Differential Side Plate Pulls Out

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Arjay8
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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The SLIP VDC BRAKE and ABS lights were on when I bought the car (03 350Z touring). I found the error was from the LR ABS sensor. Turned out the side plate was pulled out from the diff enough to mis-align from the ABS sensor and sling oil all over.

I dropped the diff, cleaned it all up, replace the side plate circlip with a new one (that is noticeably beefier) from Nissan. New seal, too.

I doubt I've put a hundred miles on it and the lights are back on and the side plate has pulled out again. No oil yet but lights just came on a few miles ago.

Anyone know what's going on to pull on that side plate like that?

Thanks in advance.


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evildky
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When you say "Side Plate" are you talking about the output shaft? If the output shaft is walking you might need to replace the circlip that retains it in the differential. Someone posted the same issue a while back but the car had a diff swap, I don't think he followed up but if yours has been swapped it could have the incorrect shafts.

Arjay8
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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The FSM calls the output shaft a side plate so I've used that term. But yes, that's what's happening. I already replaced the circlip and it "walked" again. I've owned this car for about three months and have no idea if the diff was swapped. I ordered the new circlip and oil seal from the dealer based on VIN so I suspect it's stock.

I'm stumped as to what to do now. Any ideas?

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

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evildky
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Do you have a vsld? All but the base model came with the CF driveshaft and the VSLD. The output shafts are different from the open to the VLSD units. the output shafts on the open are the same length both sides, the VLSD uses unequal lengths. When you replaced the circlip and slide the shaft in, did you feel the circlip pop into place?

Arjay8
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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I'm assuming this is a stock diff on the touring model (leather, nav, etc.). How do I tell if it's VLSD? And yes, the new circlip, which was "beefier" than the one that came out, snapped into place and seemed properly seated.

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evildky
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Not sure if it holds true on the newer VLSD's but the older ones had what appeared to be a washer in the middle of the diff when you looked through the holes for the output shafts. The shaft that came out did it look like one of these
Image
which are the VLSD outputs. or did it look like these
Image

Arjay8
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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Top photo, left shaft. Pretty sure. I don't recall the circlip groove being as far back as the bottom photo, right shaft.

So, it's VLSD. And therefore the two axles are the same length, yes?

If they weren't the same length, how different would they be? In other words, if someone used a short axle in error, would it be long enough to install but short such that it was pulling on the output shaft? Does that even make sense?

BTW, I'm impressed that you have these examples at hand.

Thanks.

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evildky
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Top photo is of vsld shafts, they are unequal length as shown in the pic.

The open diff uses the equal length shafts shown in the bottom pic.

If someone swapped in an open diff the spot where that circlip seats is not in the correct position and the shaft might walk a bit.

Google images for the win ;) I just knew what i was looking for.

If all is correct I can't help but wonder if the issue could be related to a bad cv shaft or even a bad diff bushing. When you pulled it out before was there any slop in the cv joints? That rear diff bushing is a common issue as these cars age. Unfortunately Nissan doesn't sell the bushing independent of the rear subframe so you'll have to go aftermarket unless you want to buy the $800 rear subframe. Pressing the old bushing out is a real PITA if you leave the subframe int he car but doable.

Arjay8
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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I didn't notice any slop in the CV but I like that solution better than the bushing. Unless you know of a better test I'll jack it up and have someone rotate the wheel back and forth while I hold the output shaft/axle joint to feel for play.

I've not changed an axle in this car but I assume it's similar to others.

Thanks for all the help.

Arjay8
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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I took a look-see and found only about a half-inch of play measured at the tire tread when I rotate the wheel back and forth. The play seems to be in the outboard CV joint. In other words the wheel moves a half-inch before the drive axle moves at all.

Doesn't seem like much to me but does it to you? A casual visual inspection of the rear diff bushing didn't turn up anything that looked improper. Does any of this make the "ah-ha!" light go on?

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evildky
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Shouldn't be any play, the shaft should have a small amount of in out play but you should have to push to get that, rotation should have zero play.

Arjay8
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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I changed the CV axle and the output shaft popped out after about 50 miles. So now I think I should be shopping for a used diff. I'll match VLSD and year-range, but does it have to have come from a manual transmission car? Will an AT diff interchange?

Arjay8
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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evildky wrote:Not sure if it holds true on the newer VLSD's but the older ones had what appeared to be a washer in the middle of the diff when you looked through the holes for the output shafts. The shaft that came out did it look like one of these
Image
which are the VLSD outputs. or did it look like these
Image
Now this gets really weird. I just removed the diff to replace it with the used one I found. Drained the oil and popped out the shafts. The left one (the problem one) looks like the left one in the top photo. But the right one (which I hadn't looked at until now) looks like the ones in the lower photo. So someone installed the wrong output shaft, no? Here's what I have: (left shaft is on left):
Image
https://www.flickr.com/photos/31159824@ ... 130243733/ (I'm not sure how to post a photo.)

I assume I need to find one from your lower photo. I'm not even sure what to look for.

Gad. Now I have to try to get my money back for the used diff. Wish me luck.

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evildky
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I wouldn't rush to return that new diff. The left one looks correct for a VSLD, the right one looks to be for an open. If your left shaft keeps popping out I'd suspect someone swapped in an open and only changed the one output shaft. If I were you I'd be looking for a vlsd right side shaft, might be worth changing out the left as well as all this popping out could be wearing things a bit.

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evildky
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also what numbers are cast into the diff case?

open - 38301-0c422
lsd auto - 38301-2c322
lsd manual -38301-2c422

Arjay8
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:22 pm
Car: 2003 350Z touring
1974 260Z (long, long ago...)

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With either of these diffs, when I rotate one output shaft, the other rotates in the same direction.
The markings on mine read:
KN1
26 20 061
383-110 C000

The used one I bought reads:
KN1
3 1 22 061
383-110 C000
The dismantler says it's from an '03 350Z VLSD. I called the dealer to ask if the diffs for manual and automatic were interchangeable and he said they are.

There is one more clue (two, really). The left output shaft (the one that pops out) is much newer looking, less rusty, than it's right hand counterpart. When installed, it "bottoms" solidly but sticks out about 3/16" more than the right one. It also fails to meet that "washer" in the center of the diff by a half inch or so. The distance from the "shoulder" on the shaft (that bottoms when in place) to the circlip groove is shorter than the distance from the bottoming-mating surface to the circlip groove inside the difff by about 3/16". So the circlip on the shaft is not snapping into the groove which is why the bugger is popping out.

It looks like someone installed the wrong left shaft. Probably wondered why the warning lights were on (when the shaft pops out the ABS sensor goes out of alignment, throwing a code). Never bothered to take a look underneath, I guess.

So, next question, what do I need to look for? The right-hand shaft fits nicely in the left side hole. I suspect I need a left hand shaft from your lower photo. But I can't even get an agreement on what it's called much less a part number. Does this sound like I'm finally looking in the right direction?

Thanks again for all your help. You have no idea how many blank stares and "crickets" I've gotten when I've asked for help with this one.


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