Destroyed a tire on my first attempt: thoughts? [pics]

[slipnfall]

Hi folks, Let me start by saying this was the first time I attempted drifting at our local track, and it's just something I've always wanted to try in my car. This was more of just a 'feeler', to see how I liked it and if I wanted to get serious about continuing to learn/practice. Anyways, I should have heeded the warning I read about not using your 'good' tires for the first couple practices/attempts. I completely destroyed my front passenger tire: almost like the rubber delaminated itself on the outer edge. Below are links to some pics. It wore down to the steel belt, and only held air long enough to get home(where luckily I had a full size spare that I swapped out). They are Yok. Avid V4H's BTW, and only had around 8000mi on them.

I guess I was doing 'OK' on my first attempt, but over the coarse of 2hours on two ovals, I felt like I was only power sliding through the corners...I had a really hard time breaking the rear completely lose and was basically understeering throughout most of the coarse.

Do you think this was the main reason my tire took a beating(none of the others were nearly as bad)? Simply because I wasn't initiating any full drifts and wearing the tire latterally? Instead I seem to just drag it at an angle?

My alignment is fairly common, with very minimal toe-in on the front. Stock sway bars, but KYB AGX/S-Tech springs(and oodles of other rubber/poly bushings/etc).

Anyways I had a good time, it was nice to push my car beyond the limit that I'm used to when running the full road coarse there(that I've been doing for a year or so now). I was just hoping to get a solid opinion on WTF happened to that tire.

Cheers,'slip

Pics: two of the passenger-front, and one of the driver-side(wore 'OK).

[McRussellPants]

Jesus man, you burned the **** out of those.

Basically, it seems like you were trying too hard and doing the noob "hey, understeer? no worries, Ill just turn the wheel more and floor it"

When you **** up and start plowing you have to get the car sorted out agian and the front gripping and then try and reinitiate. trying to get the rear end back out when your plowing as bad as you were isn't gonna happen.

LoL... those fronts was on Fiiiyaaaaaaaaaa.

[Kenrik]

Wholy **** your understeered you tires to death.. if you're doing it right the front tires should see almost no wear... what technique were you using to initiate?

[Nick240sx]

you - and your tire -

[MY S14 SR20DET]

holy crap that was your FRONT tire!?

[Nick240sx]

somebody needs to learn how to drift...well theres a first for everything, you shoulda tried to get like a watered down surface for beginning tries. but like i said, you live and learn

[NeedCAforS13]

somebody needs to learn how to drift...

dude loose the attitude. are you a pro drifter? then stfu. I hate it when people say that, especially when its the kids who sit in the stands and WATCH the drift events. At least he's trying, you'll only get better with more seat time!

[Nick240sx]

eh hem, now i have drifted on track before and ive had many experiences with drifting while driving, im not trying to act pro, all i was doing was suggesting starting out the same way i did.

[slipnfall]

Sorry for the late response guys/gals... yeah it was a sure-fire newb attempt. I think McRussellPants described it best: I was trying to re-initiate while plowing, something I wasn't familiar with untill now. Obviously I have some issue with basic technique here, and hope to better myself with some more seat time. The main problem I have is finding a safe/secure parking lot to work on just basics. This was an open-track session for only $30, and I thought I would give it a go in a legal manner.

Anyways, I was mainly using feigns(sp?) and power overs in an attempt to intiate. Coming up on the apex of the main oval, around 3.5k in 3rd, I'd start the feign, and just as I was about to snap back, drop 2nd and floor it. It worked well to get the rear tires lose, but I just couldn't get the rear end to pull out as much as I needed. So I did was McRussell suspected, just turned more and floored more, thinking it would eventually come around. Unforuntately this never happened, and why my tire ended up like that.

On the smaller oval I tried to ebrake it, but it only seemed to slow me down and not do much for me. I was hesitant to clutch kick because it really puts a strain on your drivetrain(so I've been told). My ebrake is adjusted as tight as I can get it without dragging noticably: are you guys able to lock up your rears with the e-brake in a straight-line? I can't...

Anyways, it will be some time before I can get back to try it some more, maybe sooner if I can find a local *FLAT* spot to try this out at. Perhaps I was a little reserved because screwing up on the track is much worse than at an open parking lot(deep drop-offs from the track, tire barriers, etc). And yes the track was very coarse asphalt, which didn't seem to help out on my tires either.

Thanks for the responses, maybe some suggestions on getting that rear out a little easier? I was always under the impression that front-engine, RWD cars naturally over-steer, but I guess the manufacture attempts to dial that out for safety?

Cheer,'slip

[Kenrik]

dude loose the attitude. are you a pro drifter? then stfu. I hate it when people say that, especially when its the kids who sit in the stands and WATCH the drift events. At least he's trying, you'll only get better with more seat time!

I agree Sean he was so harsh I cringed when I read the post... and yeah those kids in the stands at OSW get god damed anoying..

Anyway back on topic..

Lets say you're approching a turn that you want to drift... you should be going way faster then you would be if you actually wanted to make that turn, lets say for example 60mph. You want your rear tires to loose grip right? Well Clutch in.. Tap the brakes, just a bit untill you feel some of the weight transistion to the front this tap is usually way less then a second you don't want to loose that much speed... Now slam your foot on the gas... all the way to the floor and clutch out just as you turn the wheel in the direction you want to go! the rear will instantly kick out and as it does let the wheel slide through your fingers (don't completely let go) and when you're at the right angle grab the wheel to stop it and masage the gas pedal to keep it going...



That's just an example there are so many different ways to initiate depending on where you are, the turn, speed etc.. after a bit it becomes more natural and you find yourself just doing it without thinking, now I'm just a novice but I think I can handle myself pretty well on the track

Ebrake usually comes in at lower speeds and can take a bit to get used to.. because if you pull to hard/long you are just going to stop the car.. not enough and to tail won't kick out.. you will end up understeering.

[slipnfall]

Just a quick response: I always thought the braking weight transfers were more advanced initiations, but I'll give it a shot.

Thx for being patient w/me guys, and stickin' up for the newb.

[Kenrik]

Just a quick response: I always thought the braking weight transfers were more advanced initiations, but I'll give it a shot.

Thx for being patient w/me guys, and stickin' up for the newb.

Well it's not to advanced if you do it and it works now is it? lol actually what I said was more of a mixture of braking and a clutch kick (you're not so much just kicking it but you are clutching in, reving, and letting it go when RPMs are high) I am personally not so much a fan of feights as the only way of initiation.. you might do a feight or a clutch kick or a feint and a Ebrake.. get the idea? you don't only have to use one technique to get it sideways you mix them together depending on what the turn is and your style of driving.

[McRussellPants]

Braking Drift is gonna be pretty worthless in 2nd gear.

and you shouldn't be learning to drift in third.

The first way to fudge a course is the lowspeed initiation followed by mild angle manji. it lets you initiate at the bottom of second or so and speed it up before the corner so you shouldn't have to deal with a higherspeed initiation.

Second is super late clutch kick, like once the car has taken a set in the corner.

In my opinion figuring out higherspeed, quicker initiations is easier once you've learned how to control the car when its sliding and know how to move it around when you didn't get the entry right.

[Kenrik]

Braking Drift is gonna be pretty worthless in 2nd gear.

You're wrong but i'm not going to to make a big thred out of it. it's usless at slow speed but 2nd gear tops out at 55mph... Anyway it's not just a braking drift, but also a clutch kick at the same time.

[McRussellPants]

My point is that its doable and it works but your telling someone who spent all day baking the fronts around the course to combo up on entry techniques?

Keep it simple.

[BuLLeTdrift]

Just curious..what do you have an open diff, vlsd, lsd? LSD would deffinetely help getting the rear out a whole lot.

Kenrik: that was one of the clearest instructions for initaiting that sort of drift i've ever read. I read it many times, thanx.

McRussellPants: I agree with you. That is a lot of stuff to think about for some1 just starting out. not saying i'm experienced at all, but if you told that too me for my first couple attempts years ago, i might have laughed at you in confusion.

Ebrake is ez, so is clutch kicking. Just try those a couple times to get a feel for breaking traction and getting the back end out a couple times and gradually move up from there.

[chmercer]

open diff gets feint into foot to the floor.

Going from open to welded isnt so much the difference in initiation its the difference in throttle control mid corner.

Letting off the gas with open = snap.Letting off the gas with a diff makes things happen the way you want. (I'm to lazy to explain, and bored.

-McRussellPants

[Nismo_Freak]

Anyways, I was mainly using feigns(sp?) and power overs in an attempt to intiate. Coming up on the apex of the main oval, around 3.5k in 3rd, I'd start the feign, and just as I was about to snap back, drop 2nd and floor it. It worked well to get the rear tires lose, but I just couldn't get the rear end to pull out as much as I needed. So I did was McRussell suspected, just turned more and floored more, thinking it would eventually come around. Unforuntately this never happened, and why my tire ended up like that.

I've noticed alot of people that do a "feint" don't do it hard enough. They typically turn the wheel slowly and just allow the car to do it while accelerating.

To get a hard snap all you need to do is accelerate up to speed and while the engine is still wrapped up turn outwards at a shallow angle. Once you feel the car start to transfer weight to the outside snap the wheel back, let off the gas, and tap the brakes. My NX will slide sideways if I do this and it's FWD.

Be light on the brakes initially, it doesn't take much brake force to get the car to pivot. It's like left foot braking in a FWD car to get turn-in, only at a higher speed to initiate oversteer.