crower titainium rods custom discussion

[BACARDI_DWB]

debating on having them made for me or buying them if they already have them. having the ability to rev like a ferrari really apeals to me. already setting aside money to have a very nice set. i know alot of you say just go with what is already there and/or stay stock since they are forged but that doesn't suit my application. i want a very fast spooling fast reving monster and the way to get a fast spooling car is to have a fast rever without spending uber amounts on turbo work which i already plan on doing a little of. just wondering what your comments were from those who have already done a rebuild or have played a little with Ti ? thanks

[PulsarDet]

It's might worth the price to check the price for pauter or carrilo con rods, would be. They still forged and fitted with arp bolt and maybe cheaper to do custom by crower.

[BACARDI_DWB]

thanks for the heads up i will check the price. but i get a good guy discount at crower i havve some friends over there so i will check thanks

[iliketocrash]

titanium rods? straight titanium or some sort of alloy? because i don't think titanium has the ideal physical properties for such an application. i might be mistaken though. i'm curious to know more about them :-)

[BACARDI_DWB]

Its a titanium alloy compound. they have been using them for a long time in street bikes and f1 cars. i have known a few ppl to use them also. just wondering if anyone else had any info

[OmarM]

Get your stock rods machined back to spec, put arp rod bolts if they have them, stock will work and use high performance bearing, get a nice set of cp pistons, and a jun or tomei flywheel and build your head. It will rev to 9k if don properly. Nice gt28r or gt2871r, megasquirt, make 300-380whp with insane spool, and a 4.36 vlsd. Stock pistons good for 500hp with proper tuning, its all in the tuning.

[float_6969]

Stock pistons, or stock rods are good for 500hp? As for the titanium, I don't think it's worth the money, but that's my opinion....

[OmarM]

I apologize for my grammatical errors first. Second I did mean the stock rods and not the pistons. But the setup I mentioned would be beautiful for the street, my car will be there shortly.

[dattodude]

yeah.. no rods will make your car rev like a ferrari.

that's just BS. $20,000 worth of head work, cams, pistons, rods, valvetrain will make it rev like a ferrari. $1000 rods will just make it cost as much as a ferrari.

No offence intended...I'm just fighting to counteract all of the lying scumbag salespeople who promise the world in advertising, and only succeded in taking money from the uneducated.

[ragenasian]

DATTODUDE = TRUTH

[BACARDI_DWB]

Edit cause i had a bad morning:

Alright first is first

I am not looking for alternatives to what other rods their are i am pretty set on the titanium rods.

Secondly this is not going to be a daily driver this is my race car

and also i am fully aware of what stock can do

its my money let me spend it how i want i was wonderin if there is anyone with any experiance with titanium rods.

i know that it will not rev exactly like a ferarri it was an expression. but it will rev fast. and btw i am going to be spending close to 10grand on just the engine/turbo alone.

I already know what i want to do with my project and i have done all my research. don't need 500hp i am making a car that will have close to 300-400hp thru out the entire rev range. no peaks no dips. i want good quality horsepower.

i know rods are not going to beable to rev like a ferrari at all. but its the conjunctin of parts. i found a distributor in aulstrailia that makes leightweight forged pistons. and i am getting a full head workover. with custom fererra valves springs and retainers. I know there are plenty of ways of going about this but this is my path and i would hope fellow CA guys would respect that and not critisize. this is going to be a 3 year project for me and i am pulling out all the stops so to say.

i am one to believe that the lighter the rotational mass the faster it will rev and since that theory is based on these idems: rotational weight/friction and drag. and since i cant to too much about friction and drag i am looking at the rotational weight portion. i am a firm believer in power to weight ratio. that is why my base car is a datsun 510. RWD and it will weigh about 2000lbs with me in it along with a roll bar. 300-400hp in a car that weighs that much is alot. especially if the hp is thru the whole revrange and you can get thru your revrange quickly.

so now that you all know my plans can anyone elaborate on their experiances with titanium? the only reason i ask is cause i have a friend that swears that it will wear out to fast for any good use
Modified by BACARDI_DWB at 9:21 AM 9/14/2006

[boost_boy]

You have my respect in regards to how you spend your cash! And besides, I'd be interested to see how your project turns out. Someone's taking a different path, would love to see where this path leads you (I hope exactly where you want to be). I'm not too sure if anyone around here has experience with titanium rods, but again, try them and report to us broke-@sses what benefit they provide. And of course I'm aware of where you're trying to go with this, so you and I both know there's more more to it than just the rods. You have my good wishes .

Dee

[c-rad]

If rotational mass is your concern, I would look to find a place to make you a one-off billett lightweight crankshaft. Thats where most of the rotating mass is anyway. Saving 30-40 grams on some rods is not where it's at.

[BACARDI_DWB]

i was going to do some machining to the crank and haveit balanced with the pistons and the rods. but i def will look into that idea thanks!

[dash]

in your fast rev formula, you forgot the main component;You'll never rev faster than the load your motor is haulin' allows you to. Simple example; change your gear ratio from a 3.90 to a 4.88. If your parts all weighed 1 ounce each and cost a zillion dollars they wouldn't make as pronounced a 'faster revving' difference as that simple gear change. Now the new gearing may slow you down over the course. Point being, everything is still a tradeoff. $10k won't even come close to getting around it. Its your money tho.

3-400hp over the entire rev range ? What rpms is this ?

Since you're set on titanium rods, go for it. One look around and you see nobody here strays that wildly off the beaten path, let alone share experience with such.

We're not 'critcising' your efforts, just offering suggestions.Hell, I'm all for "out of the box players", but I think your target might be an illusion.

btw what kind of racing ? what will your competitors be driving 3 years from now (your completion date) ? You obviously must know.

Have you been in any turbo 4 cyl race car with the powerband/rpm characteristics you crave - that would lead you to believe you need titanium rods ?You seem so sure the traditional build hot ca18 wouldn't cut it.

I'd think you'd have enough challenges competeing for your resources, for example;building a durable motor for track dutycomponents and tuning to deliver the power where you want reliablygearing the car to suit the track

good luck man

[BACARDI_DWB]

ok in no way shape or form i said anything that stated that titanium rods were the basis of my engine build and i am forming all of my theories about how this engine will run based on a magical set of titanium rods. i am not asking anyone on how to build a car. i was just askin if anyone had any experiance. i understand gear changing is going to change how a car revs. not the point i am getting to. i am looking for 400 crank hp. that has nothing to do with gearing sorry i didn't specify. and yes i have a dodge srt-4 that has 300wheel horsepower from 2500 to 6000rpm. and in driving i dont need any more hp that low. when i say rev range i am speaking of the usable rev range. i don't need 300 hp at 1200rpm. this target i speak of is not an illusion. these rods are not simply my answer to everything i understand that. but you ask me why i think i need titanium rods and i will ask you why people think they need a lightened flywheel on a daily driven car? its a horrible way to save on gas money using that loss of load means more pedal meaning more gas to get the car moving from stop light to stop light. and the type of racing i am building for is drag and scca racing. i want to build a car that can do both. not professionally but just cause its something that i have wanted to do. and as to your last statement

"I'd think you'd have enough challenges competeing for your resources, for example;building a durable motor for track duty"

and to your question on " what will your competitors be driving 3 years from now"

who cares i am not buying their car i am going out there for fun once again this is my car i am building for my reasons.

this is why i am asking if anyone has had any experiance with titanium rods. if they wear out within the first 3 heat cycles or what. i am asking so i can make an educated guess on if the rods are worth it. if they will last 10 years of daily drivin then that means they "should last" 3 years of racing. meaning to me that is a good tradeoff. but if they will only last one season then its of course not such a good idea. i am asking in this discussion if anyone has ever had any experiance with titanium rods not if my build will work. that is my problem to deal with. i am asking for reliability. please let me deal with gearing. ok i will hit that road when i get there. right now i am working on 300-400 crank horses so with that said i should not of posted here cause i am not getting the answers i thought i would of gotten about titanium rods what i have been getting is people trying to tune my motor for me from their keyboard and its realy starting to upset me. i don't need suggestions i have plenty of those myself and didn't ask for any. i am sorry if i am sounding like an a$$ but i really don't like to be second guessed on my own build when i am already set in my ways. its like me doing 20 hours of research on a gt2871r turbo and some salesman telling me i need to buy a gt40 cause it will suit my needs when he doesn't know what my needs are or what i want to do. so please dont be that salesman i have done my research i know what titanium rods can do and how they act. i know the prices of them i know there are better ways to do this and i am not building the engine around these magical rods. i am asking if anyone has had any real world experiance with titanium rods and what they thought of them and if you don't please don't add your "suggestion" of how i should build my motor. i will make that decision on my own.

sorry for being upset

[float_6969]

If you don't care what we think, then why did you start a post asking our opinion, or did I misunderstand what you wanted?

As others have stated, a lightweight rod isn't going to help you THAT much, and my concern regarding titanium is simply that it hasn't been applied that much to the racing scene and we don't have any experience as to how it's going to stand up in that environment. I'd hate to see you spend that kind of money on a set of rods so that you could be the guinea pig that finds out that they're a bad idea. Ya know what I mean?

[c-rad]

so please dont be that salesman i have done my research i know what titanium rods can do and how they act.

So what exactly is your question?

[BACARDI_DWB]

float thank you that is what i was inquiring about.

and c-rad i am asking if anyone has had any experiance with titanium and if they have had issues and or any real life experiance with it i am sorry if i didnt make that clear enough for everyone.
Modified by BACARDI_DWB at 7:25 AM 9/15/2006

[BACARDI_DWB]

Well i want to apologize to everyone i am sorry for being a prick guys.

I called my friend at crower and asked him about uses and how it will work and if he has ever used them and their life expectancy and he told me he will not sell them to me. or even entertain that idea, just because of the same reason that float just mentioned. it has not been tested and from what he can tell they wear down to quickly to even be that effective for any length of time. so now its a choice between pauter x beams and crower forgies. i get discounts thru crower so i will most likely go with them. thank you for all your idea's and concerns.

[tyrannix]

So what exactly is your question?

his questions were if anyone had actual experience using them, or knew the life cycle

sorry, ive only been in this game a couple of years sofar, and have no experience with any custom rods at all

but i have about the same final goal for power as you (decent amount of usable power over the whole powerband that revs quick) my path is expiramenting with ca20 blocks first, to see what i can do with them, as there isnt a whole lot of information available about CA20DETs, just that they do exist

but as stated earlier, it looks like youll pretty much be pioneering the Ti rods in a CA, so good luck. and update when you get anymore information, so we can all learn

CJ

edit> DOH, i was typing while you posted. either way, update with what you end up using and how the rest of the build goes for you

[BACARDI_DWB]

i will entertain the idea of a 20 block. what is the bore and stroke of a 20? can it be squared? (bore and stroke the same) i am a big believer in having a square block from all the top end cars they all tend to try to use the square block for the best power making capabilities. its not something i am going to loose sleep at night about if its not square (btw i was going to use a 83.5 piston since the stroke is .6) that is pretty square. but i will look into that 20 block like you suggested

[themadscientist]

85x88, it has a taller deck.

[float_6969]

I don't think you can get the 20 out to 88mm. I REALLY don't think the cylnder spacing is any different (it couldn't be or the cranks wouldn't interchange) meaning it's not possible to get the CA20 square unless you put in the CA18 crank, and now you're not gaining much except a slightly better rod:length ratio, and you'll prob still have to have custom rods made.

IMHO, I dont' think the trouble of the CA20 is worth it, but I LOVE that you guys are trying and I REALLY HOPE I'm wrong, as I think it would be a fun little motor.

[BACARDI_DWB]

yeah that is a little too far fetched for me to try... i will stick with the 18

[iliketocrash]

titanium itself tends to wear down fast and it will stretch over time. titanium is a little too soft of a metal for such an application. titanium valves on most newer bikes for example stretch pretty easily and costly adjustments must be made. even when they make guns from titanium, the barrel of the gun is not titanium itself because it's too soft and the bullet will rub the rifling right out of the barrel, among other major issues. now they may have some sort of new alloy that makes it stronger but why not call up and ask a company that deals with these rods and ask them what they do to make titanium a usable material for rods and then do some research and see if their explanation is viable.