CVT stands for POS

[louiegz]

I know it's off topic for this forum, but I rather talk to my peeps.

So my wife got into a little fender bender in the Bimmer so when she dropped off the car to get fixed, the insurance company provided a rental car for her. It was a Mini Cooper. Cool! I've been looking forward to driving one because they're supposed to be fun to drive. As I figured, it was the base Mini with an auto. What I didn't know until I drove it that the auto is a CVT. CVT gives slush box a whole new meaning. It was so slow off the line. The engine would ref and we would be going so slowly. I wasntt even sure at first it was a CVT because I would get to the red line and it would drop from 6000 rpms to 5000 rpms and then go to redline again. It would do this like 4 times like it had 5 gears. It struggled to get to 100mph. As far as the rest of the car, it’s as cute as a button. Looks cool and handles great. The only thing that ruined this car was the supper sluggish CVT. So for those getting new cars, keep away from the CVT.

[240TweakerNewbee]

This technology intrigues me I must admit, but hearing what you have to say brings up the suspicion I have had about this technology after doing some research. I have heard that Nissan is putting CVT in many of its vehicles in the next couple of years and that they have come up with a way for CVT to be much more responsive and quicker off the line.

Honestly in theory it is the best way to keep a motor in its optimal torque range which will increase gas mileage and make the car faster from 0-60 (or whatever) than a standard automatic or even a manual. Just getting the technology ironed out is the only obstacle here. Maybe Nissan has done that; I'd like to find out:

http://www.nissan-global.com/E....html

In December 2004, Nissan introduced a new generation of XTRONIC CVT units for medium class models, starting with the Nissan Lafesta minivan. Improvements include the tuning of the hydraulic and electronic controls to boost the CVT shift response, and the development of a wider gear ratio range, contributing significantly to the acceleration and fuel efficiency under ordinary driving conditions. Combined with Nissan's new MR20 4-cylinder gasoline engine and other improvements on the vehicle, average fuel efficiency has improved by 37% compared with an existing same-size vehicle*2.

The wide application of CVT, which significantly improves fuel efficiency, will help to reduce CO2 emissions, one of the major causes of global warming.

Nissan is currently the only manufacturer in the world to offer a full CVT lineup for small, medium and large class passenger vehicles.

Nissan's CVT units are built by Shizuoka-based JATCO Ltd., a consolidated subsidiary of Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.

###

*1 Unlike conventional stepped gear automatics, Nissan's CVT operates essentially as "one gear" through the use of a belt and two pulleys with continuously varying diameters. The transmission eliminates the "steps" between gears, resulting in smoother, more responsive and more efficient operations. Compared with a conventional 4-speed automatic, CVT offers a 10-12% improvement in fuel efficiency.

*2 This is based on comparison between a new and old model vehicles. The average fuel efficiency improvement in the practical speed range was calculated according to Nissan's in-house standards that combine various driving conditions, including congestion, city and express way driving, based on the results of a survey of real-world driving conditions.

[TgduMg]

Personally, I prefer feeling the car pull to redline, the push of the shift, then repeating the process. Snap my neck, please.

I've driven a Mercury Montego AWD CVT and Ford Five Hundred FWD 6-speed automatic back to back and would rather have the 6spd auto even if it meant going without the AWD option.

FoMoCo is offering an AWD option with the 6spd auto and 3.5 Duratec engine for the 2007 MKZ (the renamed after one year Zephyr) instead of the CVT.

The Lexus GS450h and soon to be introduced LS460h have some sort of CVT.

I have been interested in driving an AWD or FWD Murano though to see what they are like to drive.

The reason that I was driving the Ford products is because the time has come to replace my mothers 02 Taurus. In the course of my research, I took a Caddy STS4 and Acura RL for drives. But back to the CVT. I myself don't care for em and hate that it's the only transmission available in the 07 Maxima. The 07 Altima has the choice of a manual 6 speed or CVT.

Being that I like the looks of my 02 Maxima over the A34, my preferred replacement for it would be, choice #1, 2006 G35 Sedan auto. Choice #2, 2006 Altima V6 auto. I like the looks of the 2006 G Sedan and Altima better than their 07 replacements, but I've yet to see the 07's in person.

I like most of the interior and exterior updates on the 07 Maxima. Like the elimination of the solid Tooth in the grille but wish that grille opening size and shape was the same as the 2004-06, the rear spoiler could have less of an upward angle and could be a little smaller, love the SE wheels and relocation of the fog and cornering lamps.

I've read post of those who have either purchased or test driven 07 Maximas and many seem to love em', stating the CVT fools them into thinking they aren't going as fast until they look at the speedo. So I guess I'll have to check one out for myself.

But still if I had to go FWD, the CVT could be a deal killer for me. But instead of looking at Avalon/Camry/ES350 or Accord/TL, I'd try to shoot for an G35X or Acura RL.

Danisiti 1

[BadQ45t]

The commericals for the new Maxima tout the CVT, anyone seen those yet?

[louiegz]

This technology intrigues me I must admit, but hearing what you have to say brings up the suspicion I have had about this technology after doing some research. I have heard that Nissan is putting CVT in many of its vehicles in the next couple of years and that they have come up with a way for CVT to be much more responsive and quicker off the line.

Yea I found this technology intriguing too, but I think Nissan is dropping the ball on this one. VW made a better choice going with better technology. DSG. In fact VW plans to have DSG in all their FWD cars by the end of the decade. They say that the DSG shifts faster than a manual transmission and smoother and more reliable than a conventional automatic. It can also handle high powered applications better than a CVT. what more do you need to know.

http://gadgets.autoblog.com/20...ts-up/

Dual Clutch vs. CVT: the debate heats up

Transmission specialists are reporting that sales of CVT transmissions will increase in the U.S. and Japan while dual-clutch transmissions, also called direct shift gearbox (DSG) transmissions, are taking over Europe. CVT trannies offer better fuel economy gains but have trouble handling the torque of larger engines. DSG transmissions, the development of which has spearheaded by Volkswagen, are cheaper to produce and offer the driver a choice between an automatic mode or a more engaging clutchless shifting mode. DSGs are also lighter and fit easily into spaces engineered for a common manual transmission.

Read on for my personal rant about this debate.

I've driven a Honda Civic Hybrid with a CVT and an Audi TT with a DSG. The fact that these two cars are so different illustrates the point that these two transmissions are suited for two completely different categories of cars. A CVT transmission makes sense for a hybrid or small economy car because of its ability to keep engine speed at its most efficient point. DSG transmissions, however, are suited for larger cars that were designed without compromises. A DSG offers automatic shifting that's smoother than any normal automatic could hope to achieve and a manual mode that allows the driver to perform clutchless shifts faster than a human hand. I see both of these technologies carving out their niches in opposite ends of the market, with CVT transmissions appearing in fuel efficient vehicles and DSG transmissions showing up in luxury and high-end sports cars.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I hate CVT AND DSG. They're all the things I hate without anything I want. I still can't believe Nissan is pushing the CVT so hard. Making it an option is great, but making it the only choice is just plain idiotic! If I want a 6 speed, why on earth can't I have one? Can you imagine how well a 1964 Mustang with ONLY a 4 speed auto option would have sold? It would have been laughed off the market.

DSG is even MORE stupid than CVT to me. CVT can be tuned to keep your car at peak power or torque. Very useful. What's a DSG? It's a jerky manumatic! Yeah it's got clutches...but there's no third pedal so who cares? I can completely understand the point of the CVT: economy and comfort. But the DSG? What's the point? Millisecond-faster shifts? Wow...I sure need that in my street car.

[louiegz]

Well don't get me wrong Doom, I prefer a proper manual over anything, but on paper the DSG seems like the next best thing.

What's a DSG? It's a jerky manumatic!

I think your confused. "The jerky manumatic" would be the SMG. The DSG boasts smoothness because essentially it's two gearboxes. One that does 1st 3rd and 5th gear, and the other that does 2nd 4th and 6th gear. The way that I understand it, it gives constant power to the driveline with smoothness and no delay of gear change, hence, better 0-60 times, if that's your bag,

VW GTI MarkV 0-60 times

Manual 7.1 sec.

DSG 6.8 sec.

and smoother shifs than an automatic. I've never driven one, so I might hate it as much as the CVT Mini I drove, but on paper, it sound like a good idea. I think I rather have an DSG than a CVT or an Auto, but I rather have stick.
Modified by louiegz at 1:02 AM 8/9/2006

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, I had the DSG and SMG confused. It's the SMG that I really hate.

[BadQ45t]

I had some SUV as a rental that was a CVT and it was bizarre. I love my Q, but there is nothing like rowing through the gears on my 84' 300ZX or my 05' X-Terra......I agree, manual is the most direct connection to the car. The CVT is the whole point of the new Maxima commerical Nissan is running, I saw it again tonight. It is some dude that is grunting out the shifts as the car is just slugging up to speed. I hope they offer a 6 speed manual in the Maxima. My buddy bought a 05' last year and called me to complain he didn't have this CVT, I told him his 05' will be a classic with the regular old 5 speed auto.

[TgduMg]

I drove a Bangled BMW 530i sedan during the Susan G. Komen Drive for the cure two years ago, and had a brief ride in a 2004 or 05 Maserati Quattroporte last year. Both cars must have had SMG gearboxes as they were neither sporty or smooth. Just jerky.



Danisiti 1

[HashiriyaS14]

CVT's won't be cool until the driver has control over it.

The "gear ratio" needs to be fully analog and controllable via a thumbwheel on the steering wheel or something like that. I think that's how the MTRC is supposed to work.

[lakeq45]

I forget which company it is, but this will be an option on one of the CVTs coming out. There is supposed to be a mode in which the CVT wil act like a standard automatic (interesting term).

For what it is worth. I dislike CVTs and I drive a Honda Insight. I went out of my way to find one with the 5-speed, because, contrary to popular belief the 5-speed gets better gas mileage. The 5-S Insight is only rated a ULEV where as the CVT is rated a SULEV. At least on the Insight, Honda keeps the engine in its lowest emmission point, not necessarily its highest hp or best mpg point.

I did like the CVT Civic Hybrid, but that engine had more hp to work with. I think in very low hp motors the manual is still the best all around option. Also, the hybrids have a lot more low end torque than a standard small displacement engine which is probably why your mini experence sucked so bad.

[wonS14aero]

I personally perfer to shift my own gears. A conventional auto will be a distant second. But I just don't like the idea of CVT even it is more efficient it just seems like a car with a badly slipping clutch.

[HashiriyaS14]

I forget which company it is, but this will be an option on one of the CVTs coming out. There is supposed to be a mode in which the CVT wil act like a standard automatic (interesting term).

For what it is worth. I dislike CVTs and I drive a Honda Insight. I went out of my way to find one with the 5-speed, because, contrary to popular belief the 5-speed gets better gas mileage. The 5-S Insight is only rated a ULEV where as the CVT is rated a SULEV. At least on the Insight, Honda keeps the engine in its lowest emmission point, not necessarily its highest hp or best mpg point.

I did like the CVT Civic Hybrid, but that engine had more hp to work with. I think in very low hp motors the manual is still the best all around option. Also, the hybrids have a lot more low end torque than a standard small displacement engine which is probably why your mini experence sucked so bad.

I didn't even know that Insights came with CVT's, I thougt they were all 5MT's. Insights are cool, IMO.

[Jesda]

I dont live in Los Angeles, so I love traditional manuals. I want to press the clutch, row the gears, and have a full and lively interaction with the car.

I miss my Maxima.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Insights are cool, IMO.

I'd love to gut an Insight of it's electric extras and take advantage of it's all-aluminum frame to build the baddest CRX ever made.

The "gear ratio" needs to be fully analog and controllable via a thumbwheel on the steering wheel or something like that.

That would ROCK. Have boat-throttle style lever in place of the shifter. Back is lower, front is higher. Add that to a real clutch and you've basically got an über-manual.