CVT Shot -'08 Altima 2.5SL

[ssjones]

Vehicle: 2008 Altima 2.5SL w/CVTMileage: 60,600 milesPurchased: Dec '07

My car started making a whine last week. The whine was barely discernible and seemed to be related to vehicle speed. The whine was heard at speed with the car in neutral. My tires were worn (OEM Continentals), so Friday, I put on a new set of four and did a wheel alignment. The rear was really out, causing some unusual wear. The whine persisted. Monday, I took the car to my local dealer (not my purchasing dealer). They suspected a bad wheel bearing/hub.

The dealer (Hamilton, Hagerstown MD) called yesterday and reported my transmission needed to be replaced as they do not repair CVT transmission's. They also advised Nissan refussed to do this under warranty because I was 600 miles beyond the 60k mark. They suggested calling my purchasing dealer (Fitzgerald, Chambersburg PA). That service manager said he couldn't do any more than the Hagerstown dealer and suggested I call Nissan Help and the Consumer Protection department.

When dropping the car off at Hamilton, I asked for them to record the CVT fluid degradation number. They forgot to do this and had to call me back after running on the Consult again. The number was 1,162, which is far less than the 210,000 required to change. I had purchased 6 quarts of CVT fluid and had planned to drain/fill over the weekend, as a precaution (cheap insurance, well $90 anyway). Hamilton also advised me there was a $91 charge to analyze the problem.

I called the Corporate Consumer Protection division and gave my story to a phone op. Nissan is supposed to call me by end of the day.

I'd appreciate the advice or comment from any Nissan tech on board here.

[marlin29311]

The dealer is right about not being able to repair the CVT - this has to be done at a factory, so if it is the CVT that is going they will need to replace it.

Have you taken your car to another dealer to have them look at it? I also have to note that driving and then throwing your car into neutral is terrible practice for both a CVT and an A/T (but ceritnaly for a CVT since putting the car in neutral at crusing speeds can mess with the belt expanding/contracting).

Have you followed the service schedules?

Did you put CVT fluid into the car yet? What kind did you use?

[ssjones]

Thanks for the reply.

No, it is still at the service dealer in MD. The purchasing dealer in PA said there was no use bringing/towing it up there because he would do the same. He didn't volunteer to call Nissan for me but gave me the toll free number.

I only did the neutral thing twice to see if the noise changed, won't do that again.

To date, I have done the service which only consisted of 10 oil/filter changes and a new airfilter (K&N).

I have not touched the CVT fluid. The shop manual doesn't call for a change until the Consult reflects the number greater than 210,000. I did buy 7 qts of Nissan CVT fluid and had planned to drain/refill the fluid this weekend. I was planning on doing this every 60k. I typically keep cars pretty close to 300k, which I'll hit in five years.

My local Amco says they have worked on CVT trannies and would like to look at the car. They asked how the dealer knows the transmission is shot. I don't know that answer, there are no check engine lights (or pending) on the OBD II. My guess is they just heard the noise and said replace. They didn't even pull the CVT fluid degradation number and only did so at my request.

The dealer is right about not being able to repair the CVT - this has to be done at a factory, so if it is the CVT that is going they will need to replace it.

Have you taken your car to another dealer to have them look at it? I also have to note that driving and then throwing your car into neutral is terrible practice for both a CVT and an A/T (but ceritnaly for a CVT since putting the car in neutral at crusing speeds can mess with the belt expanding/contracting).

Have you followed the service schedules?

Did you put CVT fluid into the car yet? What kind did you use?

[Q45tech]

Since you keep cars 300k, my last choice would be a CVT since they were designed to improve MPG not to increase durability. No way could I envision a CVT outlasting a 4-5AT.

[ssjones]

That was my worry when I bought the car. But, in web searching, I found several 3.5L CVT failures but didn't find one 2.5L mention. Currently, my mileage is 28.5 mpg on the life of the vehicle, which seems to be lower than the 6 speed owners on the various Altima forums and below my 32.5 mpg average of my '03 Accord (4 cyl/Auto) with the same drive cycles. I also required a timing chain vs. belt, so that limited my choices. I passed on the new Accord because the trunk was a little too small, regretting decision now.

Since you keep cars 300k, my last choice would be a CVT since they were designed to improve MPG not to increase durability. No way could I envision a CVT outlasting a 4-5AT.

[ssjones]

Well, Nissan will cover the transmision cost ($4,100) and I'm paying the labor, approximately $800. While I'm fortunate and appreciative on one hand, I can't believe Nissan is having conversations with customers that basically amount to:

"hello customer, that noise in your transmission means it is shot. We don't any repairs to a CVT transmission, but rather at a cost to you, replace it. That will be $5,000 please (works out to about 23% of the vehicle cost)".

I say good luck to Nissan with that strategy in this economy.

Now, will I have the same result next year after another 60,000 miles? I guess there is no guarantee there either. I'll probably be getting rid of this vehicle in another year. I thought the CVT was a gamble, but liked the car so much I overlooked my common sense.

I'll post a follow-up when the work is done next week.

That was my worry when I bought the car. But, in web searching, I found several 3.5L CVT failures but didn't find one 2.5L mention. Currently, my mileage is 28.5 mpg on the life of the vehicle, which seems to be lower than the 6 speed owners on the various Altima forums and below my 32.5 mpg average of my '03 Accord (4 cyl/Auto) with the same drive cycles. I also required a timing chain vs. belt, so that limited my choices. I passed on the new Accord because the trunk was a little too small, regretting decision now.

[CPS]

Most Nissan dealers do not have the capability to rebuild a transmission, whether it be training, availability of tools, or whatever. That is why they don't mess with them. Also, it is far more cost effective to replace the transmission than to tear into it and try to rebuild it with a faster turnaround time and no chance of missing something and having to redo the job.

I don't know how things work in the part of the country you are in, but there is nobody anywhere near here that will even touch a CVT other than a drain and fill. If you have local shops that have worked on them, that may be an option for you in the future, IF they have successfully repaired them. The dealership I work for has never ordered an internal part for a CVT for any shop. Ever. As a matter of fact, the Nissan Master Technician and I are the only two people in the area that have even opened up a CVT. There's a whole lot of electronic and mechanical parts in there, and I am very surprised that anybody has attempted a repair on one without prior knowledge of their assembly and schematics as to how they operate.

[ssjones]

... If you have local shops that have worked on them, that may be an option for you in the future, IF they have successfully repaired them.

My local Amoco was recommended by a friend who owns an independant service station. I called and spoke to the owner. He has succesfully opened and repaired the Nissan CVT and said he'd love to look at it and find out why it is "shot" as the dealer said. (has no driability issues)

I'll keep him in mind for future use. As you say, it might be more cost effective to get one of those salvage yard CVT's with 10k or less on them. They'd probably go $2k with shipping.

I had not asked yet what kind of warranty will come with this replacement CVT from the dealer - any idea?

[CPS]

If it is a new part number (without an "re" at the end of it) it would be covered under the 12 month/12,000 mile parts warranty, under normal circumstances. However, in this instance, Nissan is paying for the part under the warranty on the powertrain, which is only covered 5 years/ 60,000 miles. You are past that, so they are doing it in good faith, which they label as GRT. In all actuality, you are getting a brand new transmission but it will have no warranty on it. This is something you will need to discuss further with the repairing dealer and the person in charge of their warranty filing to get further information from Nissan.

If AAMCO is successfully repairing these transmissions, I would be interested to know what they are determining to be the failed part, because to my knowledge, you cannot buy the CVT belt or cone package as a separate part. It sounds to me like they must be re-bearing the carrier on the output side of the transmission. Pinion and carrier bearings are known for noise on RWD cars and trucks as mileage increases or lack of fluid changes causes excessive wear on them.

If it is a bearing failure, it would still make more sense for Nissan to just replace the entire transmission in warranty situations. By the time you pay labor for removal, tear down, inspection, parts, labor on part installation, reassembly, all new fluid, reinstallation, plus a rental car for all of those days, you would probably be close to the same amount of money as a new transmission would cost. If not, it would be an amount close enough to still justify entire replacement as a convenience to the customer. This way the customer has a brand new transmission instead of an xxxxx mile transmission with just new bearings in it.

[ssjones]

Thanks CPS, very helpful and interesting information. I may inquire about trading the car for a 6-speed manual 2.5 Altima. I don't know if another CVT can be trusted, particularly if it comes with no warranty.

If it is a new part number (without an "re" at the end of it) it would be covered under the 12 month/12,000 mile parts warranty, under normal circumstances. However, in this instance, Nissan is paying for the part under the warranty on the powertrain, which is only covered 5 years/ 60,000 miles. You are past that, so they are doing it in good faith, which they label as GRT. In all actuality, you are getting a brand new transmission but it will have no warranty on it. This is something you will need to discuss further with the repairing dealer and the person in charge of their warranty filing to get further information from Nissan.

If AAMCO is successfully repairing these transmissions, I would be interested to know what they are determining to be the failed part, because to my knowledge, you cannot buy the CVT belt or cone package as a separate part. It sounds to me like they must be re-bearing the carrier on the output side of the transmission. Pinion and carrier bearings are known for noise on RWD cars and trucks as mileage increases or lack of fluid changes causes excessive wear on them.

If it is a bearing failure, it would still make more sense for Nissan to just replace the entire transmission in warranty situations. By the time you pay labor for removal, tear down, inspection, parts, labor on part installation, reassembly, all new fluid, reinstallation, plus a rental car for all of those days, you would probably be close to the same amount of money as a new transmission would cost. If not, it would be an amount close enough to still justify entire replacement as a convenience to the customer. This way the customer has a brand new transmission instead of an xxxxx mile transmission with just new bearings in it.

[SteveTheTech]

CPS your contribution in this thread is enlightening and very informative. Coming from Infiniti I have very limited dealings with CVTs other than what I have read in the manuals and discussed with the Nissan techs.

The CVT is a very rudimentary setup there are fewer parts inside than the AT models used to have and theoretically less wearable parts. Component failure is another issue, the new model CVTs are usually pretty decent and have come a long way since their inception with Nissan in late 02.

Tearing into a CVT may be easy put putting it back together is another story. There is a tool that is required to preload the carrier bearings and provide torsion on the internal springs. Again I agree with CPS though the individual components are not available and if they are replacing something it is not factory designed.

At least you got the part warrantied. It could just have easily happened with the Accord and an AT, or any other model.

[ssjones]

Well, picked up the car today. $749 to install the new transmission, which does have a 12k/12 month warranty. Still waiting for corporate Nissan to make their decision. I spoke to that rep today and also asked them to consider buying the car back from me, and selling me an '09 2.5/6 speed. Supposed to get back to me on Friday.

[CPS]

That's not a bad deal on the labor. Labor rates in my part of the country are around $90 an hour, which means they charged you about 8.5 hours. 8-10 is normal for most transmission swapouts depending on the shop.

[ssjones]

Yes, plus they put on a new battery cable at no charge. I'm very pleased with service at the dealer. I'm certain that was a discounted rate. They originally said the charge to diagnose my problem was $91 (when it was not partially covered by warranty). That charge was not mentioned, so I guess they put it on Nissan corporate.I'm waiting to hear Nissan's final decision and possibly buying my car back (and buying a 6 s-speed Altima)

That's not a bad deal on the labor. Labor rates in my part of the country are around $90 an hour, which means they charged you about 8.5 hours. 8-10 is normal for most transmission swapouts depending on the shop.

[ssjones]

Nissan Customer Service called yesterday. They are reviewing my case at the next level and that takes about a week. So, should get a call by next Friday.

Gave up on getting them to buy back the car - discovered you cannot get the 6-speed with the 2.5SL option, only the 3.5 or base S.

On a positive note, the repairing dealership (Hamilton Nissan, Hagerstown MD) not only washed the filthy car but detailed the engine bay. You can imagine how filthy it was at 60k. Looks new inside now!

[ssjones]

Victory is mine!

On Monday I received a call from the Customer Protection Department (Canada) telling me they reviewed my case again and decided I could not be given any further reimbursement for the labor. I asked for a supervisor and received a call from that individual on Tuesday. She listened to my story and promised to have someone from the "Executive Team" in TN return my call by Friday.

Someone on the "Nissan Executive Team" called me this afternoon, from HQ in Tennesee and told me the team reviewed my problem and decided since the age of the transmission was well within their time warranty, they would reimburse me for the labor. I faxed in my receipts, etc. this evening.

I'm certainly pleased with that outcome and guess as usual, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I'm glad I listened to the dealer service advisor who said not to let up.

[ssjones]

It took 4-5 more calls to Nissan, but the refund check finally arrived on Saturday.

[dfinch1420]

Just wanted to add my recent experience with my '08 Altima 2.5SEL .

We brought it in Thursday (4/30) because of the same reported "whine". To tell you the truth, I haven't liked the "jump" the car seemed to have when I accelerated, but I just chalked it up to my lack of drive time with the car (we got it in NOV '08). But Nissan's report states "Failed Differential Bearings were the cause of the Noise and CVT Assembly needs to be replaced".

Nissan did replace the transmission but it makes you wonder how a transmission goes after 7 months.

[ssjones]

I wonder how many failures they've had with these 2.5 CVT cars?My new transmission is yielding better gas mileage and my car was also jerky in acceleration at times. I realized a 32.4 mpg tank in the past two days, that never happened

Just wanted to add my recent experience with my '08 Altima 2.5SEL .

We brought it in Thursday (4/30) because of the same reported "whine". To tell you the truth, I haven't liked the "jump" the car seemed to have when I accelerated, but I just chalked it up to my lack of drive time with the car (we got it in NOV '08). But Nissan's report states "Failed Differential Bearings were the cause of the Noise and CVT Assembly needs to be replaced".

Nissan did replace the transmission but it makes you wonder how a transmission goes after 7 months.

[CPS]

We've replaced maybe a half dozen CVT's in sedans and coupes since they came out. We run about 20 2007 and up sedans and coupes through the shop every week for various things (oil changes, recalls, PM), so that's a low incidence of major repair. It is definitely not a recurring issue.

[1125Altima3.5]

Just saw this thread and wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I have an 08 3.5SE Sedan and I am having my transmission replaced due to the CVT low-speed rattle/whine/burning smell. Car is three months old and has 5k miles on it.

Will let everyone know what the cause of failure is. I'm guessing it's going to be a related to the output side of the transmission as noted in another post.

Someone from Nissan needs to get over to JATCO and start cracking skulls...

[peterhdk]

Hi all, currently have my 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0 in the shop due to "failed bearings" in the CVT. The car has 30,000 miles on it. The thing that is really throwing me off is that it was just in a week before for its 2 year/30k maintenance and they drained and filled the transmission. Coincidence? I'd really like to know to help determine whether I can expect this to happen in another 30k right when my warranty expires.

Can doing something like putting the wrong fluid in cause bearing failure?