Crashed The V

[The Edge]

Was going down a hill in second gear and there was a sharp turn up

ahead that i've traveled hundreds of times. Hit the brakes to make the

turn, brakes locked up so i released the brakes and jammed it into 1st

gear hit the brakes again and it locked up so i released and started making

the turn, car started making the turn but didnt catch enough grip and i hit

the curb at a slight angle causing my driver side wheel to bend and hit the

wheel well. my fender is also rubbing the driver door. Car is at the dealer

for repair. What really hurts is my deductable is $1000 but the dealer said

costs will easily be over that. If i had anti lock brakes that would have

never happened. The roadway was wet but i've traveled this road many

times before. Tires has only 12K on them. Sucks that i have an SL with no

ABS

Total damage was

1) Bent Axle

2)Fender rubbing on driver door

3)Paint off the bumper

[aleckz]

Were you racing around the corner? Sorry to hear that :/ but personally I would never put it into a lower gear to slow the car that drastically especially around a corner, if anything you might have caused the wheel spin by doing so. I hope everything comes out alright with your V and that the cost isn't too high!

[The Edge]

i wasn't going fast at all. I was in 2nd gear and the sequence of events i describes all happened in about 3 seconds. I've been driving stick my whole life and i jammed it into 1st gear because it would slow me down without the tires lockign from braking. It helped btu not enough. Another 10 feet of roadway and I would've been in the clear. As far as cost is concerned, i'm not worried because Geico is covering it except for the first 1K with I have to put out. My rep told me they will cover up to 16K btu i thin it will be between 2.5 and 5K

[Driving Instructor]

NO COMMENT ........

[aleckz]

Driving Instructor, what would you have done in that situation? I am curious mostly because of your name.

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Sorry to hear about your accident.

By no means should you ever downshift or "jam" your car into first gear.

[matttail]

those of you who are saying you should not down shift to slow a car down, have you ever driven stick? And what would you have done differently? It's just stupid to say don't and not give us an explanation.

To the OP, I'm guessing that the road was recently wet? That pushes all the oil up off the road way and makes it extra slick. you're stuck in a bad place there, with not enough time to slow down and the wheels slipping. Down shifting is a great way to slow the vehicle down, it's just not as fast as your breaks.

Not that the versa is a Motorcycle, but this is what you do for motorcycles too. Often the brakes on a bike won't have enough power to stop the bike quickly. You always down shift through your gears to slow down while using the brakes. You apply more force to the front brake than the back, and use the engine to help finish up the job. Yes, that means you're working three different things at the same time.

I've got Geico too, and they'll be good for the money. I've only had great experience working with them.

[The Edge]

Yes, the rain was recent and the road was oily. I was braking as i down shifted.

Like i said earlier, a few more feet and i would have been good.

Driving Instructor, please share your wisdom since i'm sure you are the world's greatest driver. After all, you are an instructor.

[feloniousmonk]

The roadway was wet but i've traveled this road many times before.

I think that's how most single vehicle accidents occur. Can't get too confident or complacent. ABS might have helped but I hate to tell you that wouldn't have solved your problems completely. Have to adjust your driving to the conditions no matter how familiar you are with the road. Remember, ABS didn't exist for many many years. People got along fine without it. This year's Monaco GP (Formula 1, few weekends ago) most of the drivers averaged 170 mph on a very wet and tight urban street course with no traction control.

Glad you weren't hurt. Live and learn... Good luck with the repairs.

[scooterbob]

those of you who are saying you should not down shift to slow a car down, have you ever driven stick? And what would you have done differently? It's just stupid to say don't and not give us an explanation.

Down shifting is a great way to slow the vehicle down, it's just not as fast as your breaks.

Not that the versa is a Motorcycle, but this is what you do for motorcycles too.

Driving a motorcycle is totally different. A motorcycle is rear wheel driven and down shifting is slowing the rear wheel without locking it up (like brakes can), while maintaining good steering. The Versa being front wheel drive will only make the skid worse if downshifted too aggressively. When downshifting a front wheel drive car, you take a greater risk of losing your steering ability.

I have driven nothing but manual transmissions all my life. I also have had a motorcyle for the last 16 years. Front wheel and rear wheel drive on cars both have their advantages. Comparing cars to motorcycles is a big difference though. (I understand you are merely making an example.)

[bucksnort]

Did you have the crap stock tires on?

[feloniousmonk]

those of you who are saying you should not down shift to slow a car down, have you ever driven stick? And what would you have done differently? It's just stupid to say don't and not give us an explanation.

Sheesh, take it easy. Most of this info can be found via Google.

Down shifting to slow the car down is OK if you really know what you're doing (as opposed to think you know what you're doing). I usually don't compression brake because worn brakes are much cheaper to replace than the engine or transmission. The only time I compression brake is when I'm really attacking a corner in the dry. I never compression brake in emergency situations. Brakes are more effective.

More on topic... Think weight transfer. On a FWD car, if you don't down shift smoothly (rev-match), you can cause the car to buck due to mismatch between engine speed and vehicle speed. Ever let the clutch out too soon or abruptly while down shifting? This bucking can unload the rear causing the rear tires to break loose which could lead to oversteer when you're in mid-turn. And if you're not ready to control or counter the oversteer, you'll end up overcorrecting back and forth playing catch-up (fish-tailing). Better tires help, but every tire no matter how sticky they are still have their limits of adhesion.

If you were on a track with room to play with, you'd want to roll on the gas smoothly and let the rears trail and settle to pull out of the fish-tailing. On the street, there may not be enough room to do this. In emergency situation like OP's story, you'd have to be a master to rev-match and do everything else I mentioned instinctively in a short amount of time. It can be a handful.

Without traction control, the last thing you should do in the wet is to jam on the brakes or attempt to shed speed abruptly in mid-corner. Smoothness is the key and a good habit to have even in dry. Also, to go through corners fast, your entry speed is not as important as your exit speed. Entering a corner too fast will most likely cause you to exit slow (because you've F'ed up!)

General rule of thumb: Be smoooooth. Do most of your slowing/braking before you start to turn, trail break as you turn towards the apex, then smoothly roll on the power to exit.
Modified by feloniousmonk at 10:26 PM 6/12/2008

[weems84]

Sheesh, take it easy. Most of this info can be found via Google.

Down shifting to slow the car down is OK if you really know what you're doing (as opposed to think you know what you're doing). I usually don't compression brake because worn brakes are much cheaper to replace than the engine or transmission. The only time I compression brake is when I'm really attacking a corner in the dry. I never compression brake in emergency situations. Brakes are more effective.

More on topic... Think weight transfer. On a FWD car, if you don't down shift smoothly (rev-match), you can cause the car to buck due to mismatch between engine speed and vehicle speed. Ever let the clutch out to soon or abruptly while down shifting? This bucking can unload the rear causing the rear tires to break loose which could lead to oversteer when you're in mid-turn. And if you're not ready to control or counter the oversteer, you'll end up overcorrecting back and forth playing catch-up (fish-tailing). Better tires help, but every tire no matter how sticky they are still have their limits of adhesion.

If you were on a track with room to play with, you'd want to roll on the gas smoothly and let the rears trail and settle to pull out of the fish-tailing. On the street, there may not be enough room to do this. In emergency situation like OP's story, you'd have to be a master to rev-match and do everything else I mentioned instinctively in a short amount of time. It can be a handful.

Without traction control, the last thing you should do in the wet is to jam on the brakes or attempt to shed speed abruptly in mid-corner. Smoothness is the key and a good habit to have even in dry. Also, to go through corners fast, your entry speed is not as important as your exit speed. Entering a corner too fast will most likely cause you to exit slow (because you've F'ed up!)

General rule of thumb: Be smoooooth. Do most of your slowing/braking before you start to turn, trail break as you turn towards the apex, then smoothly roll on the power to exit.

Modified by feloniousmonk at 12:09 AM 6/12/2008

Sorry to quote the whole description.

But that was perfectly described. Thanks

[Driving Instructor]

We all do it....... get too comfortable and relax when it comes to driving. But we all know that sh$T happens and it only takes a split second to get in crap. He told me exactly what was wrong....... sharp turn.... wet..... too fast.... did that corner hundreds of times.......

Plain and simple: bad habits.

When it comes to driving.......100% of your time should be focused on your driving. Always thinking what if.......what next...this is an easy way out of getting in trouble.

I don't teach what to do when you get into a skid, I teach how to avoid it. How to respect the weather, how to anticipate issues............and how not to panic.

Did The Edge do anything really wrong......... the only thing he did wrong: he was to used to the corner and did not respect the weather. ABS or no ABS........ you need to know how a vehicle handles before getting into situations. In an emergency is not the place you want to find out. And slamming it into 1st might of locked up the wheels getting you into a skid......... depending on the tires and the road conditions.

Do you think he will do the same thing again? I think it's a lesson for all of us to be aware of what is going on around us and slow down before the corner and not in it.

Yesterday, I was walking and my neighbor almost ran me over...... how many people drive in their driveways and back out....... YOU ARE LAZY.

We all are victims of Laziness...........

[AUTOxVERSA]

thank god for the ABS package

[Ever Victorious]

Yesterday, I was walking and my neighbor almost ran me over...... how many people drive in their driveways and back out....... YOU ARE LAZY.

I don't know about where you live, but it's illegal where I live to back INTO your driveway unless you live on a private road. It's also illegal to back into parking stalls, but people ignore that all the time here, too.

[The Edge]

I posted what happened here just to let you guys know since we are all versa owners. I don't need back seat driver's telling me what I did wrong or what I should've done. Even you so called experts should know that when put in a situaion when you have 1-3 seconds to react that sometimes you WILL do the wrong thing or the right thing. I'm 32 and have been driving since I was 16 and this is my first accident. AND that is exactyl what it was an ACCIDENT. So thanks to everyone who offered their sympathy and to those who critisized how I reacted you can keep the comments to yourself......yes that means you driving instructor.

Could have this been avoided if I were going slower....of course but it doesn't take a genius or driving instructor to figure that out.

[The Edge]

Did you have the crap stock tires on?

YUP

[Driving Instructor]

Hello The Edge,

Sorry, did not mean any insult........ and trust me, I am the farthest thing from perfect.

I just wanted to remind drivers that we all have bad habits and eventually they will catch up to us. Take a step back and think about how we drive and see how many bad habits we all have.

IT ONLY TAKES ONE TIME TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

and if you look up the definition of an accident: The word accident should not be used when describing a crash between a motor vehicle and a train. An "accident" is an uncontrolled event. A "crash" or a "collision" is preventable. The preferred terms are crash, collision, and incident. (See Crash.) http://www.oli.org/education_r....htmlYou were involved in a collision. A good thing is you did not get hurt, that is what counts!

No insulted intended!
Modified by Driving Instructor at 7:32 PM 6/12/2008

[Bubs daddy]

[quote]And what would you have done differently? [/quote

Enter the corner at a slower speed for conditions.

[Kokanee]

Boy am I Glad the SL package comes w/ ABS in Canada! Good luck w/ repairs

[feloniousmonk]

Those of you who think ABS is the answer to all, think again. It's there to help, it won't do all the work for you. You still have to actively think about the road ahead and underneath you at all times. ABS is a safety aid to help you for the times that you underestimate a situation. Best to not rely completely on it.

[feloniousmonk]

I don't teach what to do when you get into a skid, I teach how to avoid it.

Honestly, I am amazed that you don't teach your students basic car control in addition to avoidance. Yes, basic. Every licensed driver aught to know how to get out of a skid. They might not ever put the skill to use, but like the saying goes "never say never".

Sorry and I don't mean to be an a**, but is it possible to request better use of punctuation? Your posts are incredibly difficult to read.

[Driving Instructor]

Honestly, I am amazed that you don't teach your students basic car control in addition to avoidance. Yes, basic. Every licensed driver aught to know how to get out of a skid. They might not ever put the skill to use, but like the saying goes "never say never".

Sorry and I don't mean to be an a**, but is it possible to request better use of punctuation? Your posts are incredibly difficult to read.

Sorry, most of my posts are late in the day and my brain does not work at that time! I do teach basic skid control (never brake, steer where you want to go, don't panic) I teach how to avoid a skid: recognizing the hazard, adjust your driving skills to the weather conditions, drive within your ability and understand your vehicle.

Think about this: I teach a new driver who really can't handle a car how to get out of a skid in a controlled situation (in a big parking lot) at a slow speed 35 to 50 kph. So wow, now the student has the false sense that if they get into a skid, they can get out of it. But what will happen when they are driving at hwy speeds (90 kph or more) and they get into a skid. I don't care who you are or what your skills have, you are in some serious trouble. So in my opinion a student will be safer using his brain instead of his skills to keep out of trouble. I call it respecting the road conditions.

Hope this clears it up.

[gotak]

Just to chip in. Shouldn't compression brake in slippery conditions you can't control the amount of braking you get unless you are going to slip the clutch but than what's the point?

It's actually a "feature" built in the new VWs where it somehow disengage the engine when you are braking hard. Cause otherwise the ABS wouldn't work as well as it should. Think very slippery conditions like on ice. First thing they teach you here in Canada. Neutral on automatics and clutch in on stick if you are stopping in snow or ice.

[Vahagn23]

You got to learn how to tap the breaks. I tap my breaks on rainy and snow weather. Better than ABS . On a sharp curve you cant slam breaks, especially on rain, its obvious your cars gona start sliding. Did you try pulling the hand break as well?

[Andrews Chalmers]

You got to learn how to tap the breaks. I tap my breaks on rainy and snow weather. Better than ABS . On a sharp curve you cant slam breaks, especially on rain, its obvious your cars gona start sliding. Did you try pulling the hand break as well?

Bad bad advice - applying hand brakes ruin the balance of the brake system and will increase the chances of losing control.

[Vahagn23]

Bad bad advice - applying hand brakes ruin the balance of the brake system and will increase the chances of losing control.

just asking, no advice

[Driving Instructor]

I figured it out after a rough day of teaching. Just drive a tank, that is the safest way to keep out of trouble. 3 times today other drivers tried to kill me! A good thing my spider sense are working.

[ITasteLightBulbs]

Ive downshifted out of accidents plenty of times in my V.(Atl is dangerous for small cars). The Versa doesnt catch like most manuals though, so I cant understand anyone saying that downshifting was the wrong move. If anything Id blame the tires.