a thread about this and a lot of the guys said that the main issue is that the car has a tendency to run lean, however in that case i think they were talking about moving the MAF from the suction side to the pressure side without changing the tune. Also, they said that the air is more turbulent and the least amount of turbulance occurs right after the air filter. On a single turbo id say itd be easier to run it on the intake side, but on twins i think itd be way too hard.

[mtcookson]

You can also convert to a MAP sensor, these have pretty good reviews. http://www.maftpro.com/

[elwesso]

Thanks Mark, that might be the way to go when it comes time for more boost but I think keeping the motor stock (injectors) it may be easier to just use a MAF.

[mtcookson]

Just throwing out random ideas.



I'm tempted to try that thing out some time. I really like the idea of an auto-tune using a wideband. I would use that mostly for cruising most likely but I've always wondered why nothing like that has been done yet... so to speak. The MR2 Spyder guys were actually working on an auto tuning ecu but I never really kept track of it much.

[elwesso]

That works as a standalone or a piggy back? Id assume a piggy back. Regardless and auto-tune sorta thing would be golden. I assume youd need to make your own timing maps for boost and set up the ECU for proper injector size and such, but still seems like a grand idea.

[Mettler]

On a single turbo id say itd be easier to run it on the intake side, but on twins i think itd be way too hard.

Yeah that's why you run twin AFMs and run the signal together into one, and then edit the ECU's setting for the AFM accordingly. I've forgotten what it is because I haven't done any ECU tuning/configuration yet... but JP has been changing it all around for an RB30DET with a custom modified AFM and has been getting very good results.

[mtcookson]

That works as a standalone or a piggy back? Id assume a piggy back. Regardless and auto-tune sorta thing would be golden. I assume youd need to make your own timing maps for boost and set up the ECU for proper injector size and such, but still seems like a grand idea.

Its a piggy back. Most say its between the Apex'i S-AFC and Emanage Ultimate (pretty close to the EU IMO). Has many more features than the S-AFC but has some features that the EU doesn't and doesn't have some that the EU does.

I believe you're right about the timing, I don't think that unit will do it (that's one of the things the EU will do over the MAFt). Fuel wise I believe it will adjust for +/- 60% or, since we have 370's, upwards of ~590-ish... though, I've been wondering if one couldn't just tune the stock ECU for whatever you had on there then add this thing on for the all of the features it has. Basically if you re-tune your stock ECU for 550's, I would think that this could then control injectors upwards of 880 cc... not that would you would need or want to. I'd mostly use it for the auto tuning, MAP conversion, and possibly boost control. Though, that could just be adding way too many electronic gadgets to the car in the end.

[elwesso]

I wish there was just a simple way to translate MAP that would just plug into the Q MAF port, so you could just use the stock ECU and not bother with any of that other crap.. Really I dont want it do all that junk, however it is kind of interesting. It sorta seems to me if you want it to do that much you might as well just keep the stock ECU or get a full standalone..

THe thing that concerns me is that if you try and fool the ECU and tell the MAFT pro thingy that theres bigger injectors it may not idle right or have real good driveability. Meaning if you had the ECU programmed for 370s but you put in 555s.... Seems like it wouldnt idle real well but run real nice at WOT.

I liked the idea that mettler had, if you start running into those issues, just double the cross sectional area of the MAF and half the voltage at the ECU. However the stock MAF is good to like 600HP or something crazy so its all good.

IF you have a good tune you shouldnt need it to auto-tune because thats the reason you have MAP or MAF in the first place.

Im looking at the spec list and im trying to figure out what it does that would make me want to buy it. The boost control is kinda neat but there are a lot of other boost controllers that do that. The data logging is pretty cool but it does about everything that you could od with one of the consults. IMO its more of a thing for someone to get going thats easy to use.. I think that someone would use this as a stepping stone to a better way of tuning. No turbo timer either, kinda disappointing, thatd be pretty cool if it had that built in.

Theres plenty of software out there that will let you do runs with a wideband and then analyze...

[elwesso]

ok I went out and did some measurements, these are pretty conservative and pretty rough as well.. On the drivers side from the frame to the first point of contact right above the precat is about 8.5 in, lets call it 8 to be safe. On the passenger side its about 7in. I dont know if you could run a 2in pipe on the drivers side with the manifolds in the way, the passenger side is close, you might be able to smash a 2 in pipe so its oblong to get it to clear, but once its past the manifolds its home free, theres nothing else in the way that couldnt be moved a tiny bit... The drivers side is doable theres just a bunch of crap in the way that makes it tough to tell.. It makes it a lot easier to tell on my Q since the battery is already removed.

The next option is flipping the exhaust manifolds and mounting the turbos where the battery and airbox go. That might be an easier setup and youd get much better oil draining... However it might be tough to plumb the downpipes... Also another question is will the manifolds clear the engine and the frame? Maybe? its hard to visualize that, youd almost have to slide the motor in with it like that. However youd have a mile of clearance from the X member. Honestly, i dont really like this setup that much because id like to go as stealthy as possible on a Q. If its our only option, fine but id like to have them tucked away where only the trained eye can see them.

Dual 3in exhaust would be pretty sexy on a Q

Also, as a side note I dont really think that making custom manifolds will really get you anywhere if you wanted to mount the turbos toward the back of the motor under the motor.. I dont really think you could mount the turbos much higher than what the stock manifolds would let you because then youre basically in the head. I didnt measure vertical clearance ill save that for another time.

All in all, regardless of what people say I think this is a very possible project, and with the motor on the stand mounted to the X member a lot could be told. You could probably almost plumb it up entirely on the stand keeping everything as close to the motor as possible.

[Mettler]

Don't forget about the all important need for things to be reachable with tools, and ease of adjustment.

[defrag010]

another thing to think about with AFC's and piggybacks that control the maf signal - that also changes your timing.Bigger injectors, so the AFC lowers the map voltage and the ecu thinks that less air is coming in, therefore less load, therefore more timing.That is a big problem with DSM tuners, is the crazy amounts of timing you end up with after altering the maf signal for way larger injectors.

I looked into flipping my stock manifolds, and based on the way the exhaust flanges are tilted, the only way you can run the exhaust to the front of the car is if the manifolds are pointed down like they are stock. Not sure about a Q, but in my rx7 this caused major problemos.

[elwesso]

did you ever try flipping them on a VH45?