dealership problem. what would you do?

[lou from ny]

hello alli'm new here and am seriously thinking about buying a new rogue, but here's the problem. what would you do?

after some back and forth, i got kings Nissan in Brooklyn, NY to agree to sell me the following:2009 venom red rogue, sl model awd, cloth seats, with moon roof package, premium package, splash guards, floor mats, and navigation system. he's also included 1st service free. the agreed price is $24,500 plus sales tax, nys waste tire fee of $12.50 and $45 processing fee. the total cost of the vehicle is $26651.25. I'm qualified for the 2.9% financing. i know this is a pretty good price, but here's the bad part.

the finance guy kept us waiting 15 minutes for our appointment, the salesman said we could leave our payment on an American express card and we were told they don't take amex when we got there. we were told a cashiers check or cash were the only forms of payment. next my wife was asking about the color of the car and the salesman was saying this is venom, it venom, it's the right color. it just looked very different in the showroom in that lighting. when we looked at the car, it was FILTHY. one day it was spotless in the showroom, the very next day there was a layer of dust bad enough to write wash me on it. the wheel wells looked like someone was off roading in the car. there was muddy dried waster spots under there. when i showed the salesman and his supervisor the dried water spots on the front headlights, he said they mast have been cleaning the car with a dirty rag. ummm excuse me...cleaning a new car for delivery with a DIRTY rag??

i asked them if they deliver every car this way. they were very apologetic and asked me to return the next day for pickup of course with a bank check. i told them i didn't know if i still wanted the car.

another dealer told me he didn't have and rogues with a similar build and didn't know what he might be getting in during the next 1-3 weeks, so that's not an option.

what would you do? take the car? walk away? ask for something thrown in for the trouble of returning and the confusion of payment? if so, then what should i ask for?

thanks everyone for taking the time to read this and offer suggestions.lou

[maverick_rogue]

Hey Lou,

Based on what you described , I would rather look for the car somewhere else.

I know dealerships are (in)famous for playing mindgames and taking advantage but there are good dealerships as well.

You may want to play who blinks first with them.

I believe that when I am buying a car for life (atleast for long haul like six seven years) ,I want to make sure when I see my car daily in the morning, I feel happy to see it. It should not remind me of some compromise that I had to make while procuring it.

If they dont respect you or keep their words ,they dont deserve your money as well.

But you are the best judge of the circumstances so take a decision that best suits you in the long run,

Good Luck and happy driving!!! Rogue is a great car and you will be glad you bought it.

[Elton Noway]

hello alli'm new here and am seriously thinking about buying a new rogue, but here's the problem. what would you do?

after some back and forth, i got kings Nissan in Brooklyn, NY to agree to sell me the following:2009 venom red rogue, sl model awd, cloth seats, with moon roof package, premium package, splash guards, floor mats, and navigation system. he's also included 1st service free. the agreed price is $24,500 plus sales tax, nys waste tire fee of $12.50 and $45 processing fee. the total cost of the vehicle is $26651.25. I'm qualified for the 2.9% financing. i know this is a pretty good price...

Hi Lou... What a pain huh! I hate buying cars! Actually... depending on how the Nissan rebate was handled during your negotiation to reach $26651... the price is either pretty good as you state...or again... maybe just okay.

Here's the deal: The US Nissan dealers "cost" (what the dealer actually paid for the car you want) ... with all the options you identified (awd, floor mats, moon roof, navigation etc)... after dealer holdback and incentives... is $25,110. "This" should be your starting point for negotiation. NET: Always negotiate "up" from what they paid not down from MSRP. This gives you the upper hand. Basically any amount you pay over and above their cost is their profit... plain and simple. All you have to do is determine what you are comfortable giving them for the transaction. Its only fair they should make something on the transaction, nobody goes into business to lose money.

Also... as you may know... right now Nissan is conducting their National Tent Event. All new Rogues buyers get a $1,250 rebate. You can either take the rebate or apply it to the sale. You didn't mention what you did with the rebate. If you are keeping the money (taking the check) then you did indeed get a good deal, however if the dealer applied it to the sale and your price is $26,651 then like I said... not a great deal.

I purchased my 2009 Rogue a week ago today. (only 12 miles on it). Anyway , dealer cost the model I configured was $23,306. I added $300 to their cost and told them to apply the rebate to the sale. I told them I wanted the car "out the door" for $23606. Out the door means just that... my bottom line price "including" all state/highway tax, registration fee, title fees etc. I would not pay one penny more.

At first it might seem like I'm giving them the $1250 rebate and $300 for a profit of $1550. But... the price I offered was "out the door, including all taxes, fees etc. On the sales contract they adjusted sale price of the car so after adding in all the fees, taxes and other itemized line my total bottom line due was $23606. Since I only paid $23606 they only netted $300 on that piece of the transaction. With the rebate they now had $1550 to work with. They applied part of it to cover highway tax , registration fee, title fee, filing fee etc. (totaling $830) So... when the dust settled the dealers profit was $720.

If they applied your rebate to the sale... its not a great deal, so with all the yanking around they've put you through I'd walk away and not feel bad at all! If they let you walk they're crazy. The problem is you have to let them know you are serious about not coming back. Throw your arms up and say that's it... the deals off. And walk. If you don't walk... then as long as they think they have you on the hook... they have no reason to add incentives or lower the price. In my case, once I knew what the dealers paid for the vehicle I wanted... I then used autotrader.com and cars.com and searched for all 2009 Rogues within 50 miles of my zipcode. There were PLENTY to pick from. I was willing to drive 50 miles to get the car I wanted at the right price.

As you may know, the closer it gets to the end of the month the more bargaining power you have. Nissan is running the tent event to make way for the 2010 model coming out in 2 months. Be firm. DON'T let them throw you a bone... like; We'll give you... 3 free oil changes... or throw in interior fabric treatment (a couple $5 cans of ScotchGuard)... or underbody rustproofing (spraying the bottom of the car with $25 of a cheap petroleum based product) or any other form of bull crap restitution they may offer you. Those items are practically free to the dealer. When negotiating for something make it worth wile. For instance... Rogues come with crappy Continental tires. New Nissan Altimas buyers are given a tire choice between Continental and Michelin tires so the dealers already have them in stock. While the tire choice is not offered to Rogue buyers if you tell them Michelins on the Rogue will make the deal happen... you'll get them. Its no skin off their nose. Or tell them you want them to throw in the 5 year Gold+ warranty package ($750 value on a Rogue)

If I walked into the Kings dealership tomorrow and was making an offer on the very car you are looking to buy I would tell them to keep the rebate (apply it to the sale) and I want it "out the door" for $25,500. Period. If I'm keeping the rebate and not applying it the the sale then the $26651 you got is a good price. The biggest problem you may now have with Kings is (if they kept the rebate) is you've already indicated you were okay with the price of $26,651.

the finance guy kept us waiting 15 minutes for our appointment, the salesman said we could leave our payment on an American express card and we were told they don't take amex when we got there. we were told a cashiers check or cash were the only forms of payment.

Yep... the hurry up and wait came. Typically the dealership finance guys are working multiple contracts at the same time. As a result they always seem to run late. If someone is in front of you you'll have to wait for them to close the deal before you can get your turn.

The salesman who told you they can take a Credit Card was dead wrong. I can't help but wonder if it was just a ploy to get you into the dealership.

next my wife was asking about the color of the car and the salesman was saying this is venom, it venom, it's the right color. it just looked very different in the showroom in that lighting.

Ha... we had the same problem. We wanted Phantom White. My wife and I test drove a white Rogue during the day but when we went back the following night to make the purchase the car they brought around looked totally different under the artificial lighting. It looked light yellow. I told them I didn't look like the same color white I saw the day before.

when we looked at the car, it was FILTHY. one day it was spotless in the showroom, the very next day there was a layer of dust bad enough to write wash me on it. the wheel wells looked like someone was off roading in the car. there was muddy dried waster spots under there. when i showed the salesman and his supervisor the dried water spots on the front headlights, he said they mast have been cleaning the car with a dirty rag. ummm excuse me...cleaning a new car for delivery with a DIRTY rag??

Well...until a deal with you, or another customer, is comnpleted on the car you want ... they will continue to try and sell the vehicle and let people take it for test drives. It probably went on a couple test drives. Somebody may have even taken it into a dirt field to test the AWD. Hard to say. The good news is most all car dealerships detail all their cars before delivery. I'd be shocked if they didn't do it for you.

i asked them if they deliver every car this way. they were very apologetic and asked me to return the next day for pickup of course with a bank check. i told them i didn't know if i still wanted the car.

what would you do? take the car? walk away? ask for something thrown in for the trouble of returning and the confusion of payment? if so, then what should i ask for?

This is where you lost me... You asked the dealer "if they "deliver every car this way" Did you already take delivery? If so... you can't walk away.

another dealer told me he didn't have and rogues with a similar build and didn't know what he might be getting in during the next 1-3 weeks, so that's not an option.

Well... if you can't wait 1-3 weeks then you leave yourself little room to negotiate. I shopped solid for about 2 months. I walked away from the exact model, color and features I wanted several times... my wife ready to strangle me. However thanks to autotrader and cars.com I continually found more Rogues with the exact config. Good luck... don't give up.

p.s....We Love our Rogue

[sheaitisnotso]

I think you're talking about down payment on your Amex right? How much were you going to put down?

I bought my Rogue last Saturday and put my $2000 down payment on my Mastercard, so not sure what you mean, Elton, by saying the salesman was dead wrong. I guess it might vary by the dealer.

I bought the same SL AWD as you but in Indigo Blue with leather and think you've got a pretty good deal so far. But it can't hurt to get the best deal you possibly can, so do like Elton did and check out other dealers within 50 miles, maybe even call around and try to get the dealers to go lower than that one you're currently at. Even if it is a different color, just get a quote with the same options and then go back to your dealer to see if they'll beat it.

Good luck to ya! I've already put 100 miles on my new Rogue in a week and I love it!

[lou from ny]

i'll post more after work today, but here in NY the rebate doesn't exist. the only deal is 0% for 36 months or 2.9% for 60 months. the dealer gave me $500 rebate he said he gats from nissan.

i didn't take delivery. it's sitting there with a temp. registration sticker in the window and plates on the car.

lemme get to work...thanks guys

[Elton Noway]

I think you're talking about down payment on your Amex right? How much were you going to put down?

I bought my Rogue last Saturday and put my $2000 down payment on my Mastercard, so not sure what you mean, Elton, by saying the salesman was dead wrong. I guess it might vary by the dealer.

Hi sheaitisnotso...I stand corrected. In my original reply I was more or less addressing the idea of placing the entire purchase on a credit card rather than just the deposit. My error. Yes... most all dealerships will take a down payment on a credit card. I based my reply on the responses I got fro two local dealerships when I asked if I could place the purchase on my credit card. Both said "No way... not an option." However I never really pushed it. Bummer.

After more research I learned something new and I'm now kicking myself for not researching it first. I "could have" put the entire purchase on my credit card if I pushed the issue. Since I planned on paying cash... I wanted to use my credit card to buy the car as I earn points and air miles. $20K would have added a good chunk to my balance. Then I simply would have paid off the credit card when the bill arrived.

I found this searching the net: __________________________________________

By Terry Jackson • Bankrate.com

A few weeks ago, I responded to a reader's question about the possibility of putting the purchase of a new car on a credit card.

Based on my personal experience -- and that of several friends who tried to do this -- I replied that most dealerships won't allow the full purchase price of a car to be put on a credit card.

Some will allow part of the purchase price -- sometimes as much as $5,000 -- to be put on a card. But they balk at putting the full price of a car on a credit card because the dealership must pay the credit card company a fee that ranges from 2 percent to 3 percent of the purchase price.

With profit margins thin on many new car sales, dealers aren't eager to give away another $600 to $900 on a sale of a $30,000 vehicle.

UPDATE: After my response was posted, I received this e-mail from Matt Fadiman, vice president at Riverbank in North Andover, Mass.

"I have worked in banking and merchant card services for 15 years, and unfortunately (Jackson's) response was not accurate. He was correct that the dealer would pay an approximate 2 percent fee on the transaction. However, as per both the MasterCard and Visa merchant agreements, a participating merchant must accept that credit card (assuming it is valid and approved) for all purchases. The merchant cannot, by policy or practice, decide which transactions it will allow and which it will not."I do agree that in reality many dealerships will attempt to refuse to charge the sale on a credit card, but when pushed they will back down. I have purchased my last 4 cars all on credit cards. To say the least the dealer was not happy, but when presented with both a copy of the merchant agreement, and my declaration to pursue with the credit card company, they quickly reversed their position. My calculation is that between the rewards (cash back) and the zero percent rates on the credit cards, my savings were well in excess of $6,000."

[lou from ny]

elton,the car was $25,000 tax was $2093, ny waste tire fee was $12.50dealer application fee was $45this brings the total to $27,151he took off $500 dealer rebate bringing the cost to $26,661

based on your numbers i'm getting the car for $24,500 which isn't bad since it's below "cost" i think i mentioned the car they had had the navigation system (yes a garmin that's horribly overpriced...edmunds says $25,621 is the invoice and others are paying$25787http://www.edmunds.com/new/200...ion=2

as i mentioned, based on my zip code (11204) the website isn't listing any rebate at all, just the financing offer.

i don't need the gold warranty (i THINK i don't) since i have geico and have mechanical breakdown for 7 years/100,000 miles.

the bank guy had nobody with him, he was doing lord knows what, but he wasn't ready at my appointment time. not a good way to make a sale.

i've been in and out of the dealership, the car was inside the showroom for weeks. it was spotless and of course had people sitting in it, but the milage was 36 on the odometer. since then, it was pulled out for detailing for my sale and left in a car port for a few hours where it got very dirty (mostly dust, but not pristine as i'd expected) it currently has "my" plates and a temp. registration in the window.

i haven't accepted delivery due to the bad info with the credit card. all I've actually done is write a preliminary contract and leave a refundable $100 to start the process of credit check etc...i was supposed to leave a much more sizable down payment which i didn't do as a result of the poor service i got. i told them i had to think about if i still wanted the car.

sheaitisnotso,i was actually going to put down another $8000 over the $100 i gave them. i also was trying to get some points on my AMEX, but when i walked in the door i was told the max on a CC was $4000 and they don't take AMEX only master or visa.

any other suggestions guys? please keep em coming. i actually thought i got a really good price based on edmunds.comlou
Modified by lou from ny at 12:43 PM 5/16/2009

[RubenTheRogue]

ALWAYS check mileage before accepting delivery. My Rogue came with 45 miles on the odo. My dealership "traded" for it with another dealership 42 miles away (according to mapquest), so I know it wasn't messed with by a lot jockey or test driven excessively.

I doulbe checked the mileage on the pprwrk against the odo reading BEFORE I signed.

On a side note...as we were doing final inspection for delivery, a couple came up, opened the driver's door and tried to get in. I said "I'm sorry, but this is my car." The wife got all bent out of shape and said she was there yesterday and drove it and was buying it today. The dealer had just gotten my car that AM, detailed it and I picked it up at 4:30pm. She was actually arguing with me that she was buying MY car! Her husband got all snotty and started in, then yelled at the salesman who had no idea WTF was happening. My Rogue was the only Silver Ice on the lot...the reason they had to get it from somewhere else. The husband then told the salesman that he would give them $1000 more than what we paid. I hope the dealership took those jerks for every penny they could.

[lou from ny]

ruben,see, now that's why i kinda want the one i saw. it hasn't been driven much and should break in very nicely. i can tell you i did beat on the car i test drove. i over-reved the engine both in auto mode and using the paddle shifters on the wheel. hell, i wanted to see what the little 4 cylinder engine could do. (it's pretty peppy!!) i also had to test the anti-lock brakes hehehehe....

based on my past experiences of buying 2 new cars and a new motorcycle or 2, i won't be using Nissan for repairs unless they are warranty issues. i will let them install remote start for a negotiated $259. yes it's high, but not as high as the crazy price they wanted (i think $400) so I'll keep the electrical part of my warranty for now.

i guess unless i get some more suggestions, i may just say screw it and get the car i saw, dirt and all, but i sure won't be sending my friends to that dealership.

come on guys, what would you do? is it a good price for what I'm getting?

[RubenTheRogue]

Check out edmunds.com for a decent market analysis (TMV) for the 09, I bought a fully loaded 08 before the height of sales for $26,000 OUT THE DOOR. That meant my sales price was $22-23000ish. That was using leverage from USAA's car buying service through a Nissan dealership a few towns over...I pitted the 2 dealers against each other.

I know people who got better deals and some who paid far above what I did.

[lou from ny]

i've done that:2009 Nissan RogueSL 4dr SUV AWD (2.5L 4cyl CVT) TMV®What OthersAre Paying MSRP Invoice National Base PriceA note about advertising fees $23,010 $21,450 $21,660 Regional Adjustmentfor Zip Code Change - - -$88 Optional Equipment $3,415 $2,942 $2,979 P02 Premium Package (AWD) $2,230 $1,935 $1,958 J01 Moonroof Package $950 $825 $835 B10 Splash Guards $125 $100 $102 L92 Floor Mats $110 $82 $84 Color Adjustment - - $0 Not Sure Destination Charge $780 $780 $780 Total with Options $27,205 $25,172 $25,331

so $24,500 is pretty good or so it seems.

[RubenTheRogue]

As long as you're happy about what you get for what you pay, that's all that matters. There's always someone who can work a better deal.

Are you a Cosco or USAA member? Those companies have auto buying services that offer a standard price negotiated with certain dealerships local to you.

[lou from ny]

y'know, i'm pretty happy with the price, but not happy with the service/quality of the dealership. i'd like for them to offer me something as an "i'm sorry" but don't know what to ask for or what would be fair. that's my real issue

[RubenTheRogue]

If you're just buying from the dealer and don't plan on servicing from them, then take the deal & run (providing the Rogue meets your approval on delivery). However, if you don't like their service and handling, it can give you a 'head's up' of how you're going to be treated when/if you come in for service. Remember warranty work...not just oil changes & tire rotations...

I had a great buying experience from my dealer...their service department sucks. There are other Nissan dealers in my area that I could take my Rogue to if necessary, but the service dept isn't mad at me yet for complaining or anything...but I'm not brining it back for regular service anymore, only if something goes wrong under warranty.

[lou from ny]

well, wouldn't you know it, i took possession of the rogue, got a walkover of the car, (the salesperson had to go back inside and ask someone else for a few answers) and drove it home. sadly, my wife immediately finds that the overhead lights don't work when the doors are open despite all the fiddling i do with the buttons. of course Nissan says bring it back to the service dept when i can, but i don't have the time or patience for that. i check the fuses and the bulbs to find both bulbs burnt out. a quick trip to auto zone and $3 later, the car works again.

wish me luck, I'm afraid i may need it.

[sheaitisnotso]

Good luck Lou. Hope that's not a bad omen.

[lou from ny]

me too my friend, me too

[defiant324]

The way I see it, there's always another dealer... I was lucky in that Nissan participates in my company's Preferred Customer discount program. The price is pre-negotiated. I went to the dealership closest to my house during their President's Day sale in 2008. They were giving $500 during their President's Day promotion. Well, they didn't have a Rogue with the interior color I wanted & they were trying to pressure me into taking delivery of a different one right then & there. I wasn't ready to do that even if they did have the one I wanted. I refused to let them push me around & spoke with a manger. I was told that if I took delivery on a different day I couldn't have the $500 off. I basically told them "I can go to ANY Nissan dealership & get the exact same price on the vehicle because of my company discount" Shortly after that, I was told I was getting the $500 discount AND they were getting the one I wanted from another dealer. There's always another dealership.... And sometimes you don't even have to actually go there.

[koolyce]

The US model come with a navigation system?

[lou from ny]

by going back and forth, i was able to save a few dollars and who couldn't use some more money these days...

yes koolyce, the US model had an option for a factory installed garmin system. it was horribly overpriced and i wouldn't have gotten it if they didn't throw it in for free. ( i just realized i wrote that in an earlier post...sorry) what makes it special is it says nissan when it boots up...ohhh ahhhh big deal



i ended up getting the remote start installed at first service. i paid dealer cost or close to it at $259 with free install. i'm sure it will come in handy during the cold winter months.

[koolyce]

Ok, it is not a Navigation system integrated to the dash?

[lou from ny]

nope it's a garmin 750. Portable Garmin® nüvi 750 Navigation System

Forget about pulling over and asking directions. Just touch the screen and you'll get turn-by-turn voice guidance to your destinations.

* 3-D map views and zoom * Dash-mounted for easy recharge

® Garmin is a registered trademark of the Garmin Corporation.

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