Discussion: Ka24de-t turbo choice - personal suggestions

[BTL_nissan]

Hey my names Adam, good friends with one of the 300zx mods (300ZXttZMAN) anyway I'm needing to know what turbo I should get to have a balanced powerband. I tried searching but since everyone has a different mod list I get incosistent results.

So anyway here is my mod list,

Bottom end:
81.5 mm over bore with wiseco 9:1 cr pistons
eagle rods
arp head studs
clevite bearings

Head:
supertech valve train (stock valves)
and gasket matched the exhaust ports

and excessive intake manifold (knock off)

Ill be running a log t3 manifold with 2.5 inch ic piping and intercooler.
walbro 255 fuel pump and 550 cc yellow top side feed 05 subaru sti injectors

anyways talked to a shop and they recomended a precision 5454e turbo. (659 shipped to my house new) and claimed to be in boost around 2600 rpms (which sounds amazing) and 350hp around 15-17 psi. will the ka choke up top with this turbo?

heres the specs on the 5454

MFS (Machined From Solid) 54mm Inducer Compressor Wheel
"E" Compressor Cover with 3.0" Inlet & 2.0" Outlet
54mm Exducer Turbine Wheel
T3 .63 A/R Turbine Housing with 4-Bolt Discharge
360� Journal Bearing System


now my second option is a 5431e which Im still researching.
specs on 5431e

CEA (Competition Engineered Aerodynamics) 54mm inducer compressor wheel
• "E" compressor cover 3.0" inlet/2.0" outlet
• T31, 76 trim turbine wheel
• Turbine housing options:
- T3 .48 or .63 A/R with 4 bolt discharge


I really want a linear power band no on/off switch while in boost, Ive been driving myself nuts trying to teach myself flow charts etc etc

Anyone have any personal experience with either of these turbos?
im shooting for the 5454 for the quick boost responce and will be ordering within the next day or 2.

Thanks for the input!!! I'll get some pics up soon.

[300ZXttZMAN]

AD!

Here are some pictures of the car,









These are just some rough pics, the day I actually bought it. Then I sold it to adam so that I could get him out of the Honda game, which he evolved very quickly hah. We will get some more pics up once the build starts coming together - just have to wait until the parts get here.

Cheers guys.

[Jmoore124]

I don't have any personal experience with either of those turbos. I use a Borg warner s258 in my Ka-t. it's an amazing unit, and perfect for our cars. if I were you I would ask myself very hard what your final hp goal will be. what kind of setup are you running? ecu injectors etc. when I get home I'll send you a link on the 258 explaining why I like them so much.

[Jmoore124]

Take the time to read this thread. This was my brothers post years ago. The turbo is ridiculous. It spools at 2800 and is pumping hard by 3k. Its good up to 600 HP and with the custom t3 exhaust housing is an excellent choice. I have one with the custom milled anti surge housing and the stock v band housing if your interested
post4211675.html?hilit=s258#p4211675

[300ZXttZMAN]

He is looking for a linear powerband. Which is why he is looking to see if anyone has a similar setup and can shed some insight for what he should do with his current setup.

I don't know enough about the KA to tell him which turbo to get.

[Jmoore124]

Not quite sure what you mean by linear powerband, Like he wants to eliminate the jump in horsepower when the turbo comes in?

[300ZXttZMAN]

Linear powerband means that he doesn't want it to spool up and make all of its power at the end of the gear.

In other words, he wants to spool early and be able to make steady power throughout the gear.

[Jmoore124]

I know the guy I had build me the turbo specifically suggested the turbo for the KA. He is extremely knowledgeable and gave me a bunch of cfm rates and numbers I didn't understand to explain why it was a good match. Havent gotten that deep into turbos to be able to explain it without making a donkey out of myself. Good luck with the build.

[JGT Customs]

Have you considered an HX35 with factory 12cm hotside? Brake boosting it's able to spool on a 2.0 by 3000 RPMs in 4th, so it very well may suit your goals. They're good for about 550 to 600 horses and they can be had pretty cheap.

[float_6969]

I think the first question should be what your power goal is? Then we can star talking about choices.

[Jmoore124]

Have you considered an HX35 with factory 12cm hotside? Brake boosting it's able to spool on a 2.0 by 3000 RPMs in 4th, so it very well may suit your goals. They're good for about 550 to 600 horses and they can be had pretty cheap.

I agree with this as well. There are a lot of guys who run the holsets on the KA. Have one of those too I was going to use on another build

[JGT Customs]

If you can find one cheap enough, look for a vendor who can rebuild. If there aren't any, contact me and I have a local company (partner found on my website) who does excellent work. I'm trying to talk him into a vendorship here as well.

[BTL_nissan]

I think the first question should be what your power goal is? Then we can star talking about choices.

My power goals are around the 300-350 mark, 330 would be perfect for me. I know there are tons of good choices, but if I'm going to spend the money I'm going to spend it right the first time. I have a ton invested already so why stop now lol. At the same time though I want some growing room. Although I'm sure a base model 240 with 330hp at the wheels is going to be completely retarded, but everyone says you get addicted to boost.

Aren't these holset turbos found on diesel trucks? I could get my hands on one quite easily if so (thanks to Mark).

[JGT Customs]

You got it. Holsets are found on diesels and the HX35 is going to be your best application. You'll get the 300-350hp with a relatively low boost setting, but since they're good for around 500-550 horses, it leaves you with plenty of growing room. Cheap to find used and cheap to rebuild. Message me for more information if you want and I can point you in the direction of a very knowledgeable facebook group dedicated soley to turbo talk.

[float_6969]

The nice things about Holsets are that they are designed for comparatively low exhaust gas temperatures and flow rates compared to gasoline. This means they are designed from the ground up to spool quickly, and run lots of boost, because diesel engines don't have the ability to run lots of revs to make power like gas engines do. So when used on a gas engine, they tend to spool quickly, and they're capable of lots of boost.

The con is that most of those turbo's aren't BB. So the transient response is the same as any other journal bearing turbo. Transient response is also an issue with non-BB Holsets in general as they were never designed with that in mind. But they are VERY tough as they were designed to run LOTS of boost.

If you're wanting a really responsive turbo, I think you can find a smaller T3/T4 hybrid in a BB that will spool just as quickly, have good transient response and still have some headroom for more power. Another thing I would REALLY push you towards is a twin scrool/divided inlet turbine housing and turbo manifold to match. Most people can't believe the difference it makes until they've driven/owned one. Usually 500rpm faster spool and no loss in top end, or if you over-size the turbine housing, it will spool as fast as a smaller single scroll housing, but you gain top end.

[BTL_nissan]

Another thing I would REALLY push you towards is a twin scrool/divided inlet turbine housing and turbo manifold to match. Most people can't believe the difference it makes until they've driven/owned one. Usually 500rpm faster spool and no loss in top end, or if you over-size the turbine housing, it will spool as fast as a smaller single scroll housing, but you gain top end.

They have manifolds to match the twin scroll turbo? I'll look into that.

You guys have given me some insight on other options but.... No one has commented on the 5454 that I was leaning toward. Just curious if spec wise it would be a good choice.

Oh and ps. Im no longer running the log style manifold. Decided I was going to do some port matching the other day on it and I never realized how SMALL the ports were. Literally half the size of head ports. Guess that's what i get for impulse buying at IFO.

[JGT Customs]

Yea, twin scroll is incredible with what it can do. The Evo 8/9 turbos spool like the old 16g's, but are capable of 20g power. As for the ball bearing part - just remember that they are basically considered unrebuildable. The CAN be rebuilt, but you really pay for it. As far as the spool goes, they spool excellently - and alot of guys see similar spool times on a factory HX35 with the "small" factory hotside as they would with a large 16g style turbo...but they continue to make power throughout the band.

As far as the 5454, I don't have any personal experience for you at this point. Best advice would really be to study compressor maps and see what best suits you unless you can find someone who can actually give you advice on that.

[BTL_nissan]

I'm thinking about running the holset, but being I'm not a diesel f*** I have absolutely no idea how to find one, nor ask a salvage yard what vehicle they came on. Where they used on a certain year/make/model? I have no idea how this works with diesels lol.

[BTL_nissan]

From the google search Im thinking they are found on the 99-02 dodge cummings. Thank God for google

[JGT Customs]

Sorry for the late reply but here's more info for you I guess it helps to have been around them for a while. Some of the info below is DSM specific, but the concepts are universal. Information was borrowed from here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-s ... t-9-a.html

HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 54mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEEM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HY35:

The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 54mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

H1C/WH1C:

In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

HX40:

The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

H1E/WH1E:

The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

Misc.:
Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.

[BTL_nissan]

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 54mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEEM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

This is AWESOME info!!!! I just did a quick search on the divided manifolds and damn it are they out of my price range. I'll just be running a tubular top mount t3 mani.

Now maybe I'm reading this wrong but what is a "bolton BEP housing". From what I've read the bolton housing shaves 500rpms off of spool time. Is bolton dsm talk? lol

[float_6969]

Now maybe I'm reading this wrong but what is a "bolton BEP housing". From what I've read the bolton housing shaves 500rpms off of spool time. Is bolton dsm talk? lol

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-s ... urbos.html

[JGT Customs]

BEP housings are Bulls Eye Performance housings. As for bolton - translate that to "Bolt On", basically meaning that the turbo can mount to a factory TD05 housing. Honestly, there are guys with 2.0 DSM's running the factory t3 hotside and still spooling at 3k in 4th gear by brake boosting. I wouldn't worry about swapping housings as long as the one you have is the 9cm housing (if I remember correctly) or the 12cm twin scroll housing. Check out the link I sent you in PM and talk to the guys there. They stock turbos, rebuild turbos, and his only job in life is turbos lol. Austin and Ian over there are a wealth of knowledge as well as the guys in the FB group.

[Jmoore124]

The holsets are pretty easy to find. I have a holset from a running 04 cummins I would let go cheap, it has a vband exhaust housing though.

[JGT Customs]

They do make Vband adapters for manifolds

[BTL_nissan]

Talked to a few people and did some more digging and research. Anyone ever run an 18g or 20g?

[JGT Customs]

Again, knowledge from the DSM world. Guys running the 2.3 and 2.4 strokers and 16gs experience spool as soon as you touch the gas. 2500 rpms or so they're really starting to hit. The 20g is the smallest I would go to have a good strong power band. They're good for 450 or so depending on tuning and boost levels. On lower boost with a 2.4, your 350 goal shouldn't be a problem without even really stretching the turbos legs.