Depreciation and wear

[Q45tech]

When a $50,000 car is 6 years old [100,000 miles] it's wholesale value is down by 75% MINIMUM [sells for $12,500 at best at an auction]. $38,000 in supposed value disappeared.

BECAUSE to get the next 100,000 miles can cost some serious money in repairs [not just serious expenditures for maintenance to stave off more expensive repairs].

Out of my 15 cents per mile [19-20 cents if dealer pricesare used] [with a escalating $50>current $70/hour T3 labor rate vs $90 at dealer].......[approximately 6-8 cents is for real repairs - replacing worn out or almost failed components]. [tires, brakes and fluild/filter exchanges run 5-6-7 cents per mile].

Why do you think the government is raising the tax deduction of a basic ecobox [or lux] car to 40 cents per mile...........they use 10 cents per mile for maintenace and repairs out of the 40 cents.

8-10 cents per mile is Honda Civic territory brand new under warranty!!!!!!

We saw it specifically when we reviewed all the dealer records for a 230,000 mile 1990 LS400/my Q from 100k-200k and onward to 270k and an analysis of other long term cars.

Even if you are an expert Infiniti technican, have all the $10,000 in tools and a place to work [real 4 post lift and air] and get the parts at 25% off list [INET or volume discount from local dealer]...............the Q is still an expensive car to maintain to standard because of parts cost and complexity.

Used parts can only take you so far as anything with rubber bushings needs to be NEW or almost so. Chain store Remanned are designed for 1 year warranty life except maybe transmissions.

Only 2-3 techs I know in State would dare to own an old Q [usually wife's car] surely not one to commute to work.........gas mileage in city due to weight plus wear and tear.

Can you afford the extra 10 cents per mile plus the gasoline.......about 35% more cost ------premium grade and comsumption.

Is driving the 90-96 Q worth an extra 12-15 cents per mile over a used Honda/Nissan pickup, etc.? An extra $150-200 per month minimum [per 1200 miles].

Most don't maintain/repair to standard and try to minimize the cost running the car into the ground.

Just for drill I've tried running 89 octane the last two fill ups now that it is 55F-35F outside..........rattle rattle/ping knock has been the result on even mild acceleration back to premium and the extra the extra penny a mile it cost......$25 per month ALONE.........but I am now driving 2500 mile per month.

All in all don't expect a used luxo car to be much cheaper to operate than a brand new econo barge with low financing...........but 40-45-50 cents per mile [gas, main & repairs, insurance, loan, tag and title] sure beats 60-90 cents per mile for a new car but not by much at the low end..........if you have the time to deal with old car issues.

We have had many customers who buy Q and sell within the same year.....What $6,000 in needed repairs [transmission a few misc], but I only paid $4,000-$6,000 for the car ........oh my diety!

Have to keep reminding potential buyers what they are getting into!

[elwesso]

Very good post dennis.. I guess its a reality check.....

Your right, i can say that you are probably one of the only people on here that maintains to spec.. Everyone else is close... Then theres the rest of everyone who drives and "doesnt fix what aint broke".....

They live with vibrations, warped rotors, squeaking brake pads, worn bushings, etc...

I konw my Q has been superbly maintained and its STILL not perfect... Id say to make perfect what Ive got, would need at least 2000+ at T3 work...

I might ask though..... Youve owned your Q since new, and now its probably on the home stretch..... Has it been worth it? Whats next after the Q dies? New engine?

[1qckser]

Awesome post Tech, that is the exact reason I own a 4 cyl vehicle as my everyday driver, 32 mpg and still some get up and go, and at well over 100,000 the car is still in excellent mechanical shape and still looks great, I rarely drive my Q so when I pull it out of the garage it makes it all the more worth while, however upon purchasing the car I knew that it was always going to be a project and not an everyday driver, but it has been very well taken care of and could serve this role if the G20 goes down for some reason.

[PalmerWMD]

I think its important to also look at teh difference between vehicles.

Yes our vehicles arent cheap to operate but many of our expenses regular cars have as well, plus some our vehicles dont like early loss of compression which mean you have to buy a new car.

I feel while a used Q45 costs more to operate in say gas and maintenance than a younger but also used econobox the actual differene in operating costys isnt anything to lose sleep over if you have a full-time job.

Fred..

[pito11213]

Dennis raises a good question. Is it worth it? The extra cost and expense. Well that answer will vary owner to owner. I have recently thought about getting a 4-cyl just to get around in. Leave the Q in a lot and work on it little by little and get it back up to par. The car is very expensive once you factor in labor prices. Parts prices will vary anyway. Whether you go internet, junkyard or what ever.

But when you do have the Q running right then you see where your work went. I am going to get more personally involved with my car as far as repairs go.

[JoshIsSciFi]

Here's a better question, how many of you ACTUALLY drive 2500 miles/month..... go figure that one out and get back to me

[gniknave]

Nice reality check Dennis! I've been using my Q as a daily driver ever since my Mom started driving (and has now bought) my 99 I30, and my girlfriend drives my 02 Civic. Having a mortgage and being a student - though I still work fulltime, it's a little hard for me to come up with the cash to pay for the maintenance on my Q. For 3 months I was driving 2500 miles a month, and other than new front and rear brakes and rotors, I did nothing but oil changes.

I'm going to get myself a little cheap beater 4 cylinder next month and let the Q sit until I can get it running the way it should. I still haven't done the chain guides, transmission is slipping a little, and I need 4 new struts. That's the major stuff in addition to the stuff I WANT like new seats and my Bose amps rebuilt. It's worth it to me though as long as it's not my daily driver. I like to drive cars that you don't see everyday on the road, and I consider my 90 Q one of those. I got into this knowing I WANT to put some money into this car to not only make it run like new, but to make it look BETTER than new.

Once I have it going mechanically, that's when the fun starts.

[Jesda]

I used to do 80-150 miles a day when I lived in Spokane -- not a densely populated town but its spread out over an enormous valley. Was valuable to have a quiet, comfortable vehicle on that crummy stretch of I-90. Put 21k on the Q that year.Now Im down to 100 miles a week (not counting NICO-related road trips). Maintenance costs might be a bit lower overall but I'm suffering from carbon buildup and other issues due to short drives mostly confined to my immediate neighborhood. Time to start tooling around in the 2000 Civic currently sitting in the driveway untouched.

-Jesda

[pito11213]

To see most of the post on here the mere fact that you guys even have access to a second car that is not even a piece of crap is amazing. Jesda if you have a 2000 anything sitting there run that till you get the Q running the way you want.

I dont drive 2500 miles a month but who cares? I drive I dont even really keep track of how many miles I do. I shouldnt have to. I just want to experience and enjoy my drive. I couldnt possibly break down my car to cents per mile.

[gniknave]

I can't speak for everyone, but it's posts like this that keep me knowledgeable about what I'm driving. I depend on this car to get me to school, work, to run errands, and to have fun driving too. If it takes the effort of reading every post I possibly can, trying every mathematical formula, that's necessary, and cleaning every component that people on here say is necessary, then I will make that effort.

Example: 3 months ago I read about MAF sensor and Throttle Body cleaning that may help resolve a rough idle, help acceleration and studdering. FINALLY just TODAY I went and did that those things following directions from Q45.org, and what a hell of a difference it made!

Anyway, I couldn't ever question Dennis' posts because he is obviously more knowledgeable about these cars than most of us ever will be.

[Q45tech]

My Q got lots of exercise from May 97 [100k] to Aug 2000 [200k] then sparse use till recently [like only 15k per year] currently at 270k .......will it survive some months of 100 miles per day. ~~3,000 per month.

With only 40,000 miles on transmission #3, I'm more concerned with 270k starter and engine internals but this way I'll see 300k sooner.

[Mark86T]

I put 23,000 miles on my Q in the past 14 months. From 53,000 miles to 76,000 miles in the 14 months I've owned it. My daily driver. I don't care what it costs me to drive or how much gas prices increase. I have put money into repairs since owning it but what used car doesn't need some repair? I LOVE IT & will not get rid of it unless someone totals it. Then I will buy another Q. I'm hooked & a diehard Q enthusiast now. For the $10,000 I paid for my Q I can't think of a better looking or more enjoyable car to own & drive each day, for the money.

[QShip]

I tell people all the time that my Q is my '67 Mustang. It needs some work to get her to where I want, but she's worth it.

So now, I park her in the driveway and drive the Titan.

[Jeff Williams]

I have crunched the numbers over and over again. It is expensive to maintain the Q. If I was to get rid of both, I would ahve to pay near $50,000.00 for a suit able replacement. 1 to 2 hour trips are no fun is a Dodge Neon, when you are used to the Q45.

The monthly payment on a $50K car, is deterent enough, to maintain the Q's. I save the $600.00 each month, for the purchase of the next Q, or repairs on the existing ones. So far, I am ahead.

The trick, is to have 2 Q45's. One to drive, while doing routine maintenance and repairs on the second one. The bad part, is that Evie drives the second one, so her I30t doesn't get dirty.

[96QQ45]

If the original owner bought the Q for $45k and then sold it to me for $10k after 100,000 miles, he dropped $35,000 plus maintenance. If I spend $10,000 in maintenance over the next 100,000 miles I will have spent $20,000. 5 years driving the Q for $20k sounds okay to me. It is still less than what many pay for new SUV's and luxury cars.

[Rocket420]

very informative post and siteused this info BEFORE I bought my '94 Q45I am used to driving big caddies but luv my q has power to burnbought the car here in Toronto with less than 100K on the dialcar is "on line" and tight as can be not a rattle nothing...I don't care what you drive you have 2K in maintenance yearly so the Q might just be a little more but for high end luxury the $$$$$ is worth it

[SEBZX79]

I drive close to 3k a month on avg and sometimes more. I dont use the Q for that since my wife drives it. I have a 2k Cirrus now with a v6 for that.

[Q45tech]

The question is CAN you drive a Q and only spend $10,000 in maintenance and repairs from 100,000 miles to 200,000 miles.

Maybe a 94 or 95Q might be close or if you don't expect it to be as new, possible...........my 90 Q cost $19,000 in M&R for that 100,000 miles, then since I replaced so much previously from 200,000 to 235,000 only cost about $6,000.

M&R from 30 miles to 271,000 has cost just at $33,000/14.0=~~$2400 per year on average, but since 1997 [T3 has done the work at a substainal savings discount] wholesale parts and half labor..........therefore I probably did more than anyone in fixing minor annoyances. Like replacing rear subframe, shocks every 60k, differentialm drive shaft 3 transmissions, ac system entirely, ABS, 3 fuel pumps, entire Bose system twice, special radiator.etc etc. Lots ans lots of suspension parts multiple times.

I went halves on a rearended wrecked Q that had a new front end from another previous wreck that yielded an almost new [10k] transmission, new alternator and Ac compressor, new headlights dozens of other things.Then sold my old transmission for $500 yielding a net cost of $250 plus another $250 for install labor for what would have been $8,000 worth of dealer work, that I just classified as $500 in the above $33,000.

12 cents/mile my cost or 17 cents at full dealer pricing.

Probably would have traded long ago if I knew I would have had to spend $40,000 equivalent.

You 94-95Q owners are lucky since fewer things go wrong due to design improvements.But $103,000 +/15 only cost < $7,000 per year to drive. That was a lot in the early years [value of dollar] but not so much today.

[maxnix]

I am compelled by the logic of the Civic argument until I drive my Acura Legend for awhile. It has decent performance, but it achieves it by driving it more demandingly. It burns regular, but the mileage is not significantly different. It may even have a little more room inside, but I would not want to go any smaller in Seattle even, let alone TX in a sea of pickups and SUV.

I recall a couple of decades ago when I purchased my first Suburban from a friend after my 1977 Accord had been hit about five times in one year (gold is not a good color). I commented I liked it pretty much but wished it had better fuel economy. He snorted at me and said, "Just think of it as cheap life insurance!" A few months later he was proven correct as I was the only one in a low speed three car wreck not to go to the hospital.

The Q45 is the best and most enjoyable life insurance I can drive.

[Q45tech]

The decent power [for a 4300 pounder] and good brakes and emergency handling [assuming it is up to standard with less than 60k on shocks] and appropriate SOFT tires for class [Michelin Pilot 400 treadwear or lower - H rated].Limited skip differential without TCS [on].Can save your life or at least reduce your chances of serious injury.

If you know the car well and its limits and are an expert driver with decent reaction time. Even in the rain.

As happened to me last night and frequently in Atlanta traffic.

You never know when you might have to spin the car and go the other way at 40 mph..........practice this.

Get the 20 mm [Q45a option] rear sway bar and new decent oem [or Tokico blue shocks] .

[maxnix]

The decent power [for a 4300 pounder] and good brakes and emergency handling [assuming it is up to standard with less than 60k on shocks] and appropriate SOFT tires for class [Michelin Pilot 400 treadwear or lower - H rated].Limited skip differential without TCS [on].Can save your life or at least reduce your chances of serious injury.

If you know the car well and its limits and are an expert driver with decent reaction time. Even in the rain.

As happened to me last night and frequently in Atlanta traffic.

You never know when you might have to spin the car and go the other way at 40 mph..........practice this.

Get the 20 mm [Q45a option] rear sway bar and new decent oem [or Tokico blue shocks] .

I agree! Have all except new blues on this car. Just 64K highway miles, so rears are just starting to get a little worn. Replaced shocks with Blues on other Q45 at 54K because they were leaking.

Just mounted the new XGTH 235/60-15 donuts. Very pleased so far (no rain yet), and they have more traction than the not yet worn-out XGTV 215/65-15 they replaced, probably due to vulcanization of the latter.

[Chrisfrend]

Are H rated tires generally OK on a Q45, or is this just in the winter? I have a 97, and the factory recommendation is V rated tires. A Japanese website seems to indicate that the JDM recommendation on some of the Y33 models is H rated tires.

Also, does turning the TCS off improve emergency handling, or am I misunderstanding Q45 tech's post? Thanks.

[Q451990]

You never know when you might have to spin the car and go the other way at 40 mph..........practice this.

Get the 20 mm [Q45a option] rear sway bar and new decent oem [or Tokico blue shocks] .

I think I need to go to Q45Tech driving school! Or some driving school to learn how to do that. I'm feeling like an expert if I can get it out of a fish tail (happened once or twice since 1996) dodging someone running a stop sign trying to T-bone me!

Heath

[JedCoop]

I don't compare any Q with newer boxes. I've been commuting mountain roads with traffic for years. The Q is fast, predictable, wonderful handling, great brakes, weight to compare with tippier SUVs, and hasn't died mid-commute. The '94 is even safer than my '92.

I added Z rated tires. The wear quickly, but they stop quickly and grip a lot, and are also worth every penny.

Yeah, a newer car is less likely to die mid-trip. That is why the older car is cheaper. And I do need to be more aware of what the car needs. There are many newer cars that can't handle the stress of my commute., but the Q sure does.

Costs? With an older car you save thousands on interest payments, insurance, excise taxes. For a $50K car interest at 5% is $2500/year.

But with an older car you miss that new car panache. Fooey. Besides, most folks don't look at my '92 or '94 Q and know what year they are. I put an extra $700 into the exterior of my new 94t - repainted bumpers, removed all dings, scratches, plus a couple chip repairs on the hood. Folks at work thought it was a new car. The low numbers in production and classic styling still look great. Lots of folks around here drive 4 year old california chevys (translation: BMW) that look older and cost more to fix than my car. Sweet!

I've put in about $500 in parts (+ my time) into mechanical & electrical on my recent '94 to get it up to snuff. It already had the under-plenum hoses done. I am almost done, about $100 more parts and it'll be perfect, at least for another 30K miles.

Some of what makes the Q better for me is that I am familiar with what is needed, and I've done the work before. I know what to look for when I buy one, too. And like most folks on this forum, it is a bit of a hobby, and I can more easily justify buying toys to keep my car maintained. Oh, and the know-how and helpfulness of this forum helps a lot, too.

Beyond all the practical & accounting stuff, I just like the car a lot.

[elwesso]

I agree Jed......

That said, even though its been said before, its probably one of the cheapest older luxury cars to own.. We get parts cheap, and we have plenty of know-how too... Unless you just simply can not do your own work, there is no excuse to have a very close to perfect running Q45...

[pito11213]

Wes the comment above is a little too general isnt it?

Are the parts for the Q cheap? I guess that is determined on your definition of cheap. In my eyes I cant say that the parts are cheap at all.

[Rocket420]

it's all relative I suppose...we are cruisin' in luxury vehicles pretty much everything on the car is going to cost more that of a econo or middle of the road car of the same year.

[elwesso]

Wes the comment above is a little too general isnt it?

Are the parts for the Q cheap? I guess that is determined on your definition of cheap. In my eyes I cant say that the parts are cheap at all.

Compare the prices of our OEM parts with the parts of BMW, MB, and so on... lexus may be comparable..... Parts arent cheap, but compared to the prices of other cars, and also the build quality of our OEM parts...

[maxnix]

Compare the prices of our OEM parts with the parts of BMW, MB, and so on... lexus may be comparable..... Parts arent cheap, but compared to the prices of other cars, and also the build quality of our OEM parts...

Operational expenses for my 1995 Q45 were quite a bit less than for my wife's 1995 Contour. And the Contour V6 motor still died.

[Rex]

A friends boss (who has always driven the slickest/newest BMW's and MB's) said never keeps them long, but said if he ever did he'd get a Buick. As he put it " I could dump a ton of money in either a Bimmer or Buick and they'd last about the same. I always found that funny.

What I took from that was for the most part repair and upkeep isn't going to vary too much from one $40k car to another $40k car, but will when you compare a $40k car to a $14k car.

In the end cars are all losses.