disgrace to america inside

[numbnuts240]

But Barfoot says he has always flown the flag from a height: "Where I've been, fighting wars ... military installations, parades, everything else, the flag is vertical. And I've done it that way since I was in the Army," Barfoot told the paper.

in parades, the flag is not held vertical. that's damned near impossible. the thing is that every other flag should not be held at an angle equal to, or greater than the american flag.

[Vandrel]

Don't be ashamed if you fall into this category

Quote »The Homeowners Assoc. – Sorry, colonel, but rules are rules, and in a democracy the majority rules. 2% (626 votes) [/quote]Look at the bright side... out of nearly 30,000 people there are over 600 just like you!

[audtatious]

Well, I can see things both ways. Seems he requested putting up the pole but was denied and may have gone ahead and done it? IMO, the HOA should simply give him a waiver for the pole as he is 90 and a "war hero".

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

OMG someone who's not fervently patriotic.WE MUST BURN IT.

[hannibal]

Well, I can see things both ways. Seems he requested putting up the pole but was denied and may have gone ahead and done it? IMO, the HOA should simply give him a waiver for the pole as he is 90 and a "war hero".

Yeah, the HOA should just let the guy put his flag on a pole. But if they let him, his neighbor can argue he wants to fly his VA Tech flag on a pole.

Like numbnuts quoted, the HOA has a problem with the pole, not the flag. The old guy has no legal ground to stand on, but it seems like they could make some allowances for a guy in his situation.

[Ace2cool]

in parades, the flag is not held vertical. that's damned near impossible. the thing is that every other flag should not be held at an angle equal to, or greater than the american flag.

What slackjawed parades have you been attending? Were the honor guard actual military members? If they were, then they coudn't have possibly read their regulations before marching in said parade.

I was a member of the Naval Air Technical Training Center Performing Unit, the command's own Honor Guard, and in my time, I held every position that you can hold: rifleman, ensign bearer (US Flag), vocalist, Navy flag, State flag, and even the Nigerian flag. Any national ensign should be displayed vertically in ANY marching unit, and any subsequent flags should be dipped lower than the national ensigns while presenting the colors. ALL FLAGS will be held vertically while in motion, unless other circumstances prevent this (i.e. low overhead trees or low ceilings) in which case the flags will be dipped no lower than need be to avoid contact with the object.

Ensign regulations: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#bob

If anyone actually takes the time to read that, How many people in the homeowner's association of that neighborhood do you think actually take their flags down at night and properly fold them or have them "adequately lit"? Those who fail to comply are violating the national regulation, which, I believe goes a little higher than the HOA.

I know this is completely missing the point of the HOA wanting uniformity in the neighborhood and enforcing regulations, but where should the regulations stop being enforced?

I personally hold the national standards to a higher note than a group of people who just happen to live in the same area and can change their "rules and regulations" at the drop of a hat.

It literally takes an act of Congress to change the regulations on when/where a flag should be flown and in what manner, whereas the homeowner's association of a neighborhood can call a meeting and change a regulation at any moment to, say, "everyone on this street must have green shutters by next Tuesday or face legal action". There were no written rules against the erectlon of the flagpole at the time that it was placed. Therefore, is COL Barfoot supposed to just swallow the cost of a 21 foot flag pole? I just checked the pricing, and the going rate is anywhere from $115 to $275 for a 20 foot pole, not including the concrete for the foundation.

Personally, I believe that this goes a little beyond what the Colonel signed up for when he joined the HOA. I personally believe it's just someone in a position of power flexing their muscles. Trust me, I see it all the time in the military. Civilians see it too. Ever had a cop pull you over for a loud exhaust or a "rolling stop" that wasn't even a rolling stop at all and be a complete douche to you? Same concept as what we're seeing here.

/rant

[Vandrel]

It appears that the media attention and voice of the people has done some good thus far

Quote »The HOA has extended the deadline to remove the flagpole by one week. The original deadline was set for 12/3/09 at 5:00 p.m.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/...09353/[/quote]And this is the best part of it all,

Quote »Barfoot, a veteran of three wars who says he has flown the American flag for most of his life, was ordered earlier this week to remove the pole because the association had rejected his request to erect it and he constructed it anyhow.

The staff of U.S. Senator Mark Warner, D-Va., has intervened to help negotiate a settlement in the dispute.[/quote]

[numbnuts240]

What slackjawed parades have you been attending? Were the honor guard actual military members? If they were, then they coudn't have possibly read their regulations before marching in said parade.

I was a member of the Naval Air Technical Training Center Performing Unit, the command's own Honor Guard, and in my time, I held every position that you can hold: rifleman, ensign bearer (US Flag), vocalist, Navy flag, State flag, and even the Nigerian flag. Any national ensign should be displayed vertically in ANY marching unit, and any subsequent flags should be dipped lower than the national ensigns while presenting the colors. ALL FLAGS will be held vertically while in motion, unless other circumstances prevent this (i.e. low overhead trees or low ceilings) in which case the flags will be dipped no lower than need be to avoid contact with the object.

it's been many years since i've been involved with a parade and i stand corrected. thank you for providing the correct info. it's good to know this stuff. i'm the guy that asks for the store manager to demand that the improperly displayed flag be corrected so that the field of stars be in the upper left corner. hell, i approached a group of uniformed servicemen at the bar to inquire as to why the flag on their sleeves had the field in the upper right.

Quote »Barfoot, a veteran of three wars who says he has flown the American flag for most of his life, was ordered earlier this week to remove the pole because the association had rejected his request to erect it and he constructed it anyhow.

The staff of U.S. Senator Mark Warner, D-Va., has intervened to help negotiate a settlement in the dispute.[/quote]so he sought permission to erect flag pole, was denied said permission, and yet had the pole put up anyhow?

[Vandrel]

so he sought permission to erect flag pole, was denied said permission, and yet had the pole put up anyhow?

Don't worry, out of 60,000+ people there's 2% that agree with you.

[numbnuts240]

Don't worry, out of 60,000+ people there's 2% that agree with you.

he's a highly decorated veteran who has fought for our country in 3 different wars. god bless him and i thank him for his service. i feel the same way towards any serviceman, whether they have fought overseas or not.

do you think you or the 98% of those >60k would be so adamant about supporting this guy if he were kevin johnson, the architect from boulder, co? or how about jose sanchez from el paso, tx? i doubt it. everyone is all up in arms over this because he's a veteran. as i said, i respect that, but do i believe that veterans should be allowed to dismiss any and all rules and substitute their own as they deem fit? no. that's like the police pulling you over and ticketing you for a loud exhaust, and then driving off on their cell phone while flipping on their lights to get through a red light. it's hypocrisy.

[Vandrel]

I called my local radio station and they are talking about it now

You can listen to it live right now, http://carolinaspurerock.com/L...88009

[TroubleBound]

I live like 20 mins from this guy

I should go erect a 22 foot flagpole right in front of the HOA president's door in the middle of the night, and photograph it.

There is a house down the street from me with HUGE flagpoles. One is American, one is British, and one is the yellow "Don't tread on me" with the snake. No one cares. And they definitely doesn't ho through all of the work to put it up every morning and take it down every night.

Barefoot should have moved into my neighborhood, we would have been glad to have him and his flag.
Modified by TroubleBound at 12:14 PM 12/4/2009

[Dattebayo]

This song goes out to you, Vandrel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBgmC_USeoM

[Vandrel]

This song goes out to you, Vandrel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBgmC_USeoM

Slowly as I read your posts I start to think that your name is Michael Crookhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...erans

[Dattebayo]

Honestly, you're ridiculous.

You should be more concerned with the idea a flag represents rather then the item itself. Or a stupid flagpole...

Do you remember flag burning? Yeah, this issue is at the same root as that old stuff. Get over it, OK? You could probably use less wrinkles for when you get old enough to install your own flagpole and annoy an HOA with it.

[Vandrel]

Honestly, you're ridiculous.

You should be more concerned with the idea a flag represents rather then the item itself. Or a stupid flagpole...

Do you remember flag burning? Yeah, this issue is at the same root as that old stuff. Get over it, OK? You could probably use less wrinkles for when you get old enough to install your own flagpole and annoy an HOA with it.

Sure thing Michael Crook

[Beancooker]

Vandrel, if keep up the rampant posting about Patriotism, you need to do it in the Politics forum. It doesn't belong in General Chat.

[Vandrel]

Vandrel, if keep up the rampant posting about Patriotism, you need to do it in the Politics forum. It doesn't belong in General Chat.

I'm not rampantly posting, it's called directly replying to responses in my thread

While this is a legal case vise some election or presidential political matter I don't really see how it would fit in here but I don't care either way.

Since the Michael Crook thread is directly related to this one due to Crook's response to the legal case of Barfoot I guess that might as well be moved to this section too?

[Vandrel]

Latest info regarding the American Legion support, http://www.foxbusiness.com/sto...gpole/

[USsil80]

you know all that man did for all those people who don't like his pole.... i wonder how they can look at themselves in the mirror...

[smockers83]

What slackjawed parades have you been attending?

What else would you expect from someone with a title containing Learned'd?

Someone mentioned or an article mentioned that the pole stands on his property. The pole does not stand on his property. The grounds are community grounds, governed by the board.

Personally, I think the board, instead of making a big deal about it, should redesign it's rules to the effect of aud's HOA rules.

Also, IIRC, the flag code says the flag cannot be displayed in such a way that they do at many football games, with people spreading the flag across the field. The code says it may not be carried flat or horizontally. I see this happen all the time during pregame shows (and a few half time shows) and it makes me cringe. At least, to my understanding, I should be cringing.

[Vandrel]

White House says "it's silly"

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...-flag/

[Vandrel]

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Rep. Howard P. "Buck" McKeon (R-CA) and Republican Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) introduced a resolution, H. Res. 952, allowing Congressional Medal of Honor recipients to properly display the United States flag on their property at all times.

http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=11643759

[USsil80]

The HOA has dropped the lawsuit

[themadscientist]

Continue to pressure them. This should not end because they disengage. Publicly humiliate them. F-in p****** should thank that man for risking his life so they can waste theirs being poopyhead.

[USsil80]

Continue to pressure them. This should not end because they disengage. Publicly humiliate them. F-in p****** should thank that man for risking his life so they can waste theirs being poopyhead.

i agree