Do we need to get Osama?

[heliochrome85]

This is entirely my thinking and nothing more than a bit of tired pontificating....

I have been talking a bit with a couple friends down here, oddly enough some are marines, and some are members of the Israeli Army. In any case, i have been thinking about the goal of going after Osama Bin Laden. The way i see it, i suspect the reason he is still around is in part to be a poster child for the Islamist threat to the US. That being said, is he really still in a position to pose a threat to the US? For you of those who actually are educated in this area, CZ for one, where am i wrong and where am i right? Dont get me wrong, i want him gone as much as you guys do, but is his removal the breaking point for alqaeda as is often said? I think not.

[leesredgt]

I agree with you.While yes we need to get Osama, capturing or killing him wont crumble alqaeda.If he is killed he will be looked upon as a martyr,and will provide his follower's with more proof that they need to continue the fight and that its all worth while.

[smockers83]

Well it depends on how smart the man is and consequently how well he has set up his chain of command and if the remaining followers are truly confident in the ideals if Osama were captured or killed. If his organization is well built, his capture/death may not mean a whole lot. But at the same time, history teaches us that a lot of these types of groups can easily be dismantled with the removal of the leader. There could be a possible chain of command, but a leader of these types of groups usually has so much power over the group that if removed, the group may go into disarray and confidence is lost.

In terms of recent history, Hitler had a good system set but his removal from it led to its demise plus a falling confidence level. Same could be said of Hussein and the Ba'ath party. For Osama, only way to know is if we capture/kill him or just see if he dies (recent intelligence says he's not doing so well).

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't believe that the goal of snatching Osama has much to do with stopping terrorism anymore. That is NOT to say that I don't think it's a top priority. I'll explain.

Osama Bin Laden, evil mass murderer that he may be, is NOT stupid. His ultimate goal is to instigate full-blown war between the West and the Islamic world. I don't for one second believe that he'd be so negligent in the pursuit of that goal to have set up his organization in such a way that it could not function if he were gone. In fact, I think that he likely has had very little to do with recent Al Qaeda operations and has probably set the organization up to run without him long, long ago.

That said, we MUST get him, even if it has zero impact on future terrorlst acts. It's a political thing, and a morale thing. Capturing or killing Bin Laden would ramp up morale and support for the anti-terror cause both here and among our allies. Even if tactically meaningless, his capture or death would lend credibility to the idea that the war on terror is a winnable war (which I think it is).

We MUST get him. Obama MUST get him, period. I think he understands that.

[marlin29311]

I agree - its something that must be done, and will have an impact. It's impossible for it not to - even though he may have delegated authority to other levels of the organization, the leader still retains power and control. Hash brings up another point of the morale issue for the US and the rest of the world.

Cut the head off the snake, the body dies...

[Cold_Zero]

I think that the United States Government and the rest of the world are doing a pretty good job in cracking down on these terrorlst cells. If you think about it, we went from open terrorlst camps in Libya, Sudan and Afghanistan to Libya and Sudan (not to say there are still not problems in Sudan) joining the World Wide Community and the Taliban has been rooted from power and pushed back over the border into Pakistan. One area that still needs work by the Lebanese government are shutting down the terrorlst camps in the Beka'a Valley.

Osama bin Laden was just a financier. He totally sucked at commanding troops and when his Arab fighters were deployed in Afghanistan against the Russians, they were routed. He has held to this stupid Arab fighter idea that is never really worked on a massive scale. One of the real reasons why Osama hates the United States is that he was snubbed by the Saudi Royal family during the Invasion of Kuwait by the Iraqis. Osama bin Laden wanted to put together an all Arab Mujahideen to defend the Kingdom and drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait. Now the Saudis (not being stupid) laughed at the idea and went to the West for help. This caused bin Laden to get his feelings hurt and declare war on the west (the infidels in the Holy Land) and against the Royals. The Saudis nearly assassinated bin Laden in Sudan, too bad they didn't. If he did not have the money that he has from his family's construction company, he would be nothing. He would be in Yemen right now sweating his *** off. Now this doesn't mean that the people he associates with aren't dangerous, but he is just a financier. Do we still need to catch Osama bin Laden? I believe we need to bring him to justice, so that the World can see that Justice has been served. But we need to be prepared, if we do bring him to justice, that people will make bin Laden a martyr. If we are ok with that and the prospect that $25 million dollars in reward money could go to some unpleasant people, then we need to move forward and bring him to justice. Since 9-11 I have always advocated that if we really wanted Osama bin Laden, the US Government should put a pallet of 1 billion dollars tax free, no questioned asked, in the J Edgar Hoover building in DC and announce it to the world. I guarantee you that for 1 billion dollars someone will find him and bring Osama bin Laden in to the J Edgar Hoover building wearing a dress.

[hannibal]

I dont believe Osama is running anything but his scared arse thru caves. He cannot communicate with anyone other than by word of mouth. He is essentially powerless.

I still think he should be pursued...

[S13_love]

This caused bin Laden to get his feelings hurt and declare war on the west (the infidels in the Holy Land) and against the Royals.

I find it funny that these cave dwellers declare war against the most powerful country ...apparently, they are lacking any sort of logic or common sense for that matter

[Cold_Zero]

Yet these 'cave dwellers' were able to blow up the USS Cole in Yemen, coordinate two bombings in Tanzania and Kenya, bomb the WTC (unsuccessfully), knock down the WTC, hit the Pentagon. All against the most powerful nation in the world.

*shrug* I am sure that Umayyad Caliphate thought that the audacity of a few thousand Franks standing their ground against the powerful empire that stretched from Pakistan (Central Asia) through North Africa and into Spain was futile. Until Charles Martel stopped the Muslims dead in their tracks at Tours and defended Western Civilization from their invasions.

[WDRacing]

I've spent time in several different countries tracking and killing terrorists from all sorts of factions. Bin Laden is definitely not the ring leader that most Americans think he is. He may lead an organized group, but there are SO many other factions that are completely unrelated to Bin Laden. Jihad is definitely not the only form of hate against the US.

He's definitely the poster boy and I think we've had the chance to kill him and didn't. That's my personal opinion and I can't support it with fact. But I do know that we've tracked, caught and flipped many many people that have given us loads of Intel.

My squadron personally snagged one of the head bomb makers of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) while we were in the Philippines trying to rescue a couple of teachers that were taken hostage, back in 02 IIRC. Unfortunately, one of them caught a bullet on the extraction But it was one of those, go in now or watch them get beheaded on YouTube kinda things. SOB's...all of them.

We had T-Shirts made, "Got Milf" , on the back with a picture of a black hawk with guns blazing

Anyway, if Osama were to get wacked today, the war on terror wouldn't end. It's never going to end...that's the thing. There's enough HATE in the world to destroy everyone 5 times over, throughout history only a few things ring true, one happens to be that it's in our nature to kill each other. Thank God I'm American, cause at least we carry a big stick

WD

[WDRacing]

*shrug* I am sure that Umayyad Caliphate thought that the audacity of a few thousand Franks standing their ground against the powerful empire that stretched from Pakistan (Central Asia) through North Africa and into Spain was futile. Until Charles Martel stopped the Muslims dead in their tracks at Tours and defended Western Civilization from their invasions.

It should also be noted that the process of Islamization was occuring long before the Crusades. In fact, the Crusades were in a large part, fought for the recapture of lands taken during the conquering phase of Islamization. That's a little known fact, or atleast one that isn't brought up much. Everyone prefers to think of America and Christianity as the conquering force. For the record, we didn't start it...lol.

[480sx]

I think someone brought up an interesting point about Osamas 'Martyrdom'. It comes down to the question.. Do we really WANT to kill Osama, from a strategical POV. At this point the guy has less than 10 years to live. Living in caves and drinking rain water arnt great for an old terrorlst.

I would think that the backlash of a big USA 'Victory' of us catching Osama would be worse than anything Osama could ever possibly do in the rest of his life. Hes already achieved his main goal, we played right into his hands IMO. At this point hes running, hiding, out of communication with the terrorlst net, and generally useless.

I would say let the horrible SOB die in a cave somewhere.

[ishkabibble]

I think we need to get him, however insignificant he may be nowadays. Otherwise, he used as an Emmanual Goldstein-esque piece of propaganda, to keep people afraid.

[AZhitman]

I think we need to get him, however insignificant he may be nowadays. Otherwise, he used as an Emmanual Goldstein-esque piece of propaganda, to keep people afraid.

While I rarely agree with Teh Ish, truer words were never typed.

[LongBeachCoupe]

He must be caught ALIVE... IMO its more of a statement rather than "bringing down the terrorists"...

I also dont think he should be killed by US soldiers, but rather his beard shaved and be put in Gen Pop at Rikers Island with lipstick on.

[AZhitman]

I also dont think he should be killed by US soldiers, but rather his beard shaved and be put in Gen Pop at Rikers Island with lipstick on.

I CAN HAZ BACON?

[BusyBadger]

I also dont think he should be killed by US soldiers, but rather his beard shaved and be put in Gen Pop at Rikers Island with lipstick on.

I was thinking of something like a sex change operation and letting him live in a Taliban controlled area of Afghanistan.

[Combat Squirrel]

Believe me...we're going to get Osama. He's living on borrowed time.

[96Qowner]

I haven't been around for awhile and I popped in to see what's up and saw this thread. It's about one of my favorite arguing points.

No, I do NOT think we should or will "get" OBL. We have very little to gain by killing or capturing him and quite a bit to lose. He's a rallying figure. The more publicity he gets, the better it is for the cause of Radical Islam and the worse it is for everyone else.

He should just "disappear", never heard from again.

"OBL? Dunno what ever happened to him".

So far, so good.