DIY Security, which model to get for simple shock, sound, ignition? Any Manuals?

[Soravia]

I'm thinking of getting a security system and installing it instead of spending $200 at a shop. eBay suggest the prices are around $50 for the parts. Is it a good idea or am I getting myself into wiring hell?What I want is shock, door and glass sensor plus something to block the ignition. Also trunk/hood sensor would be a welcome addition but not necessary. I don't need tilt since I have ugly stock wheels :P (I focus more on the tires )

Thanks in advance.

[qsiguy]

You can get the parts for around that price. The alarm I sell every day for around $200 costs me under $50. Most of the cost in an alarm is labor. If you have some good basic electrical skills, some patience, this forum/internet for research, and the needed tools you can do it.

Don't be intimidated by all the wires on most alarms. Take them one at a time and figure out where it goes. You'll also find that about 1/3 of the wires, or more, won't be needed for your car.

[Soravia]

Mine is a bone stock. I'm thinking of getting $99 Installed tomorrow, they have better ones with remote lock and stuff for $190 Installed but I don't have power lock acurators.

Is $99 a good call for a bare minimum unit? I mean they do give warranty but is it even $10 on the piece? I don't mind paying for what it's worth but I don't have so much stuff in my car for the extra things to function and don't want an alarm that won't work when some idiot jack my ghetto car. Mostly I want to scare away potential theives. Anyone who knows about cars won't even bother with my car.

Right now I have it parked at a secure warehouse.
Modified by Soravia at 9:26 PM 5/3/2007

[qsiguy]

There are some pretty simple "self contained" alarms you can get for about the same non installed cost. Some even only require a simple 2 wire install. Power and ground and have a current sensor and shock sensor built in. The shock, or impact, sensor will of course sense any forced entry. They don't detect "motion" as it rocking the vehicle side to side but rather an impact to the vehicle like when someone smashes a window. The current sensor can detect when someone opens the door as long as your interior lighting works when the door opens. Some of these types of alarms have additional inputs/outputs so you can expand on them so they are a good buy particularly if you don't have electric door locks.

$99 is a decent price, I'd be curious to know what alarm that is but as long as it does the basics reliably and has a couple extras you can add in the future you should be happy.

[Soravia]

I got Freedom-400 model from Omega R&D. It has Shock sensor right now. The manual says it has parking lights, LED, Instant Trigger for hatch/hood detection and optional ignition kill upgrade. LED, Parking lights and trigger were not installed on this $99, I think they were for $150. but the other $190 comes with Door unlock too.I also got some stickers. I'm gonna put them on the glass panel behind the window.Now i can finally sleep peacefully.

I'll make my own ignition kill switch later, probably multi-stage.

[qsiguy]

Those are definitely classified in the cheaper alarm class but I sold hundreds of them over the years and they are very good and reliable!

My personal opinion is that I would not install the stickers. It just tells the theif what kind of alarm you have so he can arm himself with the knowledge of how to beat that particular alarm. I suggest installing the LED and making it very visible to the potential thief.

[Soravia]

Thanks!

[NCturbo75]

I have good success with Crimestopper alarms. They seem to work very well for the money. IMO, there is no need to pay $200-up for an "advanced" alarm unless you have an expensive vehicle.

[EW]

I have good success with Crimestopper alarms. They seem to work very well for the money. IMO, there is no need to pay $200-up for an "advanced" alarm unless you have an expensive vehicle.

Whatever. The good alarms start at $400. There are many different sensors, kills, and capabilities to choose from. How much does a break in cost you? Window broken? Wheels and tires stolen? Car stolen? Steering column broken? etc, etc. I am glad that many people don't have alarms. It makes my vehicles less likely to be broken into.

[NCturbo75]

Whatever. The good alarms start at $400. There are many different sensors, kills, and capabilities to choose from. How much does a break in cost you? Window broken? Wheels and tires stolen? Car stolen? Steering column broken? etc, etc. I am glad that many people don't have alarms. It makes my vehicles less likely to be broken into.

Hate to burst your bubble, but if someone wants your car, a car alarm (no matter how high-tech or expensive it is) will not stop them from taking it. That's been proven time and time again.

[EW]

Hate to burst your bubble, but if someone wants your car, a car alarm (no matter how high-tech or expensive it is) will not stop them from taking it. That's been proven time and time again.

I'll disagree. I've sold security systems for 20 years and if that was true, I'd have plenty of pissed off customers. In fact, poke around on any boards you want. Read all the "my junk got stolen" threads and you'll see that virtually NOBODY had a security system of any kind. Are alarms a cure-all? No, but they are an excellent deterrent and they do work. I could give you the keys to my car and you couldn't drive it off! There are huge differences between junk alarms and real security systems as well as good and bad installs. There are so many options and small things you can do to make a security system more difficult to defeat if only sales people cared enough to sell it to you or customers cared enough to do a little research. The fact is that people will spend many thousands of dollars on their car, parts for the car, audio, etc and want to spend $99 or zero on a product that can prevent/deter theft of the vehicle or contents. I sell $1000+ alarms on a regular basis by educating people as to what products are available to them and helping them get exactly what they want. Then, I spend 15-20 minutes showing them EVERYTHING about the system and making them show me all the functions so I know they understand how EVERYTHING works. It is VERY rare that my customer's cars are broken into and I am not aware of a single one being stolen. Not only that, the Clifford anti-carjack function called BlackJax has prevented at least two vehicles from being driven off and a digital tilt sensor on a Tahoe prevented 24" wheels from being removed just last week.

[NCturbo75]

I'm pretty impressed with your story. Here's a quick one for you. Back when I was still a teenager in California, I knew a guy who was the president of a popular lowrider car club. He had a fully customized Mazda B2600 truck with Daytons, Rockford Fosgate system, etc, etc....all protected by the highest model CODEALARM made. The guy even had a removable steering wheel in which he took with him everywhere. While he was working in K-mart (as the sporting goods manager), a group of thieves showed up with their own steering wheel and a tow truck and hauled his precious ride away. His truck was found 2 weeks later 50 miles north of town...naked to the bare metal. Like I stated before, there is nothing that will stop someone from taking your car especially if they want your ride more than you do.

[Soravia]

Well, I don't plan to pimp my car on the OUTSIDE at all beyond dent removal and new paint. But I'm also making sure that average loser thieves are deterred. So I'll be adding in an LED, probably tomorrow if budget permits.

Loser thieves know only wheels, which is why I purposely picked old stock Nissan wheels. To me tires are more important.

if and when I get to the point of having a really nice car out of this. (again, on the inside) I'll probably add in multiple cut-off and a 2-way alarm, a cheap GPS. (about $500 and comes with pay-as-you-go service)I think steering wheels are over-rated and unreliable. I'd spend my money on a gun instand, police won't arrest me for shooting and killing people stealing my car.
Modified by Soravia at 9:08 AM 5/11/2007

[EW]

Your story is also very good. However, since the code alarm units only have one normally closed kill and cutting one wire defeats the entire alarm, I can see how it could be easily defeated plus, modern systems can have a paging remote that works up to a mile away AND you can add a GPS tracker which will call, email, page you if the car is moved or the alarm is triggered so the vehicle owner will know what is going on with his junk. There are many layers of security possible and while nothing is foolproof, I'll still try to protect my junk with a security system, wheel locks, and good insurance.

[qsiguy]

The Code Alarm he's referring to are the older models before Audiovox purchased Code Alarm and they all used a normally open starter disable circuit. At the time that was rare and they were among the most effective because you could not just cut one wire to disable the alarm. The current line since Audiovox took over are like most other alarms and are normally closed. You can argue this if you like but you would be wrong. I have been a Code Alarm dealer for nearly 20 years.

Obviously you get what you pay for but that doesn't mean you can't have an effective system for a low cost. It is simple to disable nearly any vehicle for a few bucks to the point that I would put it up against your $1000 system. Most of the bells and whistles you get once you spend over a few hundred dollars are just that, bells and whistles and are mostly convenience features. There are great immobilisers and I sell many of them but that doesn't mean you can't do some creative things on a budget. There is no sensor or alarm feature available that will stop a thief from smashing your window (except for bullet proof glass maybe).

I have installed hundreds of alarms, kill switches, tracking systems, and immobilisers, everywhere from $50 to over $1000 and there have been break in attempts but I can't think of any that were equipped with even a simple starter disable that were lost. If you have an alarm with a highly visible LED so the potential theif knows you have something, they don't know if it's a $1000 system or a $99 one so they go on to the next vehicle that has nothing.

As installers we are fortunate if our customers vehicles don't get targeted by the professional theives that will get it no matter what, and if any of your customers ever get targeted by a crew like that it won't matter what you installed at what price in that car, it WILL be gone.

[EW]

One thing I like about the Clifford G5 line of product is that they are a complete security line. All but one system has starter and ignition kill. Most alarms just have a normally closed starter kill. All Clifford G5 models have a coded valet switch so a thief can not pop the column, turn on the ignition, press the valet switch, and drive off like you can on 99% of the alarms on the market. Clifford also offers a wireless kill. We normally use them for fuel since the alarm already has a starter and ignition kill. There is no connection from the kill to the alarm. It uses a radio signal to allow the fuel pump to turn on. Disconnect the power from the alarm and you will get no fuel and there aren't any wires to trace down to find the kill. Clifford's BlackJax system is the best anti-carjack system on the market IMO. It works automatically and will literally shut the car down after the carjacker has driven away. Additional sensors offer more protection. Virtually all alarms offer an impact sensor. An impact does not cover glass breakage, a glass sensor does not cover the interior like a prox, none of the above detects jacking or towing. Different sensors detect different events.Back up battery sirens continue to sound even if the siren wires are cut which is the first thing many thieves do after they get in the car. If an alarm, like a paging remote start system from DEI, starts at $699 installed, it is not that hard to add sensors, not bells and whistles to get to $1000. Still, if your car is stolen or broken in to, what are you going to lose even with full coverage? Value of audio, accessories, deductible, etc. No protection or trying to protect a car with a $99 alarm just does not make sense to me. YMMV.

[Soravia]

Insurance people are just rip-off. When you are in a bind they try to wiggle out of the situation. I've never trusted them.

[qsiguy]

EW, I am fully aware of how awesome the Clifford G5 line is and of all the sensors available having been around the block about a million times and been in the business since the "old-school" times. I was doing alarms way back when we were installing alarms that had key switches in the fender! The high tech equipment that is available today is top notch and if you have the budget for it, worth every penny IMO.

The point I was trying to make is that you do not HAVE to spend the high dollars on something like the Clifford as there are numberous ways to accomplish many of the same things without spending a fortune on their well marketed products. The way they have the ideas for these products is from years of installers performing many of the same things on a one by one custom basis. You may not get the same fancy interface but it's completely possible to get equally effective protection for a fraction of the cost.

I want to sell just as many high end high dollar systems as the next dealer but the difference with me at my shop is that I offer many options. If they want a nice production made system with all the benefits that come with it, that's what they get. If they prefer that we create a custom one-off system for them, that's what they get. The custom disabling systems we make are purpose built, custom, and one of a kind.

Your paging remote start system from DEI that starts at $699 is full of bells and whistles. Remote start does nothing to prevent theft, nor does keyless entry, trunk pop, multiple auxilliary outputs, etc. Nice they definitely are, and I love each and every one of them but they don't keep your car safe. I always recommend the backup battery sirens and believe in them 100% but like any alarm if nobody hears it or pays attention to it, not even that will PREVENT someone from taking the car. Have you ever seen a car driving around with the alarm going off? I have many times. Does anyone call the police? Doubtfull.

I certainly hope you don't take me the wrong way. I make a living on these "bells and whistles" but I don't like narrow minded people thinking that there's only one way and that way is to throw money at it. Be creative and you can do some of your own really cool extremely effective things. A combination of some of the production made systems along with some of our own custom ideas are the most effective system you can build. No matter how high tech nearly all of these production systems are they are still production and people ALWAYS figure out how to get around them. Custom systems are never the same and never have one simple way around them.

[EW]

I don't have a problem with anything you're saying. At least you are advocating some type of security rather than the give-up of "if they want it, they're going to get it" to which I do not subscribe. There are good security choices on the market and most customers are not exposed to the possibilities so they think that alarms serve no purpose, that they're all the same, or that your car has the same probablity to be broken into or stolen with or without an alarm. I will continue to use an elaborate system in an effort to protect that which I have paid for and I will enjoy the remote start capability while I'm at it.

[Soravia]

I prefer starting my car when I get inside though. Having it start while the gear is in 1st is not a good thing. :P

Is there any wireless remote that can control a simple switch? I want a seperate remote to make fuel pump kill switch. (Simple and cheap is the key.)

[qsiguy]

Remote start is possible on manual trans cars. Most of the new remote start systems have safeguards to prevent in gear starting. That said, I normally refuse to install RS's on manual cars. It's just not worth the risk for me as a shop.

Any remote alarm or keyless will do that. You can use the starter disable circuit for whatever you want. Make sure you know what's been done and how to reverse it in the event something goes wrong with it. There are some really cool ways to do a kill switch using OEM switches to disarm in ways that are pretty much impossible to figure out without completely tearing the car apart.

I don't usually get into to much detail on public threads about a specific install so everyone who reads this will know how to beat your system but here is a partial list and basic description of some of your options.

Remote is nice but I wouldn't worry much about it. Maybe do a simple starter disable with your alarm and in the event a thief does break in he'll mess with that for a while. Wire up a completely separate kill switch as a stand alone system. I've used just about every OEM button or switch at some point as a disarm switch while maintaining the OEM buttons OEM function. You can use power window buttons, cig. lighter, cruise control buttons, parking light switch, head light switch, remote steering wheel or dash mounted radio controls, and more. If wired correctly all of these buttons will maintain their original function while also allowing you to disarm a kill switch. You can obviously wire up any number of add-on aftermarket switches as well if you prefer, like push buttons, toggles, magnetic switches, and I even built a touch switch a few times that is connected to a screw somewhere that when you touch it and your other hand is touching ground (usually the ignition key works) you will disarm the system.

If you want to discuss specific details for your car I suggest we do it off thread to maintain your cars security. I can provide you with a diagram and the necessary parts which there are only a few that are needed. E-Mail me if you want more detail. If you can dream it up I can help you make it work (maybe with a little tweaking)

Shane

[EW]

You need to make sure that if you are using a remote unit to operate relays that they are not energized constantly or your battery will be dead quickly.

Yes, remote start is safe for manual transmission cars when using proper equipment.<--Owns, uses, and sells manual trans remote start.