Documentation of Problems with Infiniti XM NavTraffic Implementation on 2010/11 vehicles

I discussed this issue briefly (and poorly - I apologize) on another thread, and wanted to break it out to see if anyone else with a 2011 M37, 2011 M56, 2010 FX35, 2010 FX50, or 2011 QX56 has experienced the same behavior from XM NavTraffic. If you have one of those preceding vehicles and it exhibits the same behavior as I describe below, please respond. (If you have a 2008/09 Infiniti, no need to respond because I know your system works perfectly.)

If a majority of responses indicate that this is unusual to my own vehicle, then I can go back to my dealership and show them that my M56 navigation behaves differently than other vehicles with the same hardware. But if everyone reports that you're experiencing the same problems, it will provide support to my trouble ticket with Infiniti so that perhaps their software engineers will make the necessary updates to the program.

The post is long only because I wanted to be as detailed as possible so there's no confusion like on the other thread. Also, please don't read any ulterior motives into this post - I own both a 2011 M56 and a 2010 FX, and previously owned a 2008 M45 and 2006 FX, so I'm a big fan of Infiniti. But on this one issue, I keep getting the run-around, even when I demonstrate the problem in-person to supposedly qualified technicians.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION:

On the 2011 M and certain other 2010/11 models, XM NavTraffic rarely (if ever) warns verbally about urgent traffic problems on a route; doesn't indicate where green "traffic flowing" conditions exist along a route (and therefore never shows traffic conditions along an entire route); frequently doesn't show adverse traffic conditions under "Info on Route" that inexplicably do appear under "Nearby Traffic Info"; and often takes a significant amount of time to display any XM NavTraffic data at all, even though it appears to be downloading the data instantly.

The preceding problems occur even when the Traffic Indicator (the word "Traffic" in Map view in the upper left) is consistently green, which indicates reception of data is good.

Finally, when saying "Traffic Information" using Voice Recognition, the system toggles the Traffic Information System functionality on/off instead of displaying the main Traffic Information screen (with 'Info on Route' and 'Nearby Traffic Info') – just as saying "Weather Information" properly displays the main list of weather information (instead of turning that system on/off).

COMPARISONS:

(1) XM NavWeather works like XM NavTraffic should work, immediately notifying the driver of adverse weather conditions only seconds after the system initializes;

(2) On my 2008 M45, XM NavTraffic worked perfectly – verbally warning about congestion, accidents, or other incidents within seconds of my setting a destination; and showing traffic along an entire route (including the green "traffic flowing" sections).

DISCLAIMERS:

Before describing the detailed steps one takes to reproduce the XM NavTraffic problems found in the navigation system installed in the 2011 M, 2010 FX, and 2011 QX, let me address the four excuses most frequently given by Infiniti customer service: (1) I haven't enabled 'Traffic Announcement' and 'Use Traffic Info' under Traffic Info Settings; (2) I may be driving in an area with little-to-no XM NavTraffic coverage; (3) XM's satellites may be slow in my area, or weather is affecting the data transfer to my system; (4) Service campaign ITB10-031 fixes this.

In regards to those four excuses: (1) in every 2010/11 vehicle I've tested at various dealerships and friends' homes, I've made sure that all traffic functions are enabled, and that each vehicle has a current, active NavTraffic subscription; (2) Los Angeles – which is where I've tested every vehicle – has full XM NavTraffic coverage; (3) A similarly-equipped 2008/09 Infiniti downloads, processes, displays, and acts on NavTraffic data immediately with no satellite delay, while a 2010/11 Infiniti doesn't; (4) Voluntary service campaign ITB10-031 was applied to both my 2011 M56 and 2010 FX50 and made no difference.

DETAILS AND VERIFICATION:

Here is a typical weekday morning for me in my 2008 M45:

(i) I start the car and pull out of my driveway; (ii) about 30 seconds later I set the destination for work; (iii) the system calculates the route and verbally tells me that guidance has started; (iv) the system then immediately verbally tells me, "warning: traffic congestion in 9 miles" because there's always traffic on I-405 South in the morning on weekdays; (v) I navigate to the main Traffic Information screen and select "Info on Route," which immediately shows me that traffic is green for the first 7 miles, then yellow at the 7-mile mark, then red at the 9-mile mark, then green at the 12-mile mark where I merge onto Route 101 North through to my destination. This happened consistently for the entire two years I had my 2008 M45.

Now here is my typical weekday morning in my 2011 M56 (and also my wife's 2010 FX50):

(i) I start the car and pull out of my driveway; (ii) about 30 seconds later I set the destination for work; (iii) the system calculates the route and verbally tells me that guidance has started; (iv) since I don't hear a verbal warning, I navigate to the main Traffic Information screen and select "Info on Route," which displays the message "No traffic information has been received"; (v) since that didn't work, I select "Nearby Traffic Info," which also returns "No traffic information has been received"; (vi) after trying a few more times over the course of 2-4 minutes, eventually "Nearby Traffic Info" displays yellow and red conditions on various nearby freeways, including the portions of I-405 South on my set route; (vii) I go back and select "Info on Route," but still get the message "No traffic information has been received" even though I just saw relevant traffic data under "Nearby Traffic Info"; (viii) I give up and cancel the route.

One could argue that this is a coincidence…that XM just happened to change something at the exact time the 2011 M was released. But my wife had her 2010 FX50 while I was still driving my 2008 M45, and when driving side-by-side with my wife's FX50, my XM NavTraffic would work perfectly as always while my wife's FX50 would only show "No traffic information has been received" – sometimes even when we were stuck in stand-still traffic on the highway!

Infiniti customer service and two dealerships have confirmed that the navigation system used in the 2011 M is the same one used in the 2010 FX and 2011 QX, and are different than the navigation systems used in the 2008/09 model years of the same vehicles. So it's no coincidence that XM NavTraffic works as expected in all 2008/09 model Infinitis, but doesn't work in all 2010/11 model Infinitis.

There was some discussion on the other thread that the fix for this problem may have been contained in a recent voluntary service campaign ITB10-031, but that the relevant data disc in that set of updates (#2 of 3, a yellow disc) couldn't be installed if the vehicle brought in for the update had NAVTEQ map data "09-10 MAP No.1b" – which all Infinitis manufactured in 2010 have. Those posts made no sense to me, so I've now been to three dealerships and they all verified that ITB10-031 was properly installed on both my M56 and FX50, and that no additional voluntary service campaigns or other solutions are currently available to fix this problem.

So there you have it; I hope it wasn't too long-winded. But if what I describe above is indeed happening on every 2010/11 Infiniti with a navigation system, it's a rather big deal, don't you think?! I'm sure XM/Sirius would like to know this is a problem, because if customers aren't signing up for NavTraffic but only giving an explanation that "it doesn't work," XM/Sirius may not be aware that the implementation of their product is inferior on the 2010/11 Infinitis as compared to the 2008/09 Infinitis. Then I bet it'll get fixed!

Same issue here...infact I thought it was supposed to voice the traffic issues but since I never had this system in my Lexus didn't realize there was something wrong....works exactly as you state.....Loving the car though... M37 in Malbac Black.

I have had my Infiniti M37 since April of 2010 and have experienced three differnt major problem areas; the transmission, the navigation sytem, and the windows. The transmission issues have been covered extensively in several other forums. Mine has been re-programmed several times which has resulted in substantial improvement but still remains with some glitches. The windows need to be reprogrammed so frequently that my service technician has taught me how to do it myself thus saving me trips to the dealership. The last failure, however, resulted in the replacement of the left rear power window motor.

The navigation system at this time is my major area of concern. I am experiencing all the same issues as you and more. I live about 8 miles west of Palm Beach, Florida and am in a covered area. The system in my prior Infiniti, a 2007 G-35s functioned flawlessly so my problem has to be in the design of my current system. Even after a reprogram it is extremely slow to load and to function. I keep getting the same error messages that you are getting as well.

My biggest concern is that both the maps and hence the guidance are hopelessly out of date leading to some hair raising experiences. I am frequently told to remain to my right to continue on a road when remaing right puts me on the exit. My system fails to show a fairly major road in my area that shows on a 2003 AAA map. It has shown me driving off the road when using lanes added to I-95 more than 4 years ago and shows the wrong speed limit. It has told me to turn at a road name that was changed 7 years ago. For all these issues there is no map update available. So far I have been given at least four different dates to expect an update which have come and gone. The last date they gave me is the end of this year which would mean at the earliest I will have been driving more than 50% of my lease term with an outdated and dangerous map. The 2012 M is using the same map as the 2011.

Allstate Insurance has a wonderful commercial very tastefully dealing with driving with an outdated GPS system. If you Google "Allstate Insurance Commercials" and go to the GPS one, you will see what I am talking about. So far neither my dealer nor Infiniti Consumer affairs have been any help. I'm seriously thinking about invoking the Lemon Law. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.

Your description is accurate.. Mine performs the same as yours. I would be thrilled to have it fixed and working properly.. Pls keep us posted..

Bienster wrote:I'm seriously thinking about invoking the Lemon Law. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act doesn't extend to navigation systems - it's intended for chronic, unresolved mechanical issues.

Blast, great thread. Let me know if you need some assistance getting the word out for more input.

AZhitman wrote:Blast, great thread. Let me know if you need some assistance getting the word out for more input.

I've called Infiniti Consumer Affairs and NAVTEQ once every month since August 2010 when I got the car. I've spoken with my dealership, and even two higher-level people at Infiniti (who correctly thought that speaking with me personally about the various M issues would cut down on my posting online every which way but loose about such issues).

Despite all of this, and despite hearing from others like Bienster and M56Cruizin who have also contacted Consumer Affairs, it seems we're getting nowhere.

I love the Infiniti brand, and I want it to be the best product it can possibly be. So when I continue to experience ridiculous problems with the XM NavTraffic system and read that Infiniti is the only car manufacturer still stuck on 2009 NAVTEQ maps for its 2010-2012 model years, I get sad, annoyed, and disappointed. When the 2012 M35h was released and the only real concerns of mine addressed were that the sun visors now bend all the way forward, Call Waiting is restored, and the throttle mapping has been improved, I just get disgusted. (Luckily, Infiniti gave me a beta version of software that corrects the endless download time of traffic data so I'm a bit happier, but I haven't heard of a final release for this, and I don't know if the other problems have been addressed if there is...especially with the awful earthquake and tsunami aftermath cutting into Infiniti's resources.)

I don't want to buy a Lexus LS. I don't want to buy a Mercedes-Benz E550. I don't want to buy an Audi A8. I also don't want to buy an Acura TL, Ford Taurus SHO, or Cadillac STS (all of which don't even have V8s available, but have some amazing tech). But if Infiniti is going to just ignore things like current maps for the nav; avoid updating the tech to include Around-View Monitor, heads-up display, and robust voice commands; and continue to allow minor issues -- like a backwards side mirror fold switch, no side mirror signal lights, no daytime running lights, and the inability to set the intervention systems to always be on automatically like the warning systems -- take away from the 420HP V8, BSI, BSW, FCW, DCA, LDW, LDP, IBA, Malbec Black exterior, Forest Air, etc, then I just might buy a competitor.

So, AZhitman, if you have a way to get Infiniti's ear, and you think it would help, I heartily encourage you to go for it! I can't tell you how annoyed I was driving a Lincoln MSK rental this past week and finding features in a $20,000-less car that I've been dying for in my Infiniti (like around-vehicle parking sonar; a sound system with real oomph and excellent speed-sensitive volume; and a rear window sun visor switch I can actually reach) - even though it's still in many ways definitely a $20k step down from the M56. I just didn't expect to like it as much as I did, and sorta felt like I was cheating on my M56 with a lesser girl who still put out and did it well

Just picked up a 2012 M37, now I know why new roads open at least two years do not appear. Same issue with side maker turn signals, running lights and lackluster interior lighting. Very disappointing for a car in that price range. Frankly it just pisses me off. If Infiniti wants BMW owners as myself to continue to change they need to pay attention.

Flyboy413 wrote:Just picked up a 2012 M37, now I know why new roads open at least two years do not appear. Same issue with side maker turn signals, running lights and lackluster interior lighting. Very disappointing for a car in that price range. Frankly it just pisses me off. If Infiniti wants BMW owners as myself to continue to change they need to pay attention.

If it pisses you off soooo bad, why the hell did you buy it?

I just upgraded my map disc (I have an 07) to the 2010-2011 and havent seen a wrong/missing road yet. Im in sales and drive 200-600 miles a day and cover 6 states.

Wow! Thank you all for your thoughful replies. I'm just blown away by the by the sincerity and thoughfulness of the people on this site as compared with some of the other sites. You all mentioned many items about which I complained on other sites only to be resoundingly criticized. Sadly, I leased my M37 when they first came out and had very little time to evaluate it because the 2007 G35s I was driving was a 6MT and because of severe knee issues was having great difficulty driving. Since this M was our 5th Infiniti since 2003 and the prior vehicles proved to be the best thing since sliced bread and chocolate ice cream, I saw no reason to scrutinize the vehicle.

Boy was that ever a mistake. Each of the prior 4 vehicles were loaded with lots of little extra touches whereas in the case of the M37 it seems to be "how much can we take out before the buyer cries uncle?" My wife is driving our 2006 M35 and except for tires (Florida roads are tough on tires) and a battery we have done nothing but normal maintenance. The car has been a dream since day one while the new car has been nothing but a nightmare.

On leaving the dealer after taking delivery of the M37 I couldn't locate the switch to turn the compass on in the mirror. I called the dealer and they explained that with navigation the only compass was on the map screen. That compass is about 60% the size of a dime and can barely be read while driving. All the car manufacturers are adding side marker turning signals to either the mirrors or front fenders. The 2006 M35 has them on the fenders but the 2011 M37 has none. The 2006 M35 has double sun visors with extensions on the driver's side while the 2011 M37 has single "Yugo" style sliding visors. The 2006 M35 has a split, adjustable center arm rest up front but the 2011 M37 has only a single non adjustable one. I guess to make up for all this they give you a heated steering wheel. Just what I need in southern Florida. Why they didn't reserve that for the M37x I'll never figure out. As to the transmission and navigation issues, they had 5 full years since their last redo of the model. Why they introduced the new model without getting the bugs out is beyond me. They certainly shot themselves in the foot with this one!

Thank you all for your careing, thoughful replies. The more posts we get on these issues, the more likely Infiniti is to get the message although this is surely my last Infiniti. I have asked them to repurchase the car and expect an answer within 10 days. Like the Allstate commercial I think driving with a seriously out of date navigation system is potentially very dangerous. One remedy not mentioned is section 2-314 of The Uniform Commercial Code which is entitled "The Implied Warranty of Merchantability." It is in effect in every state except Louisiana and says that a product should be free of defects and be fit for the ordinary purpose for which it is sold. Since you can't sever the navigation system from the rest of the car, if you exercise the right of recision which is your choice under the law, you have to return the whole car.

Keep those posts coming.

sunoco wrote:I just upgraded my map disc (I have an 07) to the 2010-2011 and havent seen a wrong/missing road yet. Im in sales and drive 200-600 miles a day and cover 6 states.

That's because you have a 2007 M35, which has a DVD-based navigation system. All Infinitis 2009 and earlier have 2010-2011 maps available via DVD.

But the 2010-2012 Infinitis with the hard drive-based navigation systems are stuck in 2009. NAVTEQ has yet to release an update, and keeps lying about when one will be available.

Infiniti is the only manufacturer installing 2009 maps on 2012 model years. It's just sad.

Flyboy413 wrote:Just picked up a 2012 M37, now I know why new roads open at least two years do not appear. Same issue with side maker turn signals, running lights and lackluster interior lighting. Very disappointing for a car in that price range. Frankly it just pisses me off. If Infiniti wants BMW owners as myself to continue to change they need to pay attention.

Make sure to contact both Infiniti Consumer Affairs and your dealership's manager and tell them about these problems. The more people who do this, the more likely Infiniti will give these deficiencies some attention. I've already told my local Infiniti dealership that my next car will be the Lexus LS500 (August 2012 release, right near the end of my lease) unless Infiniti gets its act together.

Bienster wrote:Wow! Thank you all for your thoughful replies. I'm just blown away by the by the sincerity and thoughfulness of the people on this site as compared with some of the other sites. You all mentioned many items about which I complained on other sites only to be resoundingly criticized.

As sunoco demonstrates above, not everyone on this forum is sincere, thoughtful, and friendly (or necessarily knowledgeable - but definitely opinionated). You'll get resoundingly criticized here too by certain people with bad attitudes and an inability to accept that their "perfect" brand has flaws.