Discussion on Wikileaks released cables and related events

[RCA]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK3hq3aPl8k[/youtube]


Do our freedoms truly exist, or do they exist as long as it is continent for our government?

[Jesda]

Lots of hacks and DoS attacks from anon this morning in retaliation for Wikileaks getting their donation accounts frozen/locked/banned by Paypal and MC.

[RCA]

Yeah, Anon sees the Wikileaks ordeal as an attack on Net Neutrality, so you can expect a LOT more where that came from...

[OriginalWheelman]

"The future of the internet hangs in the balance." Give me a break. This guy isn't a revolutionary, he's a profiteer. He has only ever targeted the American government, and it seems most of his content was all the work of 1 spy. With that guy in handcuffs, he has no future anyways. I was undecided on the Iraq war leaks, as while I do think people have the right to know, a lot of things the military does, when taken out of context, seem really bad, but when put into context make perfect sense. Releasing the last batch of stuff seems to have no real purpose other than to destroy US diplomatic ties, by exposing what ambassadors say about the governments they interact with. A lot of us would say things in confidence that we would not say on camera, and that is what these cables were. Things said in confidence to paint a real picture of what is going on for those who need to know it. Posting these will damage the relationships these ambassadors have, and ultimately will serve no real purpose other than to damage our foreign relations. Until the last releases, I would not have considered wikileaks a problem. Now I'm beginning to think this guy is just an ***hole with a vendetta against the US. As for all these people who are making him a martyr, I don't think they have any idea how the world actually works. Kids like to think they can say what they want when they want and people should deal with it, but that is not how a country has to deal with another country. people also like to act like the government is this big insurmountable force. They seem to forget that we elect the government, and we put it in place. We are responsible for what they do. We have the power to remove them if we don't like what they do.

[Encryptshun]

Since people love to say our government would run better if it was run like a corporation, let's think about what a corporation would do: it would run to the government for help.

[hachiroku781]

[RCA]

"The future of the internet hangs in the balance." Give me a break.

What 4Chan meant by "The future of the internet hangs in the balance" is based solely on the censorship of the wikileaks website. There DNS "title" was removed by EveryDNS.net, PayPal froze funds to the Wikileaks account, certain credit card companies stopped payments of donations and a Swedish bank has froze Assange's account with over $40,000 in it because maybe there some outside pressure? What ever the case, YES the internet does hang in the balance; it seems as if the world wants to shut wikileaks up. The head of the FCC is in favor of internet use by the megabyte and has a weak policy on wireless networks so any outside control of the internet will bring the web as we know it to a halt.

This guy isn't a revolutionary, he's a profiteer. He has only ever targeted the American government...

Until the last releases, I would not have considered wikileaks a problem. Now I'm beginning to think this guy is just an ***hole with a vendetta against the US...

He is a man that has been giving a title by the media; Wikileaks is an organization. The next major leak will involve Banking institutions. I do agree though that so far the major leaks have been US specific, but at the same time you need to look at the movements of Wikileaks...
Everything is so calculated; they have a team of lawyers making sure that every step is precise. I am sure if they have incriminating information about other countries it will be released. I think it is more of a safety concern more than anything else; China would have Assange assassinated meanwhile the US would be much more diplomatic.

As for all these people who are making him a martyr, I don't think they have any idea how the world actually works. Kids like to think they can say what they want when they want and people should deal with it, but that is not how a country has to deal with another country.

Why people are treating him like a "martyr" is because the man was arrested and has done nothing wrong.
The "rape" charges were dropped, then suddenly brought back to light after the cables were released.
Authorities reported that they wanted to question Assange. Assange made himself available to be questioned over the phone/skype but the authorizes declined.
Essentially he is being detained because people don't like that his organization is exposing them.
The New York Times released the same cables as Wikileaks and there isn't any hoopla about it, the US government doesn't want to detain NY Times...

The corruption is why people are treating him like a martyr.

people also like to act like the government is this big insurmountable force. They seem to forget that we elect the government, and we put it in place. We are responsible for what they do. We have the power to remove them if we don't like what they do.

And it's gone.

It doesn't matter who we elect, the human element will always be involved. Look at the fillabuster the Reps. put in place for extending Bush Tax cuts for the top 2% of people with the highest income. These people took our country hostage to get what they want and to help out there friends. We don't have control of s***; it doesn't matter whether it's a Dem. or Rep. president, we are led to believe "We the people" are truly in control...

But talk to the 92% of people who didn't get a tax break. If each citizen could vote on the Senate floor, you would see that it wouldn't go through. It's not "One man. one vote", it's "One dollar, one vote". The US government is broken.

[OriginalWheelman]

This is exactly my point. We do not know the nature of the charges against him, but his supporters love to ASSUME it is because of the leaks. That is probably why he is not being released but to say he is only being held because of wikileaks is speculation at best. As you said THE WORLD wants to shut him up. So the world has a problem with wikileaks, and they are doing something about it. Calls of "outside pressure" with no proof, as with everything else people say in his defense, amounts to nothing but a conspiracy theory without proof to back it up. And then you go to the age old cry of the conspiracy theorist, "we can't change the system it is too corrupt!" You then go on to admit that it is the human element that makes it flawed, and then proceed to say the system itself is messed up. Which is it? As for the filibuster, those people are there fighting for what the people who elected them want, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong or them evil.

[Jesda]

He was arrested for a rape accusation. The rape accusation is based on him not using a condom with a girl who consented to having sex with him. The rape accusation came up right after the release of diplomatic cables.


A PRETTY MAGICAL COINCIDENCE.

[Encryptshun]

He was arrested for a rape accusation. The rape accusation is based on him not using a condom with a girl who consented to having sex with him. The rape accusation came up right after the release of diplomatic cables.


A PRETTY MAGICAL COINCIDENCE.

Normally, I scoff at conspiracy theories. In this case, however, I agree with Jesda.

The only thing still in question is whether the rape case was being pursued so seriously because of the visibility of the person, or if the whole thing is a lynching.

[OriginalWheelman]

Who is to say the skank wasn't trying to get famous by implicating the now famous guy? Maybe she is pushing this "rich" guy to try and get money from him. There are tons of reasons why this could be going on. Jumping to the conclusion that the government is behind it, while logical, does not mean it is right. You have already convicted the government based on circumstantial evidence. While I agree it is suggestive of a conspiracy, there are plenty of other possible reasons.

[Encryptshun]

That is certainly possible. If you will note, I did not say it was the government behind it. I suggested that he was being targeted either by the girl or by the government as a direct result of his new visibility. In my mind the conspiracy is not "government vs x", but instead is "x vs Assange".

[OriginalWheelman]

I was referring more to RCAs rather bold statement of "the man was arrested and has done nothing wrong." and "The corruption is why people are treating him like a martyr." He si assuming that he is being arrested for political reasons, and then martyrs him based on the assumption. Like all conspiracy theories, this is assumption built on assumption built on assumption and rumor. None of us know the particulars of the case. Yes we know what charges are being levied and why, but we do know the how why and where of it all that makes a court case.

[RCA]

I was referring more to RCAs rather bold statement of "the man was arrested and has done nothing wrong." and "The corruption is why people are treating him like a martyr." He si assuming that he is being arrested for political reasons, and then martyrs him based on the assumption. Like all conspiracy theories, this is assumption built on assumption built on assumption and rumor. None of us know the particulars of the case. Yes we know what charges are being levied and why, but we do know the how why and where of it all that makes a court case.

What I mean is this...

What he is doing with Wikileaks isn't illegal. Wikileaks is journalism and Assange isn't stealing the information, he is releasing it. That is not illegal.
The rape case was reviewed by the Swedish government and was tossed because it was an illegitimate case. The cables are released and all of a sudden Interpol puts out a "Most Wanted" status on his head because of the "rape" case...

When was the last time you heard of a continent putting some one on a most wanted list because they want to question said person about a rape charge?


It does not add up. That is what I meant by he hasn't done anything wrong.

[FutureDRFTer]

I really don't see what he was trying to do by releasing sensitive war documents. He's getting what he had coming all along.

He can die for all I care. He risked the boots on the ground over in the middle east, no sympathy for him.

[zacmil]

We don't have control of s***; it doesn't matter whether it's a Dem. or Rep. president, we are led to believe "We the people" are truly in control...

It's not "One man. one vote", it's "One dollar, one vote". The US government is broken.

That, sadly, is the truth.

From what I have seen, Wikileaks hasn't really released anything that would put American lives at risk (if I am mistaken, please correct me). Until Wikileaks releases something that is a risk to America and/or its troops abroad, I say more power to them.

[OriginalWheelman]

I'm so f*** sick of armchair politicians who have all the answers and know everyhting that's wrong with the government but do nothing but b**** about it. They complain the two big parties are super corrupt, and keep voting them in. You're so sick of the government, f*** go run for office and fix it. Until then, all your doing is bitching.

[Jesda]

You're so sick of the government, f**king go run for office and fix it.

I did. I obviously did not win.


The next big release from Wikileaks is supposed to be about major banks, and I'm all in favor of bringing that crap to the surface since they had the audacity to take our money after running their organizations into the ground.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Personally I think that this is a good thing. There are just some things that shouldn't be put out for the whole public to see, military operations being one of them. I don't know about you guys but I really don't want anyone and everyone know about what our military has, is, and will be doing. After actions reports are a key factor into MI's operations and if our Intelligence services can gain intel on them, then so can our enemies. Plus these people are not just focusing on the US, they are also focusing on our allies (England). There is a reason why there are time restrictions on when stuff is released to the public, and these people are just totally circumventing that.

Everyone keeps crying about conspiracy this, Illuminati that, our government is hiding relevant information from us. I think that if the general populace knew 1/4 of the stuff the government isn't telling them there would be mass hysteria.

[Jesda]

Paypal gave in They're not allowing Wikileaks the use of their payment system but are at least releasing the funds.

In a reversal of course, PayPal has released funds remaining in an account associated with WikiLeaks according to a post on PayPal’s blog.

Last week, a statement from PayPal indicated, the company had suspended the account following claims by the U.S. that the activities of WikiLeaks violated the law. According to the report, PayPal acted of their own volition, without being contacted by any government agency.

Further, the spokesman for PayPal indicated that the company had “permanently restricted the account used by WikiLeaks due to a violation of the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, which states that our payment service cannot be used for any activities that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity.”

Now it appears attacks from the supporters of WikiLeaks have caused PayPal to re-think their position.

From the PayPal blog post:

“While the account will remain restricted, PayPal will release all remaining funds in the account to the foundation that was raising funds for WikiLeaks.”
“We understand that PayPal’s decision has become part of a broader story involving political, legal and free speech debates surrounding WikiLeaks’ activities. None of these concerns factored into our decision. Our only consideration was whether or not the account associated with WikiLeaks violated our Acceptable Use Policy and regulations required of us as a global payment company. Our actions in this matter are consistent with any account found to be in violation of our policies”
Release of the funds come after a slew of denial-of-service (DOS) attacks earlier this week aimed at WikiLeaks’ providers. The providers have refused to conduct any business with WikiLeaks after the U.S. government stepped up its pressure on the site, claiming the site’s actions are in violation of U.S. law.

[LocAL_anarchy]

From what I have seen, Wikileaks hasn't really released anything that would put American lives at risk (if I am mistaken, please correct me). Until Wikileaks releases something that is a risk to America and/or its troops abroad, I say more power to them.

Exactly. The media has inadvertently released more risky information the last 20 years pertaining to troop activity, tactics, weapons, etc., just from normal coverage and news articles.

The next big release from Wikileaks is supposed to be about major banks, and I'm all in favor of bringing that crap to the surface since they had the audacity to take our money after running their organizations into the ground.

Now this is what I'm talking about. This is where a site like Wikileaks can actually do some good. But guess what will happen? Nothing. Nothing at all. People will read it, be outraged, blog about what needs to be done. But that's it. They'll just go back to watching reality TV and playing Farmville.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

From what I have seen, Wikileaks hasn't really released anything that would put American lives at risk (if I am mistaken, please correct me). Until Wikileaks releases something that is a risk to America and/or its troops abroad, I say more power to them.

Wikileaks was unable to redact 100% of what they released, so I'm sure there's a document in there that directly puts boots at risk.

Large scope the release of any classified information puts the U.S. at risk... that's the nature of being classified.

[OriginalWheelman]

I did. I obviously did not win.

I know you did, and I respect you a hell of a lot for trying.

[FutureDRFTer]

Bad/little intel>no intel (for the enemy)


The world isn't a utopia like us Americans tend to believe. Dirty s*** happens, the US population is too pussified (If it isn't already, this should be a word.) to understand what is being done there.

Middle East
-Women getting stoned to death(the bad kind.)
-Beheadings on the reg.
-Sharia Law (Look it up.)
-Suicide bombings.

Even for Mexico, they have a full out war basically against the cartels and people are upset the Gov. doesn't want ILLEGALS in our country? Get real people. s*** is getting rough and Obama is too concerned with the latino vote to lock up the border/do something about the situation. I still don't understand how the populous was angry at Arizona, that's s***.

I still laugh at how Obama achieved office. Good speeches and the biggest hype, way to vote America!

/Suck a** opinions that I have.

[Jesda]

He was arrested for a rape accusation. The rape accusation is based on him not using a condom with a girl who consented to having sex with him. The rape accusation came up right after the release of diplomatic cables.


A PRETTY MAGICAL COINCIDENCE.

Normally, I scoff at conspiracy theories. In this case, however, I agree with Jesda.

The only thing still in question is whether the rape case was being pursued so seriously because of the visibility of the person, or if the whole thing is a lynching.

Its not even a conspiracy. Its a common tactic used by law enforcement to detain someone while they gather evidence for something unrelated.

Like on SVU when they drag a perp in for parking tickets.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Kids like to think they can say what they want when they want and people should deal with it, but that is not how a country has to deal with another country.

Exactly. Idiot idealist kids of today fail to understand the purpose of diplomacy.

Large scope the release of any classified information puts the U.S. at risk... that's the nature of being classified.

Another thing idiot idealists fail to understand. The idea that everyone is entitled to know everything is absurd. While the U.S. government may or may not have a legitimate need to keep military secrets from U.S. citizens, it's sort of required that we keep secrets from other national governments.

It doesn't matter who we elect, the human element will always be involved.

And this is exactly why Monarchy is the most "safe" form of government. With modern constitutional and democratic governments, you have the problem of huge numbers of humans contributing their flaws to the system. There are more places for things to go wrong. When everything, at least ultimately, rests on the shoulders of one person, that weakness is filtered. Certainly it has the potential to be very bad, but that counters the potential for great good as well. You can have democratic institutions existing below the monarch, in an informative and advisory faculty, which can expand the pool of expertise of that singular leader without increasing the potential for weakness. Let the people vote, but also let the buck stop with a monarch. Assuming you have a benevolent ruler (which DO and HAVE existed, hard as it may be to believe these days) you have an excellently balanced system with a lot of stability. In a Monarchy, if the people do not like their leader, they are (obviously) free to remove him by force. But they must do so with the knowledge that his replacement is an unknown. Life service for the monarch serves to reinforce loyalty from BOTH sides--from the people and TO the people. Much more effective than terms of a few years.

The keys to a properly functioning government are simple:
1: A leader who genuinely wants to build a better world for his people
2: A leader who is well informed and not bombarded with partisan propaganda
3: A people who trust and respect their leader and his purposes enough to allow him to make choices they may not understand

That's it. Democracy has none of these. In fact, it DISCOURAGES the first two, which undermines the third.

[Jesda]

You play too much Tropico.

[MinisterofDOOM]

You play too much Tropico.

It's HARD to be a genuinely benevolent leader in that game. It tries really hard to steer you toward being a bastard.