Do I Leap?

[IBCoupe]

I had an interview yesterday for a new job; no idea whether they'll give me a second interview yet or a job offer after that, but I really need to start thinking, and I'm hoping that there's some on here that might have some decent advice.

I currently work a unionized defense job, making ~$51k/yr. I currently live in a pretty ritzy two-bedroom, two-bath apartment with in-unit laundry, and my share of the rent/bills brings me to $600/mo (pretty damned cheap for this area; can't speak for the rest of the US). My apartment is a half-mile from my work-place, and they give me no tuition-assistance (as it's not a technically-related degree). I'm practically assured to never lose this job unless I want to, and it's related to my undergraduate degree (B.S., Industrial Design)

But I'm going to law school at night, and that's a 110-mile round trip. It's only two nights a week this term (which ends this week), but starting at the end of August/beginning of September it'll be four nights a week. The new job would be at a large, Hartford-based insurance company, and starting salary is $44k/yr. It's a half-mile from campus, and they will refund me up to $6k/yr in tuition assistance, on the condition that I maintain a "B"-or-better average. My GPA is about a "B+", and that I've been able to maintain that without a single sleepless night in my first year is probably indicative that it won't change for the worse (that the school maintains a "B"-median rule doesn't hurt). I'd be doing a lot more "law" work, and I'd be talking with practicing lawyers regularly in many different parts of the country.

A few other things:
The pay cut scares me a bit, but I hope that the tuition assistance would bounce it back.

I don't want to leave my current apartment without giving my roommate ample time to secure a replacement (don't know what "ample time" would be, though).

A classmate told me that, a year after she joined the department in 2007, she received a $7k pay-increase, and the year after that, another $10k promotion, in addition to an annual bonus of between $2 and $3k. I'm explicitly not counting on these things to happen.

What are NICO's thoughts?

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Make sacrifices in the present to produce benefits in the future. Simple answer

[93coupe]

Damn, I thought this was a suicide thread.

[AppleBonker]

Personally, I'm all for short commutes. Giving back money can be tough though.

Do both companies realize that you probably wont be there after law school (I can only assume that is your plan)?

[IBCoupe]

Damn, I thought this was a suicide thread.

Well, that's option #3, and it's always been on the table, but I thought that went without saying.

Personally, I'm all for short commutes. Giving back money can be tough though.

Do both companies realize that you probably wont be there after law school (I can only assume that is your plan)?

They probably do (I know my immediate supervisor is keenly aware of it), but I haven't come anywhere close to ruling out a corporate position post-law school. Both companies have in-house legal departments. I'm not sure I want to be a litigator, and working for in-house counsel can often be a great way to make a decent living, practice law, and avoid court rooms and the complications and frustrations that come along with private practice.

[wingFeather]

Go for it.

[Eikon]

So you currently make $51k...
Your new job would pay you $44k + 6k for school.. So $50k...

A few questions for you:
-The 110 mile round trip equates to how much time? 2 hours of your day I assume? As you get into more difficult law courses, what will that time be worth to you?
-What's the difference in cost of living between your current situation and what you'd pay in the new location? If it's significantly more money to live in the new location, that coupled with the lower take home pay might be a difficult pill to swallow.
-What are your plans for after graduation? I assume you're a year to two years out from that point. Is either company (current defense company or new insurance company) a potential employer for you after you graduate? I guess I'm asking if it matters how stable your current union job is if you don't plan to keep it after you graduate... I'm assuming the big insurance company has a legal department.. have you explored the potential for promotion to that department upon graduation.... just considering long term implication of the employers you have to chose from.
-Friends/Family/GF/etc... Would moving from one city to the other have an impact on your proximity to the important people around you? Would your quality of life decrease if you moved to the new location?


Just a few questions to think about...

[IBCoupe]

Go for it.

As succint as that was, I really do appreciate the input. Sometimes a swift kick in the tochus is what's needed.

So you currently make $51k...
Your new job would pay you $44k + 6k for school.. So $50k...

A few questions for you:
-The 110 mile round trip equates to how much time? 2 hours of your day I assume? As you get into more difficult law courses, what will that time be worth to you?
-What's the difference in cost of living between your current situation and what you'd pay in the new location? If it's significantly more money to live in the new location, that coupled with the lower take home pay might be a difficult pill to swallow.
-What are your plans for after graduation? I assume you're a year to two years out from that point. Is either company (current defense company or new insurance company) a potential employer for you after you graduate? I guess I'm asking if it matters how stable your current union job is if you don't plan to keep it after you graduate... I'm assuming the big insurance company has a legal department.. have you explored the potential for promotion to that department upon graduation.... just considering long term implication of the employers you have to chose from.
-Friends/Family/GF/etc... Would moving from one city to the other have an impact on your proximity to the important people around you? Would your quality of life decrease if you
moved to the new location?

Just a few questions to think about...

Those are great points, Eikon.

- Yes, I do lose two hours each day, and were I to move up there, one of those two hours could be regained between work and school (as opposed to waking up to a five minute commute and then having a half hour after work before I have to make the trek up to school) and that's certainly something to be considered.
- The advantage of moving to the Hartford area is that there's such a wide array of neighborhood types that it's incredible. It seems that within a ten mile radius of West Hartford you can find urban, suburban, and rural living. That means I've probably got a bit of control over how much I'll pay.
- As I wrote in an above response, I've given the issue of future employment a little thought (but having only ~1 year of law school under my belt makes it hard to narrow down the type of law I'd like to pursue). Should they ask me to come in for a second interview, I'll definitely bring the shift to the legal department up there.
- I currently live 2.5 hours from my girlfriend, and the trip from my campus is 2 hours, so that's a bit closer. Also, it's significantly closer to all of my immediate family.

Thank you for raising all of those points. It's looking like this is a job I should take, if they offer it to me.

[Eikon]

Have you considered talking to your current employer about your decision before you make it? Only you will have a comfort level with that idea, and I have no idea what it's like to work in a union shop...
But, it can be a very good idea to speak with your current employer ahead of time. Especially if you know that you are a high value employee and doing well in your job.

I would consider asking for a sit down with your manager, and perhaps someone from human resources. Let them know that your education is a very high priority in your life and you are strongly considering making a job change to put you in a better position to manage your education. You also feel that there is a great opportunity to advance to the legal department of the new potential employer upon graduation. Tell them that you feel it's the right thing to do to have a conversation with them right now to discuss the situation. You want to learn more about potential future law jobs within your current company to help you properly weigh all your options.

If you are a valued employee (which I suspect you are), they will certainly understand and appreciate your situation. I would expect that they would try to keep you! I'm not sure what restrictions are in a place in a union shop, so that's hard to predict, but they might consider offering you a promotion or raise to entice you to stay. They might help form a plan to transition you into the legal department at some point as well. You never know...

I'm not saying you should walk in there and say, "give me a raise or I'm leaving". I just think that if you're leaning toward leaving, it would be a good idea to give you current employer some knowledge of your situation and an opportunity to make you a better offer to stay.

Also, don't say that you are planning to leave... just that you are considering other options. Sometime a statement can be misunderstood and they think you have already decided to quit, and they might escort you out of the building.. lol. Perhaps you wait until you have an offer on the table from the other employer...

[IBCoupe]

Have you considered talking to your current employer about your decision before you make it? Only you will have a comfort level with that idea, and I have no idea what it's like to work in a union shop...
But, it can be a very good idea to speak with your current employer ahead of time. Especially if you know that you are a high value employee and doing well in your job.

I would consider asking for a sit down with your manager, and perhaps someone from human resources. Let them know that your education is a very high priority in your life and you are strongly considering making a job change to put you in a better position to manage your education. You also feel that there is a great opportunity to advance to the legal department of the new potential employer upon graduation. Tell them that you feel it's the right thing to do to have a conversation with them right now to discuss the situation. You want to learn more about potential future law jobs within your current company to help you properly weigh all your options.

If you are a valued employee (which I suspect you are), they will certainly understand and appreciate your situation. I would expect that they would try to keep you! I'm not sure what restrictions are in a place in a union shop, so that's hard to predict, but they might consider offering you a promotion or raise to entice you to stay. They might help form a plan to transition you into the legal department at some point as well. You never know...

I'm not saying you should walk in there and say, "give me a raise or I'm leaving". I just think that if you're leaning toward leaving, it would be a good idea to give you current employer some knowledge of your situation and an opportunity to make you a better offer to stay.

Also, don't say that you are planning to leave... just that you are considering other options. Sometime a statement can be misunderstood and they think you have already decided to quit, and they might escort you out of the building.. lol. Perhaps you wait until you have an offer on the table from the other employer...

That's a good point and I hadn't thought about it. The union mentality is that you just sit here, continue to do your job, keep your mouth shut, and you're guaranteed periodic raises. I don't see any reason why I couldn't go ahead and sit down with my manager and HR, and that's something I can talk to my supervisor about doing.

I think waiting until at least I land the second interview before bringing that up, though. If all other doors are shut, making a peep now might not be in my best interest.

[Eikon]

I think waiting until at least I land the second interview before bringing that up, though. If all other doors are shut, making a peep now might not be in my best interest.

I agree 100%... Since discussing a possible job change with an employer is a bit of a calculated risk, you certainly want to make sure that the other option is very realistic. But, when the time comes, I think it can be a very wise and responsible action. If I were the employer, I would certainly like an opportunity to speak with my valued employees before they made up their mind. Turnover is expensive, and you never want to lose good talent, so there could be a number of things an employer could do to help you decide to stay with them.