customer loyalty

[silberma]

In the latest auto maker ranking Infinity was shown to have the lowest customer loyalty of all . About 25% of buyers of infinity will buy again. I am really surprised because I very much like my 2015 70QL. Perhaps the higher prices for I infinity have something to do with it in terms of value for your money.

PS I consider my 2012 Nissan Maxima a great value and would buy again. Not sure the 70QL is worth $60K.

[Ilya]

Not worth 60K? 60K is a BARGAIN for this class of car. I bought my 2007 M35 over a 7-series and an older LS-series. Had more tech, more standard features, and looked just as good.

The L version of the new Q70, IMO, competes more with the 7-series than it does with the 5-series. 60k is a bargain. Then again, I'll never buy ANY luxury car brand new. You can get them with 30kmi (lease turn in) for half the price. I prefer someone else to take the hit.

[silberma]

IlyaKol,

Buying a used car always makes more economic sense than buying new. I bought new because I was looking for safety features that were not available on older models.
I traded a 2012 BMW 535i for the new infinity rather than a new BMW because I thought it was a better value than the BMW, more reliable and less expensive to maintain. However, you still do not explain the customer loyalty issue.
Perhaps the customer loyalty issue is driven by other models from Infinity that I would never buy like the Q50 and the QX series which have stiff completion from other auto makers.

[Debonair]

Nissan/Infiniti do not benefit from the reliability hype that Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus do. This seems to lead to larger depreciation which can drive buyers away from the brand when it comes time to buy new.

I think as people who choose and/or can afford new cars get older they probably look for more plush rides then Infiniti's sportier models offer.

[Larz]

I learned my lesson after spending nearly $90k on a new Escalade ESV Platinum and having a drunk truck driver total it soon after. My GAP insurance and my huge down payment kept me from owing the bank after the numbers were crunched, but I was left with no car, no sign of the huge cash I dropped when I bought it, and had to start all over again at zero. That is when I became an Infiniti owner. I will never buy a new car at any price, or buy any used car that was the first year for that model. Best to let others take that risk.
As for the surveys, it depends on who is doing the survey. I stopped paying any attention to Consumer Reports a long time ago as I rarely ever agree with the reports and the data they claim. I own lots of things they diss and I couldn't disagree more with their reviews. I'm not saying their data is false, I'm just saying the brands they poop on have all done fine by me.
Here are some other reviews I found:

Cars . com 2012 Customer retention: 46% (avge for all 2012 makes: 50%) Hyundai rated highest at 64%

J D Power: 2012 models: 4 out of 5 for quality, 4 out of 5 performance and design, 3 out of 5 dependability & customer service
As of Nov 2014, Infiniti ranked 2nd highest of all premium brands for customer satisfaction.

I agree with Ilya. You cannot beat Infiniti for what you get Vs what they cost. And since Infinit has no pedigree or racing heritage, and is not a 50-year old company in the states, the resale value is low while the car itself retains the high quality and dependability. A used Infiniti beats the living crap out of other luxury / premium brands - new or used.
My only complaint is that Inifniti is not at the forefront of tech options available on other premium brands, but if they did, they would also cost as much as other premium brands. OH, and for the love all that is good and pure ... CAN WE HAVE A PANORAMIC ROOF PLEASE?

[InfinitiAce]

Keep in mind that 30 percent of Infiniti sales come from the Q50 and another 25 percent come from the QX60. The Q50 has had quite a few problems, mainly with the infotainment system. Consumer Reports now says that it is the least reliable luxury car. That is not good.

The QX60 is a great car, but it is rather dull. I can't see many owners getting excited about it.

Many of the other Infinitis are starting to get pretty dated.

Only 6 percent of Infiniti sales come from the Q70. They usually only sell about 10,000 a year.

[Ilya]

I think brand loyalty is easy to earn. I got my first Nissan Maxima (97 GXE) in like 2006, then a 99 SE in like 2007. By 2010, I got my first Infiniti and in 2014 I got my second. I'm a Nissan fan through and through now. Some people just want to keep up with the jones' so to speak and might jump ship to a German auto because that's what all their friends are driving. Case in point most of my slavic male friends (and even female). Being from Ukraine/Russian/Poland, etc. everyone gets an Audio or a BMW. I'm one of the few with a higher end Japanese car.

[Larz]

I reckon that name recognition plays an important part in all of this. For years in this country, Cadillac was THE standard. Lincolns were a very close second. If you drove one, you were automatically seen as successful, and you had 'arrived". In the UK, it was Mercedes and BMW. If you had really arrived, it was a Rolls or Bentley. All of these names had been around for years. All had a long history, a racing pedigree, and were a symbol of status. Although I'm sure many people still buy these brands because they are true believers, many new owners buy them because of the perceived status that comes with them.
Infiniti is too new and too small to even come close to these brands. In the UK, Infiniti was relatively unknown for years ago it still is not all that popular aside from the G series. If it weren't for the diesel version of the M (M30d), BMW would have captured most of the Infinti buyers in the UK. In fact, in Germany you really have to search high and low to find an M or Q. Infiniti is more popular in the states, but is absolutely no competition for the euro cars when it comes to brand recognition, heritage, pedigree, etc. Infiniti does not come with any perceived status. I absolutely love my Infiniti and would not trade it for any Euro or US car, but it is still just a 'nice' car, not a status symbol, and only those of us who actually live with one really know just how good these cars are. Although Infiniti likes to say they are going after Mercedes and BMW, and Lexus, It will be years before Infiniti reaches Lexus in popularity and years more before you will hear BMW or Mercedes mention Infniti as 'competitior'.

[Ilya]

Infiniti is building racing pedigree, at least from a marketing standpoint. They are big sponsors of a Formula 1 racing team (the one Sebastan Vettel drove for and the one that Ricardo now drives for). Red Bull F1 team I think? As with anything, it takes years of marketing, etc. to get to a lofty status.

[Larz]

Exactly. Infiniti are on the right track in many ways. There is no shortcut and Infiniti are behind because the others (BMW,Merc,Audi, Jag) have so many more years of history, but Infiniti will get there. Sebastian and Formula ! was a great idea especially for Europe. In Germany, where everyone is used to the tight, semi-rough sports sedans, Inifniti is seen as too soft and comfy to be considered as competiton. It is considered a touring car or a chaufer sedan.
The German perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euG5G0IM5IM
The UK perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tu5R3tN7tI ( Fetucini laffs everytime I imitate Simon or Jeremy Clarkson while driving about with guests in the car.)
The M30dS which I would LOVE to have:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyMBWL6l9gM

[Mjkkb2]

Being from Ukraine/Russian/Poland, etc. everyone gets an Audio or a BMW. I'm one of the few with a higher end Japanese car.

...make me the other of the few. The above statement is so true...

[silberma]

Larz,

You say "My only complaint is that Inifniti is not at the forefront of tech options available on other premium brands, but if they did, they would also cost as much as other premium brands."

Obviously you are not up to speed on the technology package that the 70Q has. My car has every conceivable safety item available. The car is equipped with all around cameras and radar and sonar detectors. This provides blind spot detection and avoidance, lane departure detection and avoidance, automatic braking in forward and reverse, automatic cruise control, 360 degree camera view.

This is the reason I chose the car because it was a better value than the BMW 535i that I traded in.

[Ilya]

I don't think tech is an issue. In fact, I think the tech that is included in the car standard is far more comprehensive than the other brands. In BMW's, you have to pay for all that crap and it's like Verizon, they nickle and dime you for it.

I wish the Top Gear boys would test drive an M56s. They've driven some 'executive saloons' that had balls, why not an Infiniti? I've love to see a video of that.

[reggiebrown40]

The OP calls his car an "Infinity 70QL" -- the irony.

Infiniti* has an identity problem, plain and simple. They don't know what they want to do as a company. They've already built the cars that can propel them into the future, Essence and Eau Rogue, but they never put them into production. Can't build a loyalty base without customers. Can't get customers without luring them away from other manufacturers. I don't see Infiniti building anything I want right now, and I think that's the consensus. I'll stick with my M56 for now but I'll be exploring other options when the time is right.

R.

[Larz]

Larz,

You say "My only complaint is that Inifniti is not at the forefront of tech options available on other premium brands, but if they did, they would also cost as much as other premium brands."

Obviously you are not up to speed on the technology package that the 70Q has. My car has every conceivable safety item available. The car is equipped with all around cameras and radar and sonar detectors. This provides blind spot detection and avoidance, lane departure detection and avoidance, automatic braking in forward and reverse, automatic cruise control, 360 degree camera view.

This is the reason I chose the car because it was a better value than the BMW 535i that I traded in.

The features I was referring to are as follows: The euro brand premium saloons have drowzy driver sensors, WiFi hot spots, more power connections in more places, air-controlled suspension or magnetic controlled suspension, and 8-speed gear boxes. As for comfort, the rear seats have temp, video, massage, recline, side shades, and panoramic roofs. And for years now, their front NAV screen is dual-faced so the passenger can watch a video whilst the driver only sees the NAV or status screens. They also have near zero body roll, and lots more grip making them more fun to drive.

*** BTW, my M35 has rear sunshade, rear seat controls for radio, air/con, etc, rear heated and reclining seats, and surround sound theater with rear screen and the head rests tilt to support your head for a nap. That isn't even available on the Q70 or the Q70L, The Q70 has ... cup holders and a shallow storage bin. My 09 also has 'active lane avoidance' as well as the annoying beep that is standard in that year.

I'm not saying the Q70 is lacking tech, just not up to par with others and I'm saying if it were on the cutting edge, it would not be the great value it is today, and I think that is a fair trade off. In fact when my 07 was totaled, I was literally making arrangements with my bank for a cashier's check to the Jag dealer when my mate at CarMax alerted me to an unbelievable deal on my current M just about half the price of the 2011 Jag XJ-L that was nearly a done deal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxvTUJ7VmJ0

I mean to keep this M for a long time, and I hope that when it comes time to change, the current model offered by Infiniti will have evolved to come closer, or meet the premium saloons at that time. For now, though, you cannot beat the Q70 for value because to match the standard amenities and tech, you have to pay lots extra on any Mercedes, BMW, or Audi.

[M37xfan]

My loyalty is based off my prior experience with Nissan products. Leased an '05 Maxima and owned an '09 Maxima. Both vehicles only seen the inside of the dealership except for routine maintenance and/or very minor repairs. Loved the reliability of both vehicles.

For me, I am not a big fan of a lot of "Tech" features although I do like Navigation, and a nice sound system. At this price point I am more concerned about build quality, performance, reliability. Don't get me wrong, I do believe at a certain price point some features should be standard but as more Tech and luxury options become standard it will drive up the price of the car.

[Ilya]

Same here...I had two Maximas (97 GXE and 99 SE - the first car I truly babied and modded) followed by two M's (07 M35x which had 100kmi problem free miles and my current 11 M56x).

[dmclone]

Here is my take on the luxury market.

Acura-I've owned 8 Honda/Acura products in my life and think they a generally great vehicles. My wife drives a 2013 RDX and it's been a good little vehicle. With that said, outside of their SUV's, Acura has turned into a complete failure with their current car models. The ILX, TLX, and RLX are the worst in class IMO. All boring and nothing like the great cars they produced back in the 90's like the Integra and Legend.

Lexus-This probably isn't a popular opinion but I think Lexus is doing pretty good overall. They have a few models that are disappointing and the front end styling is a big turnoff to most people but they still make some great cars. Still super reliable, a little more sporty than the past, very good resale, etc. They do seem to be geared more towards the older crowd which doesn't help their reputation.

Infiniti-Kind of torn on this one. Like Lexus they are kind of hit/miss. I think the Q50 is the best deal in the luxury market. The interior could use some improvement but overall is a great car. As much as I love the QX50 and QX70 they really don't make a lot of sense for most buyers to own. The Q70/M 5 years in is still a great car but not worth $70k IMO. I amazed every time I sit inside a QX80, they are really amazing vehicles but I still have a hard time understanding why someone would pay $100k for any SUV but that's just me.

BMW-I really don't get the love for this brand overall. Styling is fine, interiors are plain, tech in everything except the 7 series is always behind the Japanese, reliability is questionable, and they are seriously over priced. A decent equipped 328 is $50k, a 750 is over $100k, etc. I've driven a 335 and a 535 and I wanted to love the cars but they just didn't seem that great to me. They have some special models like the M2 that are really impressive but once again we're talking about a compact sports car for the price of a corvette.

Mercedes-I really don't know a lot about Mercedes. Also seem to be expensive like BMW but the C class seems nice. I sat inside a CLA at the Chicago auto show last year and was very disappointing. The interior reminded me of something you'd find in a 20K civic. Was considering a used C63 when I bought the M56 but didn't want to have to replace the tires every 10k miles (no joke) and other reliability issues.

Cadillac-My Infiniti dealer is also a Cadillac dealer and I've been pretty impressed with the Cadillac's I've seen but I've also been surprised about the price tags. Cadillac use to be priced similar to Acura/Infiniti but now they seem to be priced like BMW. They also need to improve their SUV lineup. The newer Escalades are fine but the SRX doesn't do it for me and that's their only other SUV.


In the end, I'm not their target customer because I'm never going to buy a new luxury car. I want the 2 year old $70k car for $35k. I want the 2 year old $50k car for $30k. When it comes to these types of choices I rarely have brand loyalty because each automaker makes at least one model that interests me (not Acura).