Crank No Start with Multiple Dash Lights

[rogue9]

Hi all! I "rescued" a 2008 Rogue S from someone who did not take care of it. They heard a noise driving it and parked it for a year. Their other car started having problems so they decided to get it fixed. The tire was flat and the engine was running rough with a misfire. Local shop fixed the tire, changed the oil, and supposedly fixed the misfire, but cannot confirm. The repairs were completed on a Friday. The owner drove it for a couple of days but by that Sunday, they began experiencing a Crank, No Start issue. The care was brought back to shop who diagnosed and attempted to repair but was unsuccessful. Their prognosis is ECM.
Vehicle was then brought to another shop, who did nothing but at least did not charge them. Owner gave up and sold the Rogue to me as-is sight unseen (I work with the owner so I was aware of the whole situation but had never seen the car.)
I towed the vehicle for about 5 miles on all four wheels using the tow hook (25 mph or less.) One tire was almost flat upon pickup.
Since obtaining the vehicle I have cleaned it, drained and replaced the fuel, filled the tires to specs, replaced the corroded battery, rechecked every fuse, checked the ECM relay, and removed and re-installed the ECM, BCM, and NATS/IMMU unit on the ignition switch (took photos for future reference of codes and part numbers.) Vehicle still cranks no start. Several lights on dash.
Another noteworthy item is the brake pads/rotors were never changed in 71,000 miles.

I have attached a like to a video of the starting sequence for review. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. I like this car and intend to do all the other needed maintenance one it actually starts.

[youtube][/YTXBYiYZtCg]

[rogue9]

Sorry would not let me add link but search youtube for "HELP! Crank no start". Thanks!

[Rogue Jarhead]

Crank and no start can be an electrial problem. However it can also be a fuel or air problem. Are you getting fuel to the fuel rail/injectors? I believe the rogue has an in tank fuel pump with the filter sock on the bottom of the pump itself. Sitting for an entire year is never good for a vehicle. You might need to replace the pump and filter.

Have you checked the air intake and air filter? Rodents build nests in all kinds of places. Check the airway from the very front to the intake manifold and change the filter if you haven't already. Make sure there is no obstruction anywhere in the airway/intake piping.

Do you have a code reader? With the computers on today's vehicles they can point you in the right direction if you just read the codes. A rodent chewed crank or cam sensor wire would cause a crank no start also.

I would read the codes first and go from there. If you don't have a code reader you need to get one if you're going to rescue a vehicle like this.

[16SLAWD]

I'm not a mechanic but i would start with getting a code reader and see what it says. Come back here and post the results if you're still stuck. It seems like it could be the fuel pump for sure. Also I'm not sure if this is normal but after watching you're video on YouTube I noticed the tire pressure monitor light flash 3 times fast then slow which I am not sure if that is normal.

[rogue9]

Thanks for the quick responses. I have 2 OBD readers but both need the engine running. TPMS was weird and it may be some sort of code but I cannot find a reference to it. I thought fuel and air but it ran for two days and, when I drained the tank, the pump was fine and the fuel was not dirty in the bottom. Air intake is clean.
The VDC OFF/SLIP/BRAKE dash light combo leads to pads and rotors from what I've read. I'm also aware that the camshaft & crankshaft position sensors could be at fault for no start. But again, I'm hung up on the security light.
The only thing that throws the whole thing off is the security indicator light.

[Rogue Jarhead]

Any obd reader I've ever used you do not need the engine running unless you're doing live readings. Just turn the key so that the dash lights all come on and then let the code reader connect.

Most code readers will not read the tpms codes or the vdc slip brake system. The vdc is most likely a wheel speed sensor that has been damaged or just plain failed. That happens, one poster on here found them on amazon for about $20 ea I had to replace my fronts and got them from Rockauto for $80 ea.

If you have a security light, do you have more than one key ,if so try the other. All newer vehicles have a chip in the key itself that the cars computer detects. Sometimes they go bad.

Three things are needed to make an engine run. Fuel, air and spark. Of course we can talk about the timing and all that but if you can verify you have all three, that usually goes a long way toward getting a vehicle running.

[rogue9]

Thanks for the input Jarhead. I do not have a second key. I will try the code readers again but I have no check engine lights as of yet. If I can, i will look for pending ones. Any other suggestions are appreciated, no matter how minor they may seem.

[rogue9]

Also I'm not sure if this is normal but after watching you're video on YouTube I noticed the tire pressure monitor light flash 3 times fast then slow which I am not sure if that is normal.

16SLAWD, thanks for noticing a pattern on the TPMS light. I searched the WT section of the Service Manual (Page WT-5) and found the flashing indicates what tire pressure sensors need to be woke. According to this, both tires on the driver's side are asleep. If it were all tires (a constant 2 sec on, .2 sec off), I would think BCM but keyless entry & locks/windows work. At this point, I do not believe it to be related to the crank no start issue but I will keep this information for when I do get it started.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6yIzT ... sp=sharing

[rogue9]

UPDATE: I just had a local Pop-A-Lock tech come out and attempt to remove the immobilizer. Very knowledgable and experienced with unlocking cars at auctions and repos. He attempted to unlock with pin. Obtained the code electronically from the BCM but it would not take the old or new PIN. I know this could be a BCM problem but there are several components involved. Any suggestions on this would be most appreciated (additional testing, specific part to replace, etc.) Thanks.

[rogue9]

UPDATE: Well after scouring the service manuals (thanks NICO Club for providing) and following suggestions from here and other forums on the site, I have come to a point that indicates the IPDM E/R is at fault. I found piece of new information that the vehicle produced a U1000 code before it was cleared and the shops began to work on it. The SES light does not come on at all and I followed the tests prescribed in the LAN service manual section which then led me to the EC section. A series of continuity and voltage checks between the ECM and the IPDM E/R have concluded (to the best of my ability) that the IPDM E/R was at fault. The auto active test did not show any signs of issues (cooling fans did not come on but relays clicked and voltage was produced accordingly during test.) Now I have a new decision to make.
SEC section of service manual states the following:

"During trouble diagnosis or when the following parts have been replaced, and if ignition key is added, registration*
is required.
*1: All keys kept by the owner of the vehicle should be registered with ignition key.
- ECM
- BCM
- Ignition key
- EPS control unit
- IPDM E/R
- Combination meter
• NVIS/NATS trouble diagnosis, system initialization and additional registration of other Ignition key IDs must
be carried out using CONSULT-III hardware and SECURITY CARD.

It states AND if the key is added. Later in the manual, it states:

A new part (except ignition key) should register automatically
after the ignition switch is turned ON. New one means a virgin control unit that has never
been energized on-board.

I can get a used but tested good IPDM (284B7-ET03A) on eBay for $150.00 plus $14.32 shipping or a new one from NissanPartsPlus.com for $277.02 with free UPS 2-day shipping. However, if the new part does not require programming by the dealer, that makes it worth the extra money.

So, does anyone have experience changing out an IPDM E/R on a first generation Rogue without intelligent key? Reprogram needed? Thanks for any info.

[gkrasco]

Look for a blown fuse in the IPDM fuse box (Rear Box in the Engine Compartment) I think its fuse #67 Look to see if there was ever a Remote Starter System installed. Depending upon conditions it may cause this symptom, Look for an open NATS Antenna Coil at the ignition switch.

[rogue9]

Thanks for the response gk. I actually swapped the IPDM with a new one: no dice. Tried two different NATS antennas: no change. Waiting for a Consult III device to show up. Thanks again for responding.

[Rogue Jarhead]

I think quite possibly this could be a key issue. Perhaps the previous owner had two keys and lost one about the time he started experiencing the crank no start.

An older lady came to church one day in her Subaru, she drove to church fine but when it came time to go home her car wouldnt start. Several guys were trying to assist her and they were at the point of talking a tow to a nearby garage. One of them flagged me down and I went over to take a look. I tried to start it and as I recall it wouldn't even turn over just lit the dash lights. I saw in the lower corner a security light. About that time she happened to mention her other key, I asked if I could have that, she gave it to me, stuck it in and the car fired right up. Her spare key was not coded to the car, I think that may very well be your problem also.

The vdc/slip thing is unrelated to the no start and is probably a wheel speed sensor. If you have a consult 3 on the way you should be able to plug it in and and tell which sensors are bad. You should also be able to code the key, though in some instances I think you have to have one good working key to code additional ones. I'm not sure if that's true of nissan.

[rogue9]

Thanks for the info. The previous owner hasn't had the other key for a while. A locksmith tried to put in the pin to get the system to reprogram the key but it would not accept it. Consult III requires a security card, that I did not purchase, to access NATS functions. I guess I'll just have to wait for the device to arrive before I know anything more. I'll post updates as they come. Thanks for all the help!

[Rogue Jarhead]

IF this proves to be a key problem, you may need to take it to a dealer to have it coded properly unless you can find the instructions on doing it with the consult.

[rogue9]

UPDATE: The knock-off Consult-III device actually works! I was able to diagnose the CAN system and got the same error code that was previously recorded: U1000. It also showed me that there was an issue with the ECM and the communication lines to it. Sent the ECM to SIA Electroncis to have it repaired. I have since received it back but have not installed it because they say that will not be covered by warranty if the vehicle defect is not corrected. They stated that I needed to check for "bad ground" and to check the IPDM E/R. Since I bought a brand new IPDM, that only leaves locating any potential issues with a bad ground. I spoke to the previous owner who recalls that they may have accidentally jumped the car off with the wires backward when they were "waking it up" after being parked for a year. Also, the ignition coil #1 was also replaced because it was misfiring and causing driving issues after the jump but before it was brought it. Anyone know if the reverse jump would kill a coil and "slow burn" an ECM? The rogue did run for 2-3 days after the coil was replaced. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for everyone's help so far.

[rogue9]

UPDATE: FIXED! SIA Electronics did a great job repairing the ECM. After rechecking for bad ground and double checking the IPDM connections, I installed the repaired ECM then ran Consult III diagnostics. They came back green across the board. I turned the key and the Security Indicator was off and the SES light was on. I turned the key and BOOYA she started!
Afterwards, I had a couple of codes from one of the shops not reconnecting the IVT and EVAP systems. The cooling fan got fried so I replaced them. TPMS light is flashing but that is minor. I am ordering new sensors. I am also going to do all maintenance for 60K mi.
Thanks to everyone who contributed and to the site for providing me the service manuals to get the job done.

[Rogue Jarhead]

Great job by the way. It is always encouraging and a little fun to figure these things out. Kinda of like a puzzle. By the way where did you get the Consult 3 or the knockoff version if thats what it was.

[rogue9]

AliExpress is where I bought it from. I bought the cheapest one including shipping. They all look the same and come with the software. It's not the Bluetooth version. I also got 4 TPMS sensors on eBay for $41.00. We'll see how that goes.

[rogue9]

Update: For those interested, the TPMS sensors from AliExpress work great. Reprogrammed them without the Consult software and the light has not come on but they are responding.