Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend?
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NISSAN_GUY_87
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:42 pm
- Car: 1992 S13 240sx Coupe & 1987 Nissan Hardbody Minitruck
Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend?
Ok, so I have searched around in the archives here on NICO, and I have 2 questions left unanswered. 1. Pulling the clutch fan, does it give you any real, proven gain on a stock KA? 2. Will pulling the clutch fan and wiring the AC fan to a switch and using it equal the cooling properties of the clutch fan? I noticed in the archives the answers to these questions were really 50/50. Some say it helps gain power, others disagree. Some say the AC fan will cool the radiator just fine, some disagree. So what is the verdict, it is an easy mod, would take only maybe an hour at most, will it unlock any real power? Will the AC fan cool the motor? Is it even worth it? Are there any dyno results anywhere from such an experiment? I am just willing to bet that most of my comments on this subject will be 50/50. I guess it all depends on your car, the condition of your motor, how well it runs, how you drive it, what your driving conditions are, you know, the usual variables... Any help NICO?
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:: orion ::
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 4:40 pm
- Car: '96 240SX, with KA-T @ 12psi...
- Contact:
Yes, it's worth doing...
No, the OEM e-fan does not move as much air.
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But, the stock electrical fan will keep the car cool UNLESS you're stuck in traffic in 90* heat with the A/C on...that's the only time mine started to get warm. And don't rely on your stock temp gauge...it's a 3-position switch, NOT a full sweep gauge.
So remove the clutch fan, wire the aux fan to be on with the key, and see if it works for you...in a cooler climate, you'll be fine. Here in FL, when I had mine wired like that...I would just put the clutch fan back on for the summer months.
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You best bet is to swap to Altima dual e-fans...they move a ton of air (more than the aftermarket SPAL, FAL, brand-XXX, whover...) and are *almost* a perfect fit (minor trimming required).
- Brian
No, the OEM e-fan does not move as much air.
...
But, the stock electrical fan will keep the car cool UNLESS you're stuck in traffic in 90* heat with the A/C on...that's the only time mine started to get warm. And don't rely on your stock temp gauge...it's a 3-position switch, NOT a full sweep gauge.
So remove the clutch fan, wire the aux fan to be on with the key, and see if it works for you...in a cooler climate, you'll be fine. Here in FL, when I had mine wired like that...I would just put the clutch fan back on for the summer months.
...
You best bet is to swap to Altima dual e-fans...they move a ton of air (more than the aftermarket SPAL, FAL, brand-XXX, whover...) and are *almost* a perfect fit (minor trimming required).
- Brian
Re: (:: orion ::)
what year of altima?
Re: Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend? (NISSAN_GUY_87)
Simply only having the a/c fan w/ no clutch or no elec fan is just plain stupid imho. You want to see a really easy test? Go ahead and unhook the clutch fan & wire the a/c fan directly to the ignition. Turn on the car & let it idle in the 20-30 minute test. I'm almost positive it will overheat w/in the first 10-15 minutes w/ your stock radiator & 50/50 mix.
The a/c fan was meant to complement to existing clutch fan, it's much tinier.
If you are trying to free up hp, why not just remove the clutch fan & put in at least another elec fan, like one from a ford taurus or altima (I believe between 93-97 or so) - this will allow you to take out the a/c fan also, since these are dual fans. Those fit w/ basically no mods at all & flow great. If you hook them up right, then you will for sure gain power/response - may not be very noticeable, but it's there). Of course, they should be wired correctly to at least some sort of thermostatic controller.
Wiring elec fan directly to ignition also has a bunch of issues attached to it. Elec fans were not meant to be run all the time. Most of the "performance gains" are also cancelled out if you run them all the time. My car wouldn't even warm up if I had my altimas running - combined w/ my koyo & 80/20 mix). Search for it for more details.
The a/c fan was meant to complement to existing clutch fan, it's much tinier.
If you are trying to free up hp, why not just remove the clutch fan & put in at least another elec fan, like one from a ford taurus or altima (I believe between 93-97 or so) - this will allow you to take out the a/c fan also, since these are dual fans. Those fit w/ basically no mods at all & flow great. If you hook them up right, then you will for sure gain power/response - may not be very noticeable, but it's there). Of course, they should be wired correctly to at least some sort of thermostatic controller.
Wiring elec fan directly to ignition also has a bunch of issues attached to it. Elec fans were not meant to be run all the time. Most of the "performance gains" are also cancelled out if you run them all the time. My car wouldn't even warm up if I had my altimas running - combined w/ my koyo & 80/20 mix). Search for it for more details.
Re: Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend? (brokeAs240sx)
what about the 98-01 fan from altima? they look beefier than the 93-97 ones
Re: Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend? (brokeAs240sx)
can you tell me more about this? what performance loss do you speak of? also, since thermotstat opens around 76C, cooled coolant can not under a cold engine prior to this point so why would it prevent an engine from warming up?brokeAs240sx wrote:Wiring elec fan directly to ignition also has a bunch of issues attached to it. Elec fans were not meant to be run all the time. Most of the "performance gains" are also cancelled out if you run them all the time. My car wouldn't even warm up if I had my altimas running - combined w/ my koyo & 80/20 mix). Search for it for more details.
Re: Cooling?Performance?Urban Legend? (Loveless)
From the performance loss perspective:
Removing the clutch fan free's up lost hp, etc.
However, if you wire electric fans to ignition, they are now always on, which increases load on the alternator - I don't know about aftermarket ones, but my altimas took quite a bit to power. -> hp gained is now lost, basically more or less.
The purpose of changing to electric fans is that your don't need fans running all the time. The hp benefit comes in when they are off.
If you look on altimas, or any car that has electric fans - they shouldn't be running all the time. If you do let them run all the time, they will break down much faster - a lot of members on zilvia & here have complained about elec fans - however, most of these complaints of the fans breaking was because they had them wired to ignition - some never have this problem though, so it may have to do w/ how long/often you drive w/ fans running, iono.
From the cooling perspective:Perhaps I was using the wrong terminology. This is what I noticed:
Plug in my fans (both wired to one - so both fans on the altima were on) to ignition.
Car starts. Water temp gauge will not move up past 1/5-1/4 of the gauge. Car smells rich all the time, probably since it's stuck in "cold mode". Especially once you get on the freeway, temp goes down even more - this was mostly the radiator capabilities I believe.
In any case. Tried the same test w/ the fans off -> temp rises like it should. I was thinking I could have a thermostat leak (new thermostat), but it would have to be very miniscule or the car wouldn't warm up at all, even w/ the fans off -> which means the fans did have some effect on this.
Maybe, and I'm just speaking out of my *** here, the coolant from the lower radiator hose flows back and forth between the radiator and water pump - this way there wouldn't be a dramatic difference in temperature between the fluid in the radiator and the fluid in the engine block, but at a much slower pace than if the upper radiator hose started flowing. With that theory then, it would make sense that the altima fans could have flowed so well, that it kept the engine coolant from getting warm enough.
Removing the clutch fan free's up lost hp, etc.
However, if you wire electric fans to ignition, they are now always on, which increases load on the alternator - I don't know about aftermarket ones, but my altimas took quite a bit to power. -> hp gained is now lost, basically more or less.
The purpose of changing to electric fans is that your don't need fans running all the time. The hp benefit comes in when they are off.
If you look on altimas, or any car that has electric fans - they shouldn't be running all the time. If you do let them run all the time, they will break down much faster - a lot of members on zilvia & here have complained about elec fans - however, most of these complaints of the fans breaking was because they had them wired to ignition - some never have this problem though, so it may have to do w/ how long/often you drive w/ fans running, iono.
From the cooling perspective:Perhaps I was using the wrong terminology. This is what I noticed:
Plug in my fans (both wired to one - so both fans on the altima were on) to ignition.
Car starts. Water temp gauge will not move up past 1/5-1/4 of the gauge. Car smells rich all the time, probably since it's stuck in "cold mode". Especially once you get on the freeway, temp goes down even more - this was mostly the radiator capabilities I believe.
In any case. Tried the same test w/ the fans off -> temp rises like it should. I was thinking I could have a thermostat leak (new thermostat), but it would have to be very miniscule or the car wouldn't warm up at all, even w/ the fans off -> which means the fans did have some effect on this.
Maybe, and I'm just speaking out of my *** here, the coolant from the lower radiator hose flows back and forth between the radiator and water pump - this way there wouldn't be a dramatic difference in temperature between the fluid in the radiator and the fluid in the engine block, but at a much slower pace than if the upper radiator hose started flowing. With that theory then, it would make sense that the altima fans could have flowed so well, that it kept the engine coolant from getting warm enough.
stock gauge will not show temp increase in the accuracy you need to see the difference with the fan on and off, but if you use a scanner or an accurate gauge, you will see a difference. the ecu retards timing 1 degree for every 5 degrees over normal opperating temp, so removing the fan could cause you to loose power.