Copper 450ZX

[BlazingCopperZ]

Hey everyone,

I figured it was about time to finally post about my ride since it cranked up one the first attempt last weekend, much to my surprise. It is another Z32, which seems to be the most popular chassis for the swap, but maybe mine's different enough to not make a boring read.

Here is what it looked like when I bought it for next to nothing right around New Year's. It was in dire need of paint, and other than having a few dents the body was in pretty good shape. Originally I was just going to paint the car and rebuild the engine, but after a bit of trouble with an engine shop to machine it, (6 months) I figured I might as well put in something with a little more power without doing the TT swap. Here are a couple of pics after painting (my first paint job) which turned out to take MUCH longer than I expected, but wasn't that difficult. It has DuPont Chroma series paint ($470 gallon, ughh) with 4 coats of clear, wetsanded with 2000 grit and buffed. Pic above shows the car with the custom nose panel that I made, and the hood wasn't buffed at the time. Probably have to repaint the hood now with the VH, wish I would have decided to do the swap before painting. So for the VH related stuff. I went ahead and notched the crossmember to fit the headers, used 11 ga and 1/4" steel to fab up the new perches to use the Q's stock mounts.The oil pan is a rear sump setup, with it sitting down as far as possible. I made it with 1/4" flanges, 14 ga body, and the back part is 7 ga with a piece of 3/8" machined down to make it an integral gusset. I forgot to take picks of the trap door and baffle on the inside before mounting it. It holds about the same oil as the stocker does, and allows the motor to sit with the headers about 1/4" below the frame rails.The goofy looking boss on the side of the pan is for the dipstick (it is hollow out, btw) to be mounted in the proper place. I had to bend the upper mount a little, along with adding a little more curve to the dipstick tube, but it looks like it was meant to be there in the first place.

If anyone is interested in the oilpan, I can post some drawings and a rendering. Updates to follow

- Garrett
Modified by BlazingCopperZ at 2:01 PM 11/18/2009

[BlazingCopperZ]

Good, the pics did work

So here is a couple of pics of the radiator. I had a local race shop build it for me. It has a built in oil cooler on the side, with -10AN fittings welded on. I went ahead and followed T45's advise and had it made short enough to fit under the headlight buckets. The tabs on the bottom fit into the stock rubber mounts, and push it forward about 1 1/4" to make more room for the fans. It is really made well, wish I could tig weld Al like that. All of the inlets and outlets ended up where they are supposed to be. There ended up being enough room to put a 10" and 12" electric fans as pullers, just haven't installed them yet. While at it, the shop welded on AN fittings to the oil filter tree outlets, which I cleaned up and bead blasted.The radiator ended up being a screaming good deal, about the same cost as a Koyo TT radiator. So far it seems the most expensive thing is swapping out the auto to a "real" transmission, why anyone ever bought one with an auto... shifting gears hear, for the P/S setup, ended up using a Maxima pulley, combining the brackets for the Q and the Z, and made a new rear mount to keep it rigid. The A/C compressor ends up hitting the sway bar before the pump does, so I guess it is close enough to the engine. The pics are before I painted everything. Ended up brazing on steel AN fittings to the high pressure lines and used a short braided line for P/S to connect them. The low pressure side is just regular hose, temporarily have it placed between the master cylinder and the throttle body.

So that's all I have for now, hopefully will get it road worthy over Thanksgiving vacation.

[Chrispy300]

Wow, good work! Will definately be a nice one when it's complete!

[Mettler]

Nice project, paintjob looks fantastic _b

[elwesso]

what did you do for your adapter plate, and where did you get the screws mounting the plate to the engine?

[hannibal]

Are those stock headers with the shields removed?? Never seen a pic of them...

[Chrispy300]

Are those stock headers with the shields removed?? Never seen a pic of them...

Yep, that's them... They have horrible overlaps between the runners off the heads and the main 'body' of the header. I cut a set up when making my new headers.

[Wes M]

Wow nice work! Everything looks so clean!

No doubt more than just a few hours spent so far but I think you've got the worst of it behind you!

Keep up the work (and the photos)

which reminds me, my thread is overdue an update...

[sacrifise8]

I need to know about how long it took you to fab those mounts and oil pan. also, any measurements would be great. and did you have to modify the oil pick up tube?

[BlazingCopperZ]

Thanks for the comments. To answer a couple of questions:

what did you do for your adapter plate, and where did you get the screws mounting the plate to the engine?

Since the Z32 trans bolts are M10 x 1.5, I don't think there is any need to use the oddball M14 size for strength reasons. The block has threaded inserts http://www.mcmaster.com/#90245a175/=4k77vz which I like a lot better than HeliCoils since the little tab gets pressed into the threads. That allowed an easy to get M10 x 1.5 x 30mm FHCS to be used. I like your adapter design, but I went a step further and made mine to attach to the structural oil pan with 3 M8 FHCS since my oil pan doesn't allow the stock gussets to work. If I wasn't building so much stuff already, I probably would have just bought yours and been done a whole lot quicker. BTW, I am eventually going to get the upgraded ECU, but figured it would be better to make sure it runs first with the one I got for $25. Would be a shame to let the smoke out of a reprogrammed one

Wow nice work! Everything looks so clean!

No doubt more than just a few hours spent so far but I think you've got the worst of it behind you!

Keep up the work (and the photos)

which reminds me, my thread is overdue an update...

Thanks, some of the pics are when I was test fitting the engine and accessories before I spent forever cleaning and painting, looks even better now.

I need to know about how long it took you to fab those mounts and oil pan. also, any measurements would be great. and did you have to modify the oil pick up tube?

I am keeping a log for all of the time spent on the car (nerdy engineer in me), but I don't have it with me now. The hours spent building are WAY more than you think they will be when you start. I am sure I have over 10 hours just in welding and grinding the oil pan itself. Keep in mind that all of the joints are an open butt weld, so the weld fills up the corner, then is ground back down and hit with a scotch-brite to blend it into the sheetmetal. If I wasn't so picky and just did a standard weld without grinding, it probably would take half of the time. Here is a drawing and rendering of the oilpan design. I did end up adding another baffle on top rear of the sump, copying the stock one. The pick up tube is a combination of the VH and the VG30's, along with a short straight section of 7/8' tubing, which is only like .010" off in diameter as the stock is. It is mounted as close to the engine as possible, which makes one of the mounting bolts a royal pain to put back in. The oil pan nearly touches the pickup tube itself. I have about 3/8" gap between the pickup and the bottom of the pan.

For the engine mounts, I put the early stage oil pan on and gave about 1/4" clearance between the steering rack and the pan, the eighth picture down shoes the test fit. I has 1/4" steel that makes a T shape, then is triangulated with 11 ga give some strength a make it look better.

[Tixmaster]

I love your progress so far. So your using the stock headers? thats awesome. so the only things you have to fab up yourself are the 1.engine mounts/crossmember perches (love what you did here btw)2. the oil pan/modded oil pickup (mind posting a higher res picture of your oil pan assembly blueprint so i can see the measurements?)3. PS pump bracket4. Trans adapter plate5. Custom Rad? (mind posting specs on it?)

do you plan on selling copies of your engine mounts that use the stock q45 mounts? and also whats your plan for the hood? hood scoop? good luck i am hoping you post many more pictures and get it running over thanksgiving!

[BlazingCopperZ]

Yep, the headers are the stock ones. I did what everyone else did and cut the flanges off the Z and welded them on to the VH. The passenger side was a little more trouble as it needs to be pushed up higher than the tube radius allows. Ended welding it with a couple of passes and grind the inside inner radius to keep from decreasing the area. I will post a bigger pic of the oilpan along with a drawing I made for the radiator tomorrow after work (don't have SolidWorks on my laptop). It might be possible to bulge the hood like Craigstoyz did, don't really know until the hood is back on. I don't plan on selling any of the parts, but will post some more drawings and pics.

[BlazingCopperZ]

Changing subjects here, I am pretty comfortable with all of the mechanical stuff, but I am an idiot when it comes to wiring. Here is a couple of questions for those who have completed the swap:

1. The p/s line pressure sensor wiring doesn't make sense. The Z wiring diagram has the black wire coming from the relay box on the fender, and the green wire going to the ECU (via F25). The VH has the black/red? wire going from the ECU to the sensor with the green/red wire coming back to F52. The wiring diagram that Nick made has the green wire connecting to the green/red wire, which would just make a loop and leave the black wire unconnected. Can I connect the black wire from the ECU to the green wire without frying anything?

2. From what I have read the throttle position sensor (gray plug) is the important one, while the thottle position switch (black) is used for the the auto trans. Can I delete this plug completely or is it needed for anything? Reason for asking is the wiring harness I am using did not come with the engine and had all of the extra TC and 4WS crap with it. I got a bit overzealous when first removing all of the unneeded stuff and managed to remove the black connector from the harness. I can hook it back up again, but seemed to have misplaced the resistor that is shown on the factory wiring diagram,

Any info would be much appreciated.

[Wes M]

I like your adapter design, but I went a step further and made mine to attach to the structural oil pan with 3 M8 FHCS since my oil pan doesn't allow the stock gussets to work.

Haha yup I did that too - just didn't feel safe with only half of the radius of the bellhousing bolted on.

The pick up tube is a combination of the VH and the VG30's, along with a short straight section of 7/8' tubing, which is only like .010" off in diameter as the stock is. It is mounted as close to the engine as possible, which makes one of the mounting bolts a royal pain to put back in. The oil pan nearly touches the pickup tube itself. I have about 3/8" gap between the pickup and the bottom of the pan.

I know exactly what you mean about the mounting bolt.. I had finished welding up the pickup, went to fit it and then realised I couldn't get the bolt through the hole. Had to cut the flange off, put the bolt in and weld it up again.

How did you decide on the 3/8" gap between the pickup and pan? Mine would probably be less than half that.

Did you do any checks to make sure there were no pinholes or leaks in your pickup? I'm thinking because of the length to draw oil up, even the smallest of leaks would let a lot of air into the oil system

[BlazingCopperZ]

Here is a higher resolution drawing for the oil pan, along with a radiator drawing that I sent to the race shop. The radiator critical dimensions were kept, but there are a few things that ended up being slightly different than the drawing.

How did you decide on the 3/8" gap between the pickup and pan? Mine would probably be less than half that.

Did you do any checks to make sure there were no pinholes or leaks in your pickup? I'm thinking because of the length to draw oil up, even the smallest of leaks would let a lot of air into the oil system

I researched different aftermarket oil pan manufacturers, the average acceptable range was from 5/16" to 3/8" from the bottom of the pickup to the oil pan. It was kind of awkward to measure but ended up being in that range. I wish I would have gone a step further and done pressure tested the pickup tube, but instead just capped off one end and filled it up with water and filled any pinholes.

Does anyone have an answer to the TPS or pressure switch question?

[Chrispy300]

I researched different aftermarket oil pan manufacturers, the average acceptable range was from 5/16" to 3/8" from the bottom of the pickup to the oil pan. It was kind of awkward to measure but ended up being in that range. I wish I would have gone a step further and done pressure tested the pickup tube, but instead just capped off one end and filled it up with water and filled any pinholes.

Does anyone have an answer to the TPS or pressure switch question?

I'm running about 3/8" from the bottom to the pickup too. The Z32 standard distance is stupidly close, this has caused a few dead engines over here in Oz when the sump gets dented.

As for the TPS switch I left mine there with all the wiring. I know in the Z32 the TPS switch does something other than just a signal for the auto.

Can't comment on the PS stuff, I chucked all that in the bin and have gone for manual steering

[Wes M]

Changing subjects here, I am pretty comfortable with all of the mechanical stuff, but I am an idiot when it comes to wiring. Here is a couple of questions for those who have completed the swap:

1. The p/s line pressure sensor wiring doesn't make sense. The Z wiring diagram has the black wire coming from the relay box on the fender, and the green wire going to the ECU (via F25). The VH has the black/red? wire going from the ECU to the sensor with the green/red wire coming back to F52. The wiring diagram that Nick made has the green wire connecting to the green/red wire, which would just make a loop and leave the black wire unconnected. Can I connect the black wire from the ECU to the green wire without frying anything?

2. From what I have read the throttle position sensor (gray plug) is the important one, while the thottle position switch (black) is used for the the auto trans. Can I delete this plug completely or is it needed for anything? Reason for asking is the wiring harness I am using did not come with the engine and had all of the extra TC and 4WS crap with it. I got a bit overzealous when first removing all of the unneeded stuff and managed to remove the black connector from the harness. I can hook it back up again, but seemed to have misplaced the resistor that is shown on the factory wiring diagram,

Any info would be much appreciated.

Hi BCZ, I can't help with the PS question as Im not running my engine in a Z.. As for the TP switch, I was under the impression that this also served to tell the ECU to enter into its Idle loop. I only have the wiring diag for the ECCS if you post a copy of the diagram you're working with showing the resistor then I can see if we're talking about the same thing.

-Wes

[Steve Lloyd]

What did you use for the trap doors that keep the oil in the sump area?? I am starting my own oil pan, but am completely new to this stuff. Any help or advice would be awesome.

[kingkilburn]

I would think something along the lines of a piano hinge with a plate on one side to stop it from going backwards would be ideal.

[BlazingCopperZ]

Hi BCZ, I can't help with the PS question as Im not running my engine in a Z.. As for the TP switch, I was under the impression that this also served to tell the ECU to enter into its Idle loop. I only have the wiring diag for the ECCS if you post a copy of the diagram you're working with showing the resistor then I can see if we're talking about the same thing.-Wes

Thanks Wes. I used the wiring document that npez made, I saved it so I am not sure what page it is posted on this forum. However, the resistor is shown on the 95 FSM that goes between the black wire and the ECU. It doesn't have a value on it that I can see, so I am not sure how many ohms it is. I guess I need to stare at the schematics a little longer and try to decipher something.

What did you use for the trap doors that keep the oil in the sump area?? I am starting my own oil pan, but am completely new to this stuff. Any help or advice would be awesome.

Similar to what kinkilburn said, the pan has a baffle on the sides and has a rectangle cut out of it. I welded a small piece of 16 ga to the hinge to make on leg longer, and welded that to the baffle. The door has about a 1/8" overlap so it won't swing past the baffle. The doors are roughly 1 1/2" tall and 2 1/2" long. Right above the hinge, there are a couple of holes as an overflow if the center section fills up to quickly. The drawing shows it with hidden lines, but if you can see it if you look close.

[BlazingCopperZ]

Here is a bit of an update. Took the car out for its maiden voyage last Saturday, so-so results. Checked the ecu for codes after the short drive and found 33 and 34. Dug under the manifold to find out that one of the knock sensors is bad, not so sure about the driver's side O2 sensor yet.

So I finally found the resistor that got cut off when I started the wiring, what through me off more than anything is that the throttle position switch had a third red wire that is not shown in the FSM. Finally dawned on me (duh) that the wide open position portion of the switch (red wire) isn't used for anything, only the closed position portion is used for the idle loop like Wes said a few posts ago. Also noticed that the idle didn't change when unplugging the IACV, traced it back again to the closed throttle position switch, which is dead of course. Get to go junkyard diving tomorrow to find a "new" TPS and a couple of other small stuff.

BTW, what do the horns sound like from the Q45? I think I am going to replace the sissy sounding stock horns with something that won't get laughed at, maybe the Q's are plug in with the same one wire........

- Garrett

[Steve Lloyd]

Would you be willing to make another pan and pickup tube???

[Loch Ness]

where are you at in Georgia[BlazingCopperZ] the 450zxtt is running and in Ggeorgia as of right now wanna come and see ur Z if possible

[BlazingCopperZ]

Hey everybody, haven't had much time to work on the Z until recently since I have to drive 2 hrs to get to the folks house where the Z stays. I guess that's what you get when living in an apartment complex where they wouldn't appreciate a car in several pieces in the parking lot. Loch Ness, I would really like to see the 450ZXTT sometime, especially when I can start driving my car out to Marietta where I work.

So here are the updates. I was having some oil pressure issues over Christmas, ended up getting a new pressure sending unit since the stocker was reading all over the place, all is kosher now. Finally mounted the electric fans and Painless thermoswitch to the radiator. I had to trim a little off one of the mounting tabs, but was able to fit one ten and one twelve inch fans as pullers. There is about 1/4" clearance between the fans (2 5/8" thick at the motor) and the alternator belt due to the radiator being pushed under the headlight buckets, so all is good

All of the wiring issues are taken care of, ended up not connecting the high pressure switch from the power steering since there are no noticeable problems when the steering is turned at idle. I am not quite done with wrapping the harness, but re-routed a few wires to keep from crossing the front of the engine, looks a lot better. The last pictures show my mockup version of the radiator bracket/airflow diverter, new one will probably be painted copper.















Next on the to-do list is exhaust, the stock Z exhaust sounds pathetic, looking into having a local bending company to bend everything in 304SS, which I can weld up, should be better than paying out the wazoo for a whole SS system with cats.

Well that's all folks for now.

-Garrett

[WYT R1CE]

Possible to get a template copy of the adapter or the CAD?

[BlazingCopperZ]

Possible to get a template copy of the adapter or the CAD?

Just buy the one that Wes makes, it is worth it unless you work at a machine shop. The adapter plate is the one thing that I didn't draw up in SolidWorks. I made mine based on the stock spacer piece for the hole pattern on the engine and used a transfer punch for the transmission holes. The input shaft can be used to locate the tranny, make sure to center the input shaft and the crankshaft, as it has about +/- 0.015" of deflection. You will have major problems if everything doesn't line up correctly, so it is really easier just to buy one that is proven to work.

-Garrett

[maxnix]

I'm running about 3/8" from the bottom to the pickup too. The Z32 standard distance is stupidly close, this has caused a few dead engines over here in Oz when the sump gets dented.

Perhaps, but it also comabats starvation under G loads and cavitation.

Everything is a trade off.

[Z32 Ver.2ptGood]

Any chance I could get the oil pan flange CAD file?

[91z]

Any new updates?

[craigztoyz]

Any chance I could get the oil pan flange CAD file?

Me too, please.


Can you please give info on your adapter plate, and what parts you are using. Looks alot like the ones I made. 1/2" thick, full bell shaved 1/2 to counter.


Thanx