Discounting off sticker

[tishpit]

I know there is already a thread on how much people are paying... but it's just so easy to jumble numbers when you include trade and "coupons" and such. Like, I really don't care if they give me $400 or $4,000 for my trade because if they show $4k, they may be adding on $2,000 onto the new car price or they may show $400 and are discounting the new one by $3800... etc. So, while I am trying to be a frugal and smart shopper, I'm trying to figure what is "reasonable" for a 2009 S sedan. First, it appears there are less sedans out there than hatches, possibly meaning less demand for the sedans(???) which could translate into more room to play with $$$????

I'm thinking the best thing to try and figure is how much is reasonable for the dealer to discount the MSRP since I've figured it is best to take the 3.9% APR for 60 mos. than the rebate cash. I also printed up a $500 internet coupon, however it states that it must be presented PRIOR to any offer to purchase and cannot be used with any other offer or specials, etc. (does this include the special financing rates too???). I'm figuring a sticker at about $16,100. Is $1000 off sticker plus $500 coupon reasonable if I can still get 3.9% or am I needing a reality infusion??? OR... am I underestimating the discounting going on now with the economy in the toilet and tons of cars sitting on the lots???

[alonsorules8]

When I did my deal with the dealer I found out the invoice price the dealer paid for the car and added 4% to get my target range, also since I went through my dealer internet pricing and got my 08 Nissan Versa SL with CVT trans, Floor Mats, Sports Pkg., Convience Pkg. for $17000. Which was $1100 below MSRP back when the 08's came out last Nov. less of course Taxes Tags Title and processing.

If I were you I would get prices on the exact model and features you want and try 3 to 5 dealers in your area and see who can get you the best deal via the Internet Sales Dept.

[hiimjered]

First: Go to KBB and, under their "new car pricing" section, look up your target car. Select it with options and you will see about what the invoice for your car would be. Print this info out and bring it with you. This helps even more.

Second: Subtract any cash-back or other discounts from this number. The result is the number you begin to bargain up from. You should be able to pay about $500 above this result.

Third: Don't even begin to talk trade in until this number is achieved. The trade in should be discussed seperately and should drop this number even further.

Using the above method I got my Versa paying $700 below invoice (after counting the cash-back incentives.) I ended up selling my trade-in myself (for $3,000 more than they offered.)

Also, if you are a member of any orgizination that offers a car-buying service (wholesale club, travel clubs, etc) get a quote from them. It should help even more.

Anyway, without your trade-in, but with your cupon, you should get out of there for right around invoice price (before tax, title, etc.) Good luck.

[keanucosmo]

I priced mine using Edmunds. Then I went to the Nissan site and found 5 dealers that had a V with the options I wanted. I requested a drive out quote on exact stock numbers via the Nissan site. The drive out quote is important because of dealer specific fees. One dealer was an idiot. 2 others were close on price, but had an outrageous doc fee. One was a scammer telling me he could get me a V "like" the one I asked about for $700 over MSRP. The last one which I had bought my 07 V from sent me a quote of $500 under invoice (there was $500 cash back at the time). I called and put a$500 down payment/deposit on my credit card. Two days later I picked the car up, spending just under an hour at the dealer to sign all the paperwork.

In this day and age unless you absolutely have to trade-in, there is no reason not to have a deal worked out before you ever go to a dealer.

Your comment about the economy may or may not be valid regarding buying a V. The demand for cars with a low energy impact has skyrocketed. So the V may be going for more than invoice currently.

[tishpit]

Since I have a trade (tried to sell outright and BIG hassle and person backed out at end.. too $$ to keep advertising, etc.), I was thinking of approaching it with the payment angle. Such as saying, I want my payment to be around $210/month for 60 mos. with the 3.9% financing currently offered by Nissan (in lieu of rebate cash) and including my trade but paying taxes and plates up front. Because actually, when you think about it, it doesn't really matter what they show for your trade nor how much they discount the V... it's the bottom line. Do you think this is a good way to approach the dealer? I did drive a Yaris to compare and tried this on the dealer (it was near closing time). He said he'd call the next day after working the figures (I said under $200/mo. since the Yaris was stripped and actually, not in the same league as the Versa). Well... he never called me back!!! I guess Toyota dealers feel they don't need to work with you. They seem to have an "attitude." Going to try and maneuver a Versa before month's end... hoping month-end incentives and bonuses will inspire the dealership to work with me. Only bad thing... no one around my area has the exact car I want in stock... it's either choose the equipment I want in a color I don't care for, or vice VERSA!

[frankoV]

You are doing it backwards. DON'T start from the monthly payment angle; start from "this is what I'll pay, this is what my trade in is worth".

For example [terrible example but what can I say?]

$15,000 for the car including dealer prep [$15,000 bottom line period!]

$1500 for taxes [who knows?]

$1,500 down payment

"how does that sound?" he takes it to his manager/whatever and comes back and says "I need more" [not those words]

You say " No, that's what I'm willing to do . . . I have a trade; I'll take $5,000 for it" [he snickers, comes back and offers 72¢]. You say "You know, this is what I'll do. I'll give you $11,000 and my car. You have my phone number -- call me" and start to walk away.

Now . . . is your car worth the difference between what they want and what you want to pay? You may want to pay $11,000 and give your car, but if you have a 1992 Hyundai Pony [if they still made them then] you ain't gonna get it!

Be willing to walk -- if they know you want that car and you aren't willing to say fugedaboudit then they've got you.

Know what you want to pay [not monthly payments; know what your trade is worth, and go from there.

I took the internet route: e-mailed my four closest dealers and took the best offer.

btw, it sounds like $11,000 and your car is your bottom line [=$203/mo @ 3.9%]

[tishpit]

Yep, frankohabs, that is very close to my bottom line. But my trade... well... that's a tough one. Can't even find it in some reference books as it is too old. A 1990 Mazda Miata, runs nice, new top, tires, CD, lots of new mechanical parts and maintenance, and 76,000 original miles. Florida car... NO rust anywhere! It could eventually be a collector's car kinda sorta as it is the first production year of the Miata and it embodies the spirit reminiscent of the old English roadsters. But to a dealer, they are probably thinking $600 at auction. Although... I did have a dealer offer me $4,000 on trade for a used PT Cruiser convertible... but then look at what you'd be taking off their lot LOL! I looked up current for for sale ads for the same year, but most have a lot more miles thanmine and it's consistently coming up in the $4,000 - $5,000 range. I was offered $3800, buy an out-of-state buyer, but they suddenly backed out. The MSRP of THE CAR I located that comes closest to the one I want is about $16,300. The dealership I'm dealing with so far has a $500 coupon I've printed. Another dealer is offering lifetime powertrain warranty with any new purchase, so I'd love to toss that into the deal. So... based on all this... does $11,000 plus trade and including warranty at 3.9%/60 mos. (paying taxes and fees outright) sound like a reasonable way to go at it? There are four Nissan dealers within 50 miles of me and it is one of them that has THE car. Though the dealer closest to me doesn't have it and so far have been one of the more gracious dealers I've visited. The dealership offering the warranty was not a pleasant experience (salesman could use some classes on human relation skills and how to talk to women buyers). My hesitation at dealing online is that they cannot see my trade and to negotiate a "good" price online (let's say $1200 off MSRP including coupon) may mean nothing if I stroll in to get the car and they low-ball the trade, thereby offsetting the discount on the new car (like tell me they'll give me $500 for trade). I love cars... love the test driving and such... HATE the negotiating part. One good thing about cars like Scion... the MSRP is the price. Period.

[frankoV]

may be worth finding someone to do the negotiations for you [up here there are companies that offer that service]

[mxdoug]

There's always room to deal. I just bought a 2009 hatchback for $13,5. The window sticker said $16,5. I have a set of 18" wheels on the way from Tire Rack so if anyone needs some stock wheels, with about 100 miles on them, let me know. I'm in Florida. $200

Doug

I didn't trade anything in, instead I sold my car on Ebay. Trades always make things worse when buying a new car.
Modified by mxdoug at 7:17 AM 9/25/2008

[jldavid47]

When it was all said and done, my calculation is that we paid $85 over invoice for our 2009 SL. That's pretty good considering that at the time Edmunds was saying that people were paying full MSRP.

By the way, I take no credit for that. My wife negotiated the price and did a pretty darn good job in my opinion!

[tishpit]

Just curious... why would it be wrong to negotiate from the basis of payment amount? Bottom line... I want my payments for no longer than 60 mos. and around the $xxx amount per month. Does it really matter just HOW they arrive at that figure? I know there is now 3.9% APR which is good... so what difference does it make if they give me $1000 for my trade and discount the new car or take MSRP and give me $4,000 for my trade... as long as the bottom line gives me the payments I need?

Yes, jldavid47, I too looked up Edmunds and saw full MSRP as the price people are paying in my area. According to entries here, there is indeed room to negotiate in addition to rebate or low rate financing offers. That gives me some hope that on the right car, we can indeed get to my price. If not... I may try Suzuki (SX4 crossover FWD) which I read is a nice car with lots of safety features and with $1500 rebate on a well-equiped $16000 car, not including any dealer discount, it may be more do-able, though I really do prefer the Versa). Bad economy and making about $3.50/hr. less than I was 5 yrs. ago makes me very cost conscious. Seems the SX4 (FWD, not the AWD) gets similar MPG to the Versa and that is my other important consideration in addition to reliability. But I still see the Versa as a more substantial vehicle so will really try to work a deal in the coming few days. Wish me luck!!!