CVT Reliability???

[IBx1]

Posting here too, since the Muranos test the limits of automotive CVT technology:

Quote »Hey everyone, I found this website while looking for info about Nissan's Xtronic CVT. I need honest, unbiased(try hard) answers.We have a 2000 Saturn SL2 with 168,000 on the clock, and things feel like it may not be with us for much longer. It'll probably see 200,000 but not much further. I'm the car shopper of the house, so I'm looking at a small car for our next one since I'm gonna be out of the picture and up at college.

We also have a 2009 Subaru Forester, and there's a reason why. We HAD a 2003 Saturn VUE with the CVT transmission, and that's why I'm here asking you guys about the reliability. The CVT in the VUE went on us at about 76,000 miles and the car was in the shop for an entire month. It went, AGAIN, on us at 148,000, and when our lowest quote was $5,300 to replace, we made a down payment on an AWD car instead of ekeing out another 40,000 miles of that car, which had a few other underlying problems anyway. It sucks though because everything else on the car works fine, just the transmission is gone.

We have nightmares about CVT's because of this experience.

Our car cycle works like this: dad gets the new car, then when it's time for the next new car in usually 5 years, mom gets that car and dad gets the next new one. My dad commutes to NYC and back every day, putting 25,000 miles A YEAR on our cars.

Our new car cycle will be different since our new cars will be so close to each other in age; mom will take the Forester since it's worse on gas(26 miles per gallon, very good but not as good as what we're looking at for the next one) for her short commute about 5 miles north and dad will have the new small car, unless it's bad weather like heavy rain or snow in which case he'll take the AWD Forester. Both cars will have to be durable, which we know the Forester is.

Now, I know everything about how a belt and toroidal CVT works, and I know the flaws. However, Nissan uses the same CVT in the Murano(250something horse, AWD, heavy car) as they do in their other cars, and it's their hottest-selling model according to my local dealer. If so many people had them and they all had CVT problems, so many people would be back with their cars and furious.

I'm looking at a Cube for us. Same transmission, with half the horsepower, much less weight, and half the drive wheels. We're just stuck on the CVT nightmares. So tell me, how are all your CVT's holding up? What's the cost of doing regular fluid changes? Are they sealed units so that we can't check the fluid levels ourselves? What's the most miles you've ever put on your CVT, how hard do you drive it, all those questions.

And yeah, have any of you had to replace your CVT? Thanks for the help in advance, and thanks for reading this whole discussion.[/quote]

[marlin29311]

I just put this in your other thread...

- MOD's - I would move this over to General chat, or possibly split it to the subforums, as this deals with many of the nissan vehicles.

Overall, the new CVT's (2007+) have undergone major design changes since the initial 2003 batches (which were plaguing murano owners and such...) and are much much much more reliable, and as of so far, there haven't been many problems (and all the ones that did happen were replaced under warranty by Nissan - not a rebuild, replaced.)

From what I've come to see, the redesign has made significant improvements and have made the CVT more reliable than previously - Nissan targeted having these things stick around for 200k miles (though no one is quite there yet...)

Fluid changes are the biggest pain though - you cannot access the transmission dipstick yourself, as there is a lock on it that has to be opened by a Nissan tech (though you could brake it and void your warranty...lol) - fluid changes are in the hundred's, simply because the NS-2 fluid that Nissan uses is proprietery and costs a hefty sum per quart - I believe for my 3.5 Altima, the chage is around $400....but the NS-2 fluid was designed to withstand 90k miles (my dad's company helped to design the fluid), and Nissan has a diagnostic tool that can determine the life of the fluid in the transmission as well, so you don't necessarily have to do a fluid swap every 30k...

Overall, the CVT has come a long way, and is certianly doing quite well for Nissan at this point - I don't think that they would put a failing transmission into almost all of their cars if they thought it was going to break!

[nafddur]

Of course we can check the fluid level in our CVT's!! The CVT dipstick couldn't be any more accessible - it's right in front of you when you pop the hood. There IS a small tab that needs to be pressed in, however, to unlock and remove the dipstick from the CVT fluid charging pipe. But this is a very simple procedure.

I've checked my CVT fluid level a couple of times since I've owned the car (4 1/2 years). The `lock' is a little tab on the top of the dipstick you have to depress so you can pull the dipstick out. Anyone who needs a Nissan mechanic to do this shouldn't be attempting any maintenance jobs in the first place.
Modified by nafddur at 7:57 PM 6/25/2009

[kerrton]

Nissan's product including the CVT is consistently rated "above average" by those such as Edmonds, Consumer Reports etc.. I drive a Nissan Rogue (by the way, it sounds like this might be the perfect vehicle for you, check it out), and the best resource for real reliability stats from real owners is the TrueDelta survey site, which is stickied at the top of this forum. All you have to do is sign up and you get reliability info for all vehicles that participate, including the Murano, and detailed information of what parts failed and when for all repair visits. The direct link is: zerothread/214838

This real world database agrees that the Murano quality is "above average". And as was stated, you can't compare the current CVT models to the first generations of a few years ago as the designs have been vastly improved. The only problem that I personally have with the CVT is that if I have problems after warranty I can't get a re-build, currently the only option is a complete replacement which accounts for the high cost. I'm hoping this will change within the next couple years if for no other reason than peace of mind.

[IBx1]

Haha, I got Marlin telling me there's a lock, and this other guy telling me it's right there and easily accessible.

We won't get a Rogue because we already have an AWD SUV. We're looking at the cube because of the low price point; we've decided that $16,000 is our negotiating point for whichever car we wind up getting. That fits a Cube S, which has plenty of features, quite fine.

On KBB, I saw plenty of reviews of the Murano from '04-'06 saying that they have horrible transmissions that have to be completely replaced out of pocket at ridiculously low mileage points. I'm hoping to find out more about this new design though. I figure if the new one can handle Murano duty, it'll have no problem lasting twice as long in something like the cube.
Modified by IBx1 at 7:27 PM 6/25/2009

[kerrton]

Well the CVT in the Murano is not the same model as the one in the Cube of course, it is much heavier duty to handle the all the torque and horsepower. The other thing I'd point out is that Nissan sells millions of CVT vehicles in Japan and Europe, and has been doing so for many years. The CVT failures that you read about are very dramatic because it requires replacement, but they're very uncommon and it has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's a CVT. All car manufacturers have transmission failures, and when it happens people don't say "conventional transmissions are terrible, I'll never buy one again", it isn't the type of transmission that caused the failure, it is just a fact of life that nothing is 100% and parts fail. I will agree with you that it sucks that the CVT currently can't be rebuilt or serviced, but has to be replaced. Also, there are thousands of people who reporting extremely high mileage on their CVT's, well over 200,000 miles but we tend to ignore these reports and just focus on the negatives.

Again, if you're thinking about a Nissan, look at the Rogue, I think this is the best value by far as you get tons of options and excellent resale value for a very reasonable sticker price - it gets amazing mileage, is very comfortable, looks SWEET, has great utility, and because it's a crossover there will be high demand at resale time when you decide to get rid of it. I've had mine for almost 2 years and it is an amazing vehicle, check it out online and see what you think.

[nafddur]

All car manufacturers have transmission failures, and when it happens people don't say "conventional transmissions are terrible, I'll never buy one again", it isn't the type of transmission that caused the failure, it is just a fact of life that nothing is 100% and parts fail.

Good point, kerr.

If this was the case, Dodge/Chrysler mini vans would have been extinct MANY years ago. And despite the sucky transmissions those pieces of crap are well known for, I don't think a recall for those was ever issued. Of course, this could very well be just one of the reasons why Chrysler is now bankrupt.

[IBx1]

kerrton, you bring up a good point about nothing being 100%. I'm sure that if the transmission gets its regular routine servicing it'll last long since it's simple and doesn't handle much power. I'm still a bit questionable because of my experience, which is reasonable, and I'd like to see how Nissan's '07+ CVT designs are holding up. If the transmission used in the Murano is different than those in, say, an Altima, Sentra, or Versa, then I'll have to post in that forum. I just assumed it was the same unit

Again, we are buying a small car, not something like a Rogue.

[zdon]

Good point, kerr.

If this was the case, Dodge/Chrysler mini vans would have been extinct MANY years ago. And despite the suck transmissions those pieces of crap are well known for, I don't think a recall for those was ever issued. Of course, this could very well be just one of the reasons why Chrysler is now bankrupt.

[kerrton]

I believe the designs are very simliar, but of course it wouldn't be the identical part as these are very different vehicles in terms of engine size, torque, horse power. The CVT in the Murano is much larger than the one in the Cube for obvious reasons, but the design and materials is most likely the same or very close, and so I'd assume similar reliability. If anything the Cube may be more reliable because of the much lower power output from the engine vs. that of the Murano.

It's definately something to consider though, if you buy a conventional transmission and it craps out, at least you'll probably have the option to rebuild it. If the Nissan CVT dies, you have to buy a whole new transmission.
Modified by kerrton at 12:12 PM 6/29/2009

[nafddur]

If anything the Cube may be more reliable because of the much lower power output from the engine vs. that of the Murano.

More importantly, people buying Cubes are likely going to be more aware of the type of car they are purchasing, and will treat it appropriately. Lots of people buying Mo's think they are getting a heavy duty SUV, when they are really getting a modified Altima.

[whatmorecanyousay]

The following is a post from the CVT Rogue fourm. It is my posting from 10 min ago.

I was a happy camper with my new (popop drives a cool car) with AWD and a CVT. A quiet and car like ride. No Noise Until the story follows:

My Recent experience was similar to those posted. I detected the noise at slower speeds and coming to a stop at 16k Miles. I complained to my wife because I knew all the "No" noises of the car and was happy. Six hours latter the Engine light went on. I took the car to the dealer and gave a discription like this: On slower speeds at about 12-20 mph while turning or pulling up to a stop sign I was hearing a rattle or scraping and thought at the time it was a suspension problem. Oh and the Light went on.The result: The dealer plugged the car in and found some messages. They called Nissan. Then took the car for a test ride in a parking lot. Bad Trans and they had 2 in the same week. Transmission Replaced BUT NOW I have a differential piched noise that is distraction at 25 to 30 mph an even worse at 60 to 65 mph to the point where the tone has risen to a music tone loud level and distorts music listening. It happens under load and seems to go somewhat quiet downhill. This is NOT acceptable, the humm sounds like a very bad differential I once had in one of my Lincolns.

I took the car back and issued a complaint and the mechanic admitted to hearing the same thing in my car only. NOT the other he replaced in the same week in an AWD 2008 same model same mechanic. They advised me to take the car on a trip East instead of my normal full sized road car to see if the issue resoves itself or lessens. NO it seems worse after 599 miles and I am not happy sounding like a truck with the Whine low and HighI opened the widows and it is even worse than I thought.

Question: If the tran was set wrong or off the bubble to the rear drive could this cause a whine at different frequencies and speeds? Was it a bad install of a new trans? He told me it took him 11 hrs alone and he got help on the other car and finished in 7 and Nissan only gives 6 hrs labor.He was not a happy camper. Is the installation to precise to be done in the field. Was my car the practice unit and the other that did not whine the expert install?

I was a very happy Nissan Rogue owner until 2 weeks ago. Told everyone how smooth and quiet the unit ran. How good it looked and sounded. How it was a good light utility car for retired person wanting to take small garden plants from the garden center and transport them home without having to stoop and unload items. I had people my age thinking that the car would make them look like a cool grandpop because my grandchildren think the car is realy cool even more so than our luxury sedan.

Any sugguestions would be helpfull.

whatmorecanyousay

[IBx1]

I'm seeing mixed opinions on the CVT. Seems like they're more or less for light driving under a lease period, not commuting through NYC every day with an owner. I still like the cube but I don't think we'll be buying one. Thanks guys.

Keep posting, btw! This could be a very helpful thread for others in my situation. I'd like to see the most miles extracted from one of the '07+ CVT's so far.

[kerrton]

Go to ANY other forum for ANY other vehicle and you're guaranteed to get mixed reviews on the conventional automatic transmission too, so following this logic I guess you're not buying a new car (I'm just following your logic).

If you want to see stories about durable CVT's, and ones that are pushed to their limit and still run forever, go to the Altima forum, and also the Maxima to certain degree. Those guys abuse the CVT and there are no problems at all with CVT failures or strange noises etc..

Aside from that, I think you're probably just trying to error on the side of caution, even if the evidence doesn't support it. Good luck with whatever you buy.

[Penny's Dad]

I have an '06 with 45,000 K on it. I have had no issues KOW. I had 2001 Acura 3.2 TL whose 5 speed went out at 32K! I understood that many Honda and Acura 5 speeds failed to the point where Honda extended the warranty.

My point is that this never showed up in any of the reliability surveys that I have seen on the Acura (consumer reports gave the transmissions a half red circle!). It seems perception is sometimes more important than reality.