Difference between 2-way speakers, 3-way, and all that jazz

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SketchyRollin564
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So yeah, i have my s hitty stock speakers which dont even work up front, and in the back are pretty ****ty

so im looking to get a set of 4 6x5" speakers just to have some decent sound isntead of the ****ty boom box sound i have right now

so i went to walmart today and i noticed a couple different speakers, some said 2 way, some were 3 way, 4 way, etc.

So what the hell does all that mean? lol also, whats RMS rating and all that crap

basically, anyone wanna explain the basics of speaker info in a nutshell?


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Looneybomber
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2way = Midbass + tweeter3way = Midbass + midrange + tweeter4way = Joke.

RMS = Root Mean Squared Think of it as an averaged amount of power per given amount of time.

Peak = Maximum amount of power at an instant.

For example, if your amp was putting out 10v for 0.5 seconds and then 0v for 0.5 seconds and repeats. RMS (by how the manufactures use it) would be 5v. Peak would be 10v.

Wattage is dependent upon voltage and impedence. Look up Ohm's law.

Manufactures typically rate their speakers by their thermal handling, which is how speakers can still get blown within their power rating. A speaker's job is to make noise. It makes noise via a voice coil inside a magnetic field with power running through it (that's how the speaker moves). Nearly all the power fed the VC gets converted into heat. The motor's (VC, magnet, pole piece, ect...) job is to disipate that heat. It can only disipate so much heat so fast and thus it's thermal rating in watts.

Sound good?

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SketchyRollin564
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wow... that second part is wayyyy too confusing haha

why is 4 way a joke? and im guessing for just speakers (no tweeters or subs), then 3 way is the best way to go?

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Looneybomber
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4way's are a joke because they use such cheap drivers and crossovers. A good 2way will completely suffice because the limiting factor is the midbass due to a lack of displacement.

Displacement = cone area * cone travel.

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EW
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99.99999999% of 3way speakers (triax) are a joke. More "ways" does not=better sound.

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Looneybomber
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EW wrote:99.99999999% of 3way speakers (triax) are a joke. More "ways" does not=better sound.
Agree'd and cannot think of any particular 3way's that I'd choose over a good component set or 2way. But there could be that .0000001% product out there that I have yet to hear of.

3way component set is a diff story.

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shortmag
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SketchyRollin564 wrote:...just to have some decent sound isntead of the ****ty boom box sound i have right now...

so i went to walmart...


the crap walmart sells will be "boom box" quality, AT BEST!

SM

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SketchyRollin564
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they had xplod and some pioneer stuff, idk anything about speakers, but atleast its brand name?

im looking at a buy one pair get the second pair half off deal on crutchfield

so basically try to stay away from anything other than 2 way?

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shortmag
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you don't necessarily need to stay away from 3 or 4 ways, it's just that some brands may charge you more for them and it may not make a big enough difference to you to pay the extra. some people just like 2ways better and some don't. it's up to you.

I run 6x9 4-ways in my truck doors with component tweeters up on the roof of the cab, essentially making them 5-ways. and then i run 5 1/4 2 ways in the rear with component tweets essentially making them 3-ways.

it's all about what appeals to you and if you can get a good deal on some 3 or 4 ways, go for it. i doubt you'll be unhappy you went them over just 2-ways.

SM

oh, and Sony and Pioneer = FAIL

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SketchyRollin564
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im probably gonna go with thesehttp://www.crutchfield.com/App...tp=95

from what little i know about speakers, they dont seem bad at all for the price, and the reviews are pretty good compared to the other speakers at that price, plus i get the second set half off

if by the time i have money, that deal isnt around, i might save up a little extra and get 6 3/4" speakers for a little more bass

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shortmag
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SketchyRollin564 wrote:im probably gonna go with thesehttp://www.crutchfield.com/App...tp=95
Those look pretty good.

SM

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SketchyRollin564
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would it be worth it to try to get 6 3/4" speakers for the extra bass or will i barley even notice a difference? yeah i know thats what subs are for, but i kinda need my trunk space, and i dont wanna have to spend extra money on an amp, and getting everything together and all that stuff

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SketchyRollin564 wrote:would it be worth it to try to get 6 3/4" speakers for the extra bass or will i barley even notice a difference? yeah i know thats what subs are for, but i kinda need my trunk space, and i dont wanna have to spend extra money on an amp, and getting everything together and all that stuff
No. What you're looking to increase is sd (Surface area of the cone), which isn't increased, only the speaker basket is oversized to fit the oversized holes.

If you want more bass, you need to move more air, so either the speaker cone has to be bigger in diameter (increased sd) or the speaker needs more linear travel (xmax). sd*xmax=vd (Volume Displaced) It's that displacement that gives you your potential output, which is different depending on the frequency.

Right now I am working on "bass on the cheap" with my GF's car. I bought some ~$15.00 woofers, passive crossovers and will power them off the HU. Too bad one of my woofer baskets was bent and their overall size is too big for the hole. That project has been put on hold. Moral of the story is, they have more vd than the speakers you'll buy and thus have a greater output potential.

If you really want to get into some fun, make your own component set.Here's a prime speaker to use. 7" Dayton woofer, aluminum cone, and solid aluminum phase plug.

Morel tweeter; 1.125", fairly durable and will allow a low XO point.I can find 3-4 other good tweeter candidates too.

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SketchyRollin564
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i dont know anywehre near enough to try to do that haha

i just need 4 speakers for now, and since im spending money, id rather buy ones that are pretty decent, so im trying to learn some basics so i know what im looking for before i spend money

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Looneybomber
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SketchyRollin564 wrote:i dont know anywehre near enough to try to do that haha
It's really not hard at all. Just pick woofers that will fit where you want them and omit the ones with cone breakup or other resonances within the pass band. Then pick out a tweeter that will also physically fit, with a similar sensitivity, and with a power rating within range of what you're planning on using.

From there, either buy a prebuilt 2-way XO with the XO point close to what you're wanting to use, or build one yourself, custom tailored to your car for even better sound.

It's really not hard and if I had a Nissan to put a system in, I'd make a writeup. Right now though, I am working on "bass on the cheap" but really need to stay on top of my homework and continue working on my house system I'm building...which is a bit ridiculous. And incase you get the itching to build a bitchin house system, I'll make a writeup when I'm done.

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SketchyRollin564
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id love to, but like im saying, i dont have money for subs or tweeters, so im just looking for some decent speakers with good sound that have a good amount of bass (for speakers)

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go into a store and test them out to see what you like. every ear is different. then when you find the speakers you like, write the model number down, search online for a cheaper price.

you're not going to get much bass out of door speakers, and if you push them it'll sound shxtty. best bet would be a 6x9 2-way. those can take beatings, but fitment is an issue. 5x7's(6x8's IIRC) might please you also, but again door speakers(the ones inside the car and not in the trunk) SUCK for bass.

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SketchyRollin564
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what about for the rear deck?

eventually i want subs, but i wanna keep my trunk space, so im thinking two 6" subs in the plastic panels next to the rear "seats", like the one dude did in project raine

only problem with that, 1. its gonna be a pain in the ***, and 2. it might rattle my door panels and other interior parts that already rattle when i drive

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SketchyRollin564 wrote:what about for the rear deck?

eventually i want subs, but i wanna keep my trunk space, so im thinking two 6" subs in the plastic panels next to the rear "seats", like the one dude did in project raine

only problem with that, 1. its gonna be a pain in the ***, and 2. it might rattle my door panels and other interior parts that already rattle when i drive
you could just put in one 12 inch sealed box in the trunk, hide the amp directly on the box, that way when you want to remove the sub, just unplug the RCA's and move sub to the back seat temporarily while you transport the groceries. just dont leave it alone. it'll get stolen.

as for rear if you want you could try and modify them to accomodate 6x9's, of course, i wouldnt do that. things can get pretty ugly when you're cutting

Pegstir
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you're not going to get much bass out of door speakers, and if you push them it'll sound shxtty. best bet would be a 6x9 2-way. those can take beatings, but fitment is an issue. 5x7's(6x8's IIRC) might please you also, but again door speakers(the ones inside the car and not in the trunk) SUCK for bass.[/QUOTE]

I guess I am having the same problem. I have a mazda 626 yea yea i know this is a nissan page but it seems like you know what to are talking about. I had just bought 2 sony xplods 6x9 4way speakers for my rear deck. cheap and they actually sound good in my car with a nice bass. my question is my front door speakers need a 6x8 I would like to know the brand name and type (2way,3way,4way) of speaker that would bring me the maximum amount of bass. thanks

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stated earlier in this thread ;
Looneybomber wrote:4way's are a joke because they use such cheap drivers and crossovers. A good 2way will completely suffice because the limiting factor is the midbass due to a lack of displacement.

Displacement = cone area * cone travel.
EW wrote:99.99999999% of 3way speakers (triax) are a joke. More "ways" does not=better sound.
and i've never had 6x8(same thing as a 5x7 i'm guessing?), but when i had the JL Audio's they had decent bass. in them, i've also heard infinity kappa series and those are good too.

but in all reality, you need to go into a store, and listen to them. remember though, its not going to sound the same as when they're in your car. every car and every ear has different acoustics

Welcome to NICO by the way. stick around and if you can put up with the smart a$$e$ you'll love it here. search is also your best friend as well as navigation

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thanks. I will try to remember that.

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pics of your car or DIAF


Pegstir
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How do you put pictures on here? you wouldnt know how to install door speakers in a 2001 mazda 626 would you?

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very carefully

and [ img ] in front of the url for the pic and [ /img ] on the end of it. no spaces

Pegstir
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I have another question. I have taken physics before but its been awhile. The lower the frequency= the lower the tone or pitch=more bass

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i fixed my last post for you so you can now post pics

and when it comes to technicalities, you'd have to wait for someone that actually understands math.

i barely understand that i weigh 215 pounds. i'm like "lol WUT?!"

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Pegstir wrote:I have another question. I have taken physics before but its been awhile. The lower the frequency= the lower the tone or pitch=more bass
Back in the Renaissance and during the Baroque period, music was actually part of their science/math curriculum in universities because of how music works.

The lower the frequency, the lower the note. For example, I believe middle C on the piano is 440hz. One octave down is still a C, but at 220hz. C, one octave (8 notes makes an OCTave) up, would be 880hz. There is then rules of fifth where you take 3/2 to the power of things to figure out stuff...It's not something I've studied though.

Clear so far?

So yes, a lower frequency, will sound lower, but the term "more bass" is a qualitative way of defining a quantitative amount. But in this instance, more has nothing to do with how deep a note is.

More bass means more db's, or an increased SPL (Sound Pressure Level)

So 30hz will sound lower than 50hz.Increasing your bass output from 90 to 110db will sound like you have "more bass"

The bad news is, our ears are not linearly efficient. At 2khz, with undamaged ears, we have a sensitivity of about 0db's. Which means we can hear sounds at 2khz that are very quiet. (A mosquito in a quiet room from 3ft away) Actually our ears are so sensitive, if they were any better, we'd be able to hear air molocules colliding with our ear drums. Why is this bad? Because at 20hz, our threshold of hearing is around 60-65db's.

What this means is sound in the 2-3khz range at 100db will be very loud, but at 20hz, it will sound as loud as normal speech...sorta. You can't really compare the two, but it would be 40db above threshold and 40db is about as loud as people talk in a quiet setting.

So the moral of the story is 90db at 60hz will sound like more bass than 95db at 20hz because of the ways our ears work. Below 20hz, bass begins to no longer register as sound and instead is preceived as tactile forces.

Side note: Our upper extension of hearing is 20khz. For most people with slight hearing damage, that extension is typicall reduced to 15-18khz. With that said THERE IS NO REASON TO BUY SPEAKERS OR TWEETERS TO GAIN OUTPUT ABOVE 20KHZ!!! It's sales gimmick. Some advertised ridiculous frequency responses up to 40khz, and I've even seen 80khz in home audio products.

The funny thing is CD's, because of their technology, have an upper extension of 22khz. So even if you had a preamp, amp, and speakers capable of output in the 25-80khz range, the CD can't even have any of that information encoded on it. SACD is a different story, but you're still at the mercy of your ears.

Want to talk about tube amps?

Pegstir
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that actually made sense. I played in band so the octave stuff i knew. You did a great job refreshing my memory.

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Not to sound geeky or anything but it's actually the middle "A" that is tuned to 440 Hz - most bands/symphonies tune to A 440.


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