Correct pronounciation is elitist?

[HashiriyaS14]

Sorry, but I just got a HUGE LOL out of this article:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...2.php

Obviously this doesn't apply to the mainstream conservative press or most conservative voters (I hope), but a couple right-wing columnists have apparently gotten their panties in a bunch because Barack Obama pronounces "Pakistan" correctly (as does General Petraeus, the article reminds us).

This is obviously a non-issue, but it's good for a chuckle.

What does everyone think, it is "ostentatious" to try and pronounce something correctly?

Or, even more important, do we think that certain candidates INTENTIONALLY mispronounce certain words to make themselves seem more "American"? I don't harp on people for mispronunciation (except for "nucular"), but if a politician was really doing it intentionally for image reasons, I'd have to seriously question the intelligence of their supporters who are, apparently, swayed in some way by that.

[Cold_Zero]

My wife and I were joking about McCain pronouncing Taliban "Tolly-Ban" It sounds like a bad British pronounciation. We were working outside in the Yard singing Day-O with "Mr Tolly Bon" inserted for "Mr Tally Man."

I guess I am an elitist. I tend to try and pronounce the name of the country correctly to show... Respect. I cring when someone pronounces Iran as "I- Ran" It is "E-Ran." With a little roll of the tongue on the "R." It is not a long 'A'.

[AZhitman]

No, it's retarded.

Pocky-Stahn sounds absurd, as does Tally-ban.

Does Obama order a "budo" at a Mexican restaurant? Does he visit "Paree" when he goes to "Fronz"?

Hell, the TRUE pronunciation of "China" would be a challenge for even the most gifted of us...

I think it's a silly ploy to appear more "worldly" and respectful.

The fact that he goes to great pains to pronounce Achmedinijeninidajadidad's name properly tells me he's overly concerned with appearances.

I'd like him to come out and say, "You know, that a$$ over in Iran."

[Cold_Zero]

I always thought Politicians mis pronounced names of people and countries to imply disrespect. Thinking of GHW Bush mis pronouncing Saddam's name.

[Cold_Zero]

The other ironic aspect of this story was that I was talking with Frau Kelly last night in her driveway. I was talking about my inlaw's exchange student who is from ......Cologne. When I said "Cologne," she corrected me obviously with the correct pronunciation "Köln" and looked at me as if to say, "Dummkopf, you may have been born here, your family may have lived her for many generations, but you should know better." She is right, it will always be Bayern not Bavaria.Bud

[HashiriyaS14]

I guess I am an elitist. I cring when someone pronounces Iran as "I- Ran" It is "E-Ran." With a little roll of the tongue on the "R." It is not a long 'A'.

See, and I don't think that makes you an elitist.

I don't necessarily "cringe" when other people do it, I just prefer to do it properly myself. Words like "Iran" and "Pakistan", and yes even "Paris" and "Cuba" aren't English words, they're words from foreign languages, and so one should pronounce them however they're pronounced in said languages (if one knows how, if not, no harm no foul).

I mean, you don't need to go intoning fake accents and such, that's just nonsense, but there's a right and wrong way to pronounce words, just like there's a right and wrong way to do most things in life. I guess I just try to do shxt the right way, I'm generally concerned with doing shxt the right way, whatever it is.

I don't really fault anyone for anglicizing stuff though, I think that'd be really idiotic of me. I honestly don't even fault Palin for saying "EYE-RAK", that's how she talks, so be it. The idea, however, of a politician INTENTIONALLY screwing up a pronunciation strikes me as abhorrent though, just because the idea of "dumbing down" who you usually are to appeal to your supporters seems inherently dishonest to me. Obviously, if anyone's doing this, I can't prove it, and I don't really suspect anyone of doing it at present.

I've actually been waiting for Biden to start doing this to coincide with his "working class Scranton image", even though he obviously knows how to pronounce everything correctly since he's the foreign policy guru. Thankfully, he has yet to fail me on this one.

The "nucular" thing (with Bush AND Palin) is a whole other ball of wax though, since that's an ENGLISH word and she's just butchering it, lol. There's no excuse for that one.

[Cold_Zero]

Oh you had to bring up the "Butcher of Texas." It amazes me the level that, that man can butcher his own language.bud

[ishkabibble]

Anyone who comes from a city larger than 100,000 and doesn't talk like that chick from the movie Fargo is elitist.

[C-Kwik]

We could always bring up the Neeco vs Nighco argument. ;P

Frankly, so long as the person its being communicated to understands and its not done in a manner to be offensive (especially if intentional), then I have no problem with it. People pronounce many different things in different ways. I know I have some idiosyncratic ways of saying certain words. So I won't blame anyone for the same, nor will I go after someone who takes the effort to try and pronounce things correctly.

That said, what should be known, especially to those that are monolingual, is that many languages don't use the same words we do. For example, the Korean language, AFAIK, doesn't use the work Korea or Korean. These are American words. At the same time, in the Korean language, they use different words to describe Americans, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc., then the words we use. Words that are renditions of the proper pronunciation of countries may have been adaptations to make them easier to say (Don't ask me to roll my R's, for example).

On the other hand, some countries, such as the states, use real words that can be translated to other languages directly. Estados Unidos de America for example. So I don't think there is a distinct requirement to pronounce it correctly as long as its not disrespectful.

This issue really shouldn't be scrutinized much more than for entertainment. Any more than that and we are probably all focusing our attention on the wrong things in terms of politics.

[AZhitman]

^ Yep.

I recently learned there's really no such word as "Laotian", as people from Laos don't refer to themselves in such a manner.... It's an English construct.

[ishkabibble]

We could always bring up the Neeco vs Nighco argument. ;P

Not Nick-oh?

[SmithSR]

Sorry, but I just got a HUGE LOL out of this article

Tabloids are sometimes funny haha!

Yeah, total non-issue. Reasonable people hear others and can understand what they are saying.

[Cold_Zero]

Come on people. Most of the names for countries are either English translation or inventions into English. People in Germany don't call their country 'Germany' because that was the latin name the Romans gave the region. Inhabitants call it Deutschland and BTW it's not really Switzerland it's Suisse, Svizzera, Svizra or die Schweiz (short form). I guess the Germans do it to us.. we live in Die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika. Amerika for short.

[Jesda]

I can forgive most mispronunciations. Why? I lived in Washington for eight years and had to endure hearing "Warshington" from natives. Eventually, you learn that its just not important and give up on trying to correct the error. I also live among Missourians who say "Missourah".

I give up.

[MinisterofDOOM]

^ Yep.

I recently learned there's really no such word as "Laotian", as people from Laos don't refer to themselves in such a manner.... It's an English construct.

Eh, same with "German" and "Japanese." Not uncommon.

On the original topic: Names and words are two different stories when it comes to pronunciation. If you're going to use French (or any non-Enlish) WORDS, I expect you to pronounce them correctly or assume you're a poser.

However, names I give more leeway, because people aren't attempting to USE words, they're simply referring to a place. When a Spanish speaker calls America "Ehmedica" it doesn't bother me. I don't feel like calling Mexico Meheeco all the time either.

[HashiriyaS14]

Eh, same with "German" and "Japanese." Not uncommon.

I'm not sure I see how this is the case with "Japanese".

"Japanese" is an English-language word denoting a person from Japan, it is not a word from a foreign language like "Paris" or "Ahmadinejad".

Additionally, there is essentially a literal Japanese translation of the word "Japanese", insomuch as you are referring to "a Japanese native". The romanization of this is "Nihon jin".

i.e. "Anata wa nihon jin desu ka" means "Are you Japanese?"

[barrigas14]

I say Israel and Mexico correctly, am I an elitist?

I'd find it pretty stupid if some was talking about America and mispronounced it.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I'm not sure I see how this is the case with "Japanese".

"Japanese" is an English-language word denoting a person from Japan

That's what I was referring to. That comment was a response to Greg's comment that "Laotian" is an English word for those people that they don't use themselves. German and Japanese are also English words for their people that they don't use themselves.

The rest of the post was a response to your original topic, though.

[smockers83]

I cring when someone pronounces Iran as "I- Ran" It is "E-Ran." With a little roll of the tongue on the "R." It is not a long 'A'.

Playing a little devil's advocate here. Now is that because you believe that natives of Iran who speak English say that and automatically think its the correct English pronunciation or because it could be their accent? Because the English language doesn't roll the r.

Do I have to start pronouncing Sweden Sveden now or call Finland Suomi instead out of respect?

[AZhitman]

I say Israel and Mexico correctly, am I an elitist?

I'd find it pretty stupid if some was talking about America and mispronounced it.

Such as 50% of the population in our beautiful state?

"Ahmeddeeca" is a mispronunciation.

The point is, BO sounds like he's pandering, and it's silly. He's SO terrified of offending someone, or being "wrong" on something irrelevant, that he over-does it.

Here's a hint for ya, BO: Practice up on some economic and foreign policy stuff. Learn to admit you're wrong on occasion. Quit apologizing for my country. And offend someone - It's not always a bad thing. But for God's sake, quit saying Pocky-stahn.

[Jesda]

I grew up eating it. Asian snacks FTW.