i was on freeway, in very hot , 115', conditions. all the sudden, my ign. and oil light come on, and it died. I have replaced the coil recently, and as this was still under warranty, replaced it again. no help. ballast resistor is intact. wires seem to be ok. I have had this happen once before, and it was a jumper wire for the gas pedal swith to the dist. secondarys. it was loose, "I think", and after tinkering with it for a second, it was good. not this time. I broke down in the desert, an hour from home, and need to get it home, but too expensive to tow. I am desparate for help. otherwise, a perfectly good truck is going to the grave. don't let this happen. please reply as soon as you can with suggestions.

The oil and ign lights came on because the eng stopped running.  May not have anything to do with the ignition.  Did you run out of gas?  If you hold the choke open so that you can look down the carb(air cleaner off) you should see a squirt of gas when you activate the throttle(move linkage on side of carb).  Or....take a can of starting fluid back with you.  Give a 1-2 sec shot of that down the carb and see if she starts.  If she starts, then you have a fuel prob and your ign if fine.  If she doesn't, you have an ign problem.  Take a test light with you and make sure it lights up on the + term on the coil with the ign switch in the run position. 

Take a new capacitor and a points(or a set of points) with you.  Good chance if it's ign, that one of those two failed. 

Good chance you got vapor lock and it died from lack of fuel.  If you didn't get the squirt of fuel I mentioned earlier and you know you have fuel, you may need to do the starting fluid a couple of times to get the carb filled back up.

Hope that helps.

mike, you mentioned in an earlier reply to a similar problem, to run a wire from the battery to the pos side of the coil. can i, after conecting this to the ballast resistor, drive the truck for about an hour?? I am hoping this is the case, as i will be attempting this first thing in the morning(6am) any better ideas? I need to get this thing just an hour home so that i can work on it properly.

see, the problem is that i am not geting anything off the coil.I tried to short it to the body, no spark from the coil. I know i have gas. the engine cracks solid, just no spark. will the jumper from the battery fix this,:? temp?

If the prob is that you have no power to the coil, the jumper wire will work.  The pos wire on the coil comes from the switched side of the fuse box.  You may simply have a blown fuse.

Sounds like you're trying to trick the coil into creating a spark for you to tell if it's good or bad.  You need to disconnect the neg side of the coil to be sure.  If the points are stuck closed or the cap is shorted, you'll have a constant ground to the neg term of the coil so pulsing a ground wire to it will have no effect.

I'd take a test light to make sure you have power on the pos side of the coil.  If you're still running points, you can also clamp the test light to the pos term of the battery and then probe the neg side of the coil......crank the motor and the test light should flash.  If it doesn't, you've got a prob with the points or condensor.

If you don't have a ground wire running from the dizzy body to the truck body(core support) ...you may have lost your ground through the block and the dizzy does not provide a ground for the points to switch the coil.

If I were heading out there, I'd take a spare coil, points, cap, fuses, test light and the tools to install them.

Good luck.

well, I already went out there, but I didnt check my mail before i left, so....I didnt think of the ground issue. I checked with a test light, the bat- to coil+ got light with ign. on, and stronger when cranking. bat+ to coil- during cranking=nothing. I opened the dist. body, with key on and spread open/closed the points. no spark. I have all dash lights, power at coil, no ground seems to be likeliest. UHGHGHGHGH. wish i woulda thought of that. makes sence as I was driving at freeway speed, had been for 10hrs., when it stopped for no spark. well, now all i got to do is get a ride BACK out there, and I should be good.

I'll let ya know.

Also, could you tell me where the three switches are for the dist point sec.?? one on firewall to gas pedal-bypassed it w/jumper. one under trans? push/pull type? where is third? could one of these failing do this, because I have all signs of life, except the spark, and so far everything looks ok,(I think). this is driving me crazy, :?:X:shock:  as I have to go back and forth an hour ea. way.

thanks for your help so far, it is a little reasuring that SOMEONE knows something about this stuff.

mike

Mike, while you're waiting go to our manuals section and head to 621's page and download the 521 manual that may help you find the solution. I think we loaded one there. If anyone can get you going Mike can. I'm not familiar with the 521 so I'll just say a prayer you get it figured out. Ken

I've only got a couple of min.  I was working on the NL all day, then raced out to the cruisin'.  Anyway.....


The second set of points is not to significant.  I wouldn't worry about the switches.  They only turn on the second set under specific conditions....which is something like....coasting in third gear. When they do get turned on, they are wired in parallel to the primary points, but because of their offset physical position, they change the dwell to retard the ignition.  It's for emissions reasons, not performance.  You can literally pull the wire to the second set off at the dizzy body and never notice the difference.  You could abandon them in place as a spare set.  If the first set fails, move the wire on the side of the dizzy from the primary set to the secondary set.  When you do that, the timing will be retarded by 10 degrees....so you can either live with the lack of power for the short term, or turn the dizzy a bit to advance it some.  I'd limp it on the lower power

If you opened the points with a metal key by twisting or prying against something on the dizzy plate, you provided the ground to the coil......so you never lost the ground to allow the primary field to collapse and create a spark.  If the capacitor is bad, they typically fail open, so it will not give the primary winding a path to collapse through....so points would have to arc for the primary to discharge, creating a surge in the secondary to make the spark. 

Next time you check the batt + to coil neg for the pulsing, turn the eng by hand(cap and rotor off the dizzy) and watch for the points to open on the high of the cam lobe.  When the points open, the test light should light up because it will see the 12V from the pos term of the coil....through the coil winding.  If it does not...double check that the points are open.  If they are, pull the wire from the terminal on the side of the dizzy....the one that is the signal to the coil.  Does it light now.  If so, look really closely at the plastic and insullation right where the terminal and stud go through the body of the dizzy.  Something may have gotten hot enough to warp/melt the plastic and is allowing the wire to groung out.  If you can, you can loosen the stud and disconnect the wire from the inside of the stud and see if your test light now lights(with the wire on the outside reconnected) If it lights, either the connector on the wire(inside) was touching the dizzy body or the points are bad and never open electrically.  If this is the case, move the wire on the outside of the dizzy to the secondary point term(remove the other wire) and do the same test...crank the motor and see if you get a pulse.  If you do, those points are good and it should start.  The timing will be 10deg retarded, so advance the timing a small amount to compesate.  In a really hot condition, retarded would be better anyway.  More advance is more heat.

It takes me about 10-15 min to troubleshoot this stuff in person......I just spent 30 min typing all this   I gotta sleep!   It's the end of my vacation and I have to get up at 4am to go back to a job that I can't stand!!!  Anyway.....

well, thank you for the very detailed process!! I found a guy to tow me home for $100, $250 less than anyone else. so when i get it in the garage, all should be good, and I can work on this. Thanks again mike!

mike

 

P.S.  my vacation was just starting when this happened. I was on my way to Georgia, after visiting in San Diego. Hope you enjoyed yours!

You're welcome.

Mine is over now

Mike, keep us posted on what you find out with your truck. I hadn't realized the dizzy set up was so much like the 620. I ran mine on one set of points and just kept the second set in the dizzy for emergency replacment. Good luck trouble shooting the problem. Ken

sure, just gotta get the thing home, then I will find, fix, or replace whatever it is and let you guys know. thanks again for your assistance.

mike thats good stuff to know and easy to understand. there should be a similer thread as a write up/how to or sticky somewhere. i book marked for future reference.

this stuff could put so many rigs back on the road instead of them going to the yard.

generally when my truck dies while going down the road it's usually the dist wire or coil wire that falls off.

btw the spade for the wire on the second set of points on these are wider so you cant just plug the primary wire on without opening the female connector a bit. or you can swap spades hopefully without dropping the little nuts down in to the dist body.

a few years ago my 521 died on the freeway. merging over to the shoulder more than one lane while coasting is a art. i had burnt one side of the points off!! i mean it was missing. i had one point left. after that i always carry spare points and condensor.

all this stuff is good, but I havent been able to apply it yet, as the truck is STILL:X in the desert. I know it's gonna be some stupid simple easily repaired thing thats gonna cost me up to $300 to tow home just to do the work. I don't know anyone down here with the patience to sit in the heat for an hour while I wrestle with this thing. We'll see, and I will let you know.

mike

I think as 521 Gatherer is saying as well as Mike Klotz, it's sort of the boy scout pledge "BE PREPARED" carry tools and extra parts for critical components. Upgrade parts that you can for reliability. Mike did you get the $100 tow home?

well, as I informed my aunt, who lives in the area (hate to ask for favors from her), she took it upon herself to get me a AAA membership, with a 100 mile tow limit, so...I will have it home next week, then I will work the magic. Thanks guys. Looking forward to being able to put all the tech help I've recieved to work.

okay, got it home today, but too hot to work on it at the moment. any more suggestions on why i have no spark at the coil wire, let me know.

Run her through Mike's tests and tell us what you have. Glad you have it home. Ken

well, I am at my wits end here guys. seems I have forgoten more than I remember about this stuff, 'cuz I can't find it. I have checked the bat+/coil - w/test light, and get nothing. I have power at the dsh lights, engine cranks, though no spark, nor anything "pulsing" at the coil. I don't know.... ?

Either the points are not opening, or they are not actually closing.  I pm'd for you to call me, but I'll post some more checks here for the benefit of anyone else using this thread for t/s'ing

With the test light clamp on batt +, touch the probe to the body of the dizzy.  It should light up, if not, your dizzy body is not grounded well enough.....run a ground wire from the screw holding the vac adv body in, to the batt -.  Try again.

If the test light lit up, that's good. 

Take the cap off the dizzy.  Pull the wire to the coil off of the terminal on the side of the dizzy.  Check to see if your points are open or closed. 

If they're closed, probe the connector you just took the wire off of.  It should light up.   If it does, turn your engine over by hand until the points are open.  Probe the connector again.  It should not light.   If  both of these checks work correctly, then I'll bet the wire running from your dizzy to the coil is bad.  Reconnect the wire to the dizzy and remove the other end of the wire from the coil neg.  Put the probe in the wire's connector and do the same to checks.  Points open, no light, points closed, light.  Since you've been getting no "pulsing" at this terminal, I'm not expecting this test to work.  Most likely, the first two checks at the dizzy term didn't work right.  If it works correctly at the dizzy connector, run a jumper wire from the dizzy term to the coil neg term...put the cap on and try starting it.  If it starts, your wiring is bad.

If the light still lit up when you opened the points up, (which you could do with your finger instead of turning the motor over.....do not use anything metal if you do it this way), then there's a short to ground.  Get the tools to loosen up the screw that holds the terminal to the plastic block...and the wire from the points.  When it's loose enough, remove the wire on the inside going to the points and the one on the outside going to the capacitor.  Does the test light light up when touched to the outside connector?  If so, your short is right there at that screw and plastic block.   This happened to another guy, he used a milk jug to cut out some plastic washers.  If it doesn't light up, touch the probe to the wire on the inside that you removed.  Make sure the points are open....use something to holding them open like a popsickle stick, wad of paper, or cranks the motor 'til the bump opens them.  If they are open and the test light still lights up on the wire to the points, your points are shorted...replace them.  If it doesn't light up, probe the wire on the capacitor...if it lights up, it's shorted, replace it.  If the capacitor came up shorted, reconnect the other stuff and run the test at the coil again....if you have pulsing now, the new capacitor should get you running. 

So if the light went out when you manually opened the points, but not when the bump is lined up, it could be from the block rubbing on the dizzy cam being worn too....or simply not adjusted correctly.  Maybe too much side to side play in the dizzy shaft?  If the block is worn down, you can readjust the points to get them to open/close.  I'd replace them, but adjust them first for testing purposes. 

If the light never lit up on the dizzy connector, you're not getting a ground to the coil.  Put the probe on the stationary side of the points and it should light up.  If it doesn't, check the wire that is supposed to be connected inside the dizzy from the moveable plate to the body.  That should be there to provide a ground to the plate the points are mounted on.  If it's bad, replace it.  If the probe does light up on the stationary side, probe the moving side with the points close(off the cam bump).  If it doesn't light, the contacts are burned, file them and check them again.  They may not be quite making contact either with is an adjustment issue.  Make sure they are physically touching each other before making this test.


I think that's about it.  Had a hard time keeping track of all the possibilities.  I pm'd you my number....I'm working evenings this week, so I probably won't be able to help(over the phone) unless it's in the morning.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:DWOOWOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

got it handled!!!

It was the dizzy body connector. Here is the way it went. I was light testing and probed the SCREW, thus giving me a good reading.....BUT....when I probed the SPADE, nothing. Not even the condensor would light up, so...after some time to ...evaluate(couple o' beers), AHH HA!!! switched the primary wire to the retarded side, advance my timing a lil, and vvvVVVRROOOOOOMMMMMM!!!

THANK YOU MIKE, You haven been a GR8 help!!

now, to sell it for ...$1200-1500

mike:dude:

My experience is if you are into old cars like I am, get AAA Plus. It's cheap insurance which gives you 100 miles peace of mind. Great thread and a keeper!

Glad you got it fixed

thanks for all the help guys, and yes, I do have AAA+, and used the 100mi tow to get 'er home. All good now, going out for a ride.

mike

nice going, you may want to keep the truck the way gas prices are going. people are so pissed the want manufactures to put little 4 cylinders into big ol suv's.

i think i'll book mark this thread for when my rig breaks down.

I have the AAA+ and have used it a couple of times to bring non running cars home.  Not necessarily when my cars break down but to bring home parts cars or non running cars that I've purchased in the past.  Did you know they have a 'AAA Platinum'?  That gives you one 250 mile tow.

Also....don't tell them it's a parts car or they won't haul it......according to their rules.  It has to be one that you intend on fixing and putting on the road. 

Some areas might be a bit more easy going, but just in case, don't tell them it's a parts rig

mklotz70 wrote: Quote »Also....don't tell them it's a parts car or they won't haul it......according to their rules.  It has to be one that you intend on fixing and putting on the road. 

Some areas might be a bit more easy going, but just in case, don't tell them it's a parts rig

[/quote]I try not to tell them anything other than the fact that I need a car towed.