Coolant / Antifreeze choice for various Nissan engines?

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Q451990
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On Q45Tech's recomendation, I have been using 40% Dex Cool and 60% distilled water in the Q for the last 10 years or so. I also used this in the '97 Hardbody before I sold it. No cooling issues, no problems that I'm aware of. So now I'm ready to flush the G and Frontier's cooling systems, and I'm confused.

From my '04 Frontier owner's manual:

Quote » When adding or replacing coolant, be sure to use only a Genuine NISSAN Long Life Anti-freeze Coolant (green) or equivalent with the proper mixture ratio of 50% anti-freeze and 50% demineralized or distilled water. The use of other types of coolant solutions or coolant colors, such as orange, may damage the engine cooling system[/quote]

My '05 G35 owner's manual:

Quote »When adding or replacing coolant, be sure to use only a Genuine Nissan Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant or equivalent with the proper mixture ratio of 50% anti-freeze and 50% demineralized / distilled water. The use of other types of engine coolant may damage the engine cooling system[/quote]So they left the "such as orange" warning out on the G, but it's otherwise similar. Is there a difference in the gaskets used, or the fact that the truck has the iron block/aluminum head combination? (I have the KA24DE) Is there a readily available coolant in the aftermarket that is a true equivalent to the Nissan coolant? Apparently Nissan now has a new blue long life coolant that's being used as a factory fill in some cars, but I'm not sure if it's available to the dealerships yet. I know Zerex has a "Asian vehicle formula" but it only comes premixed, which I would like to avoid since I'm not pulling the block plugs. I prefer multiple flushes with distilled water... 6 or 8 gallons of distilled water (fill, heat up, drain and repeat), followed by adding the appropriate coolant to the system.

I'd love to hear everyone's opinion...

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 1:50 PM 2/2/2010


qship96
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I have been using Peak Global Lifetime coolant, which is a NON 2EHA type coolant. {2EHA is the chemical in dexcool that some people fear as it is a plasticizer, and what many consider to be the cause of all the GM gasket issues}

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Q45tech wrote:COOLING SYSTEMAntifreeze a short excerpt the whole is well worth What kinds of coolants are out there? Aside from the limited sale of propylene glycol to environmentalists, it's ethylene glycol... about 93% ethylene glycol, that is, plus water and specific rust and corrosion inhibitors. Here's a rundown: Conventional American coolant (green or gold) contains silicates (a long-used aluminum corrosion inhibitor) and other inhibitors. Silicates work quickly to protect aluminum, but also are depleted relatively quickly in service. They're also somewhat abrasive (being based on silicon-sand), so they've been implicated in water pump seal wear. Advocates say tests show silicates last longer than was commonly believed. And with the latest seal materials, they actually do a better job of protecting the water pump, because they both resist cavitation erosion-corrosion and "repair" any that occurs. OAT coolant (orange or pink) conhttp://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/081999_11.htmltains no silicates and no phosphates. It's a blend of two or more organic acids, a specific class of inhibitors with slow-acting, long-life properties. Texaco's Havoline Dextron-Cool (also sold under the Goodwrench label by GM) was the first example. Prestone and Peak also have introduced OAT coolants that are chemically compatible with Dextron-Cool. Conventional Japanese coolant (green or red) contains no silicates, but has a heavy dose of phosphates and other inhibitors, including a modest amount of one or two organic acids. Conventional European coolant (blue or yellow) contains a low dose of silicates and nophosphates, but does include other inhibitors, including one organic acid. Hybrid European coolant (blue or green) is similar to conventional European, but with a much greater dose of organic acids. It's a balanced formula designed to have the silicates provide the primary protection for the aluminum, then allow the organic acids to provide long-term protection. Hybrid American coolant (green or orange) contains a moderate dose of silicates, plus a blend of organic acids.

2897 Now all Infiniti have aluminum heads and radiators plus either a Iron or an Aluminum block depending on the model. When an engine is composed of different materials corrosion is more of a problem but all aluminum is not the same since different alloys [95%aluminum 5% other metals] are used in different places. All antifreeze contains additives to prevent this corrosion which get used up with time. Some last 15,000 miles some last 50,000 miles depending on the product and the water that is used to dilute them and engine/radiator construction. Tap water varies by location as to hardness and what chemicals are added to make it clear and safe looking, spring water may be much worse but looks good. Real distilled water contains nothing but water hopefully! In the Q a metal pipe located on the driver’s side engine front between two radiator hoses is the designed in weak link. It corrodes first inside telling you you’re not doing something right. When ever the lower radiator hose is changed look inside this pipe for corrosion. Anyone who has replaced the original fill distilled water with any amount of tap water will have some plus any Antifreeze that has not been changed every 30,000 miles will have some. Most of you will have a lot showing the need for remedial action or a radiator - water pump is in your future. Please don't believe the hype about coolant lasting forever again just enough to get through the warranty is fine with Nissan otherwise the replacement radiator people would be out of work. Ask your shop if they use distilled water or just tap water. If they don't bring them 2.5 gallons ($2.50) and make them use it. It's not a cure for bad practices but it's a start. Previous posts have discussed the different additives in Red/Orange/Green Antifreeze and which you should use for which engine type to maximize component life.

3424 Remember that the thermostat just begins to open at 174F and is fully open at 195F, when 70F outside the water flowing into the radiator should be about 190F but on the outlet side it should be 170F or less on a Q there is a 195F thermoswitch which should turn on auxiliary fan at this temp. It is not unusual for a Q to provide 210F radiator inlet water in summer with AC on. As I have said a hundred times the in radiator AT cooler is a heater to warm up AT fluid to at least 175F when it's 20F outside. If it's 90F outside and 220F in radiator that will be the temp of ATF flow back to AT which will easily heat the ATF to 250F. Even my external cooler only system heats Mobil 1 ATF to 200F [pan temp]in hottest summer. The worst case is a slow [1700 rpm = 50mph] 4th gear up hill pull with AC on at 100F. [use 3rd to decrease temp]. This is why ATF gets fried in Summer. Two methods new in Spring or get bad out in Fall or both. Any temp over 240F has already warped metal seals even 20 minutes worth.

Prestone cooling flush is excellent and I use it often in my car, at the shop we use BG Flush. You can leave the Prestone in all day and flush in afternoon as long as the radiator doesn't get cold as the dissolved minerals will precipitate out in cold water. Always used distilled water as the final 50/50 mix with AF [orange red green extended life type].

silkysmoothyjud
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Prestone 50/50...Lets see how long the second autozone water pump lasts!!!OEM water pump 14 yearsautozone 1 and 3/4 years...gotta flush it one way or the other!

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what is the radiator composition? full OAT not reco'd for copper/brass (although i believe the heater cores are brass in our cars).I have used both gold (hOAT) and orange in the KA24DE with no issues. both have aftermarket alum/plastic rads.i'm running gold right now in the 95 active which has a csf 2-row copper brass.although i have had no problems per se with the csf, it does seem to run a bit hotter on the consult than the hamburger alum/plastic. at some point i will likely ditch that radiator for an alum/plactic and go orange.

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Paul,

Can you link me to the thread with that Q45Tech quote? I would like to read the whole article that he's refrencing if it's still available.

Heath

qship96
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I have the CSF alum/plastic in my Q, coming up on 3 years- so far so good.

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Q451990
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Here is a link to the coolant article that Q45Tech referenced... It's over 10 years old but it's a good read none the less.

http://www.taligentx.com/passa...l.pdf

So from reading that, it appears that "Traditional Japanese" coolant is silicate free, but also contains a heavy dose of phospates, while Dex-Cool is silicate free but also phosphate free.

So what do the phosphates do, and is the lack of them significant in certain Nissan engines - particularly in iron block/aluminum head ones?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy OEM Nissan coolant for the G for warranty purposes, but I'm still in the air on which one I'll use in the truck.

Heath

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here is the quotation with a few edits including the link.

COOLING SYSTEM Antifreeze

a short excerpt the whole is well worth What kinds of coolants are out there? Aside from the limited sale of propylene glycol to environmentalists, it's ethylene glycol... about 93% ethylene glycol, that is, plus water and specific rust and corrosion inhibitors. Here's a rundown: Conventional American coolant (green or gold) contains silicates (a long-used aluminum corrosion inhibitor) and other inhibitors. Silicates work quickly to protect aluminum, but also are depleted relatively quickly in service. They're also somewhat abrasive (being based on silicon-sand), so they've been implicated in water pump seal wear. Advocates say tests show silicates last longer than was commonly believed. And with the latest seal materials, they actually do a better job of protecting the water pump, because they both resist cavitation erosion-corrosion and "repair" any that occurs. OAT coolant (orange or pink) contains no silicates and no phosphates. It's a blend of two or more organic acids, a specific class of inhibitors with slow-acting, long-life properties. Texaco's Havoline Dextron-Cool (also sold under the Goodwrench label by GM) was the first example. Prestone and Peak also have introduced OAT coolants that are chemically compatible with Dextron-Cool.

Read Keeping It Cool

Conventional Japanese coolant (green or red) contains no silicates, but has a heavy dose of phosphates and other inhibitors, including a modest amount of one or two organic acids.

Conventional European coolant (blue or yellow) contains a low dose of silicates and no phosphates, but does include other inhibitors, including one organic acid. Hybrid European coolant (blue or green) is similar to conventional European, but with a much greater dose of organic acids. It's a balanced formula designed to have the silicates provide the primary protection for the aluminum, then allow the organic acids to provide long-term protection.

Hybrid American coolant (green or orange) contains a moderate dose of silicates, plus a blend of organic acids.

Now all Infiniti have aluminum heads and radiators plus either a Iron or an Aluminum block depending on the model. When an engine is composed of different materials corrosion is more of a problem but all aluminum is not the same since different alloys [95%aluminum 5% other metals] are used in different places. All antifreeze contains additives to prevent this corrosion which get used up with time. Some last 15,000 miles some last 50,000 miles depending on the product and the water that is used to dilute them and engine/radiator construction. Tap water varies by location as to hardness and what chemicals are added to make it clear and safe looking, spring water may be much worse but looks good. Real distilled water contains nothing but water hopefully! In the Q a metal pipe located on the driver’s side engine front between two radiator hoses is the designed in weak link. It corrodes first inside telling you you’re not doing something right. When ever the lower radiator hose is changed look inside this pipe for corrosion. Anyone who has replaced the original fill distilled water with any amount of tap water will have some plus any Antifreeze that has not been changed every 30,000 miles will have some. Most of you will have a lot showing the need for remedial action or a radiator - water pump is in your future. Please don't believe the hype about coolant lasting forever again just enough to get through the warranty is fine with Nissan otherwise the replacement radiator people would be out of work. Ask your shop if they use distilled water or just tap water. If they don't bring them 2.5 gallons ($2.50) and make them use it. It's not a cure for bad practices but it's a start. Previous posts have discussed the different additives in Red/Orange/Green Antifreeze and which you should use for which engine type to maximize component life.

Remember that the thermostat just begins to open at 174F and is fully open at 195F, when 70F outside the water flowing into the radiator should be about 190F but on the outlet side it should be 170F or less on a Q there is a 195F thermoswitch which should turn on auxiliary fan at this temp. It is not unusual for a Q to provide 210F radiator inlet water in summer with AC on. As I have said a hundred times the in radiator AT cooler is a heater to warm up AT fluid to at least 175F when it's 20F outside. If it's 90F outside and 220F in radiator that will be the temp of ATF flow back to AT which will easily heat the ATF to 250F. Even my external cooler only system heats Mobil 1 ATF to 200F [pan temp]in hottest summer. The worst case is a slow [1700 rpm = 50mph] 4th gear up hill pull with AC on at 100F. [use 3rd to decrease temp]. This is why ATF gets fried in Summer. Two methods new in Spring or get bad out in Fall or both. Any temp over 240F has already warped metal seals even 20 minutes worth.

Prestone cooling flush is excellent and I use it often in my car, at the shop we use BG Flush. You can leave the Prestone in all day and flush in afternoon as long as the radiator doesn't get cold as the dissolved minerals will precipitate out in cold water. Always used distilled water as the final 50/50 mix with AF [orange red green extended life type].


3Q Jay
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:23 pm
Car: 94 Q45a
95 Q45a (sold)
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01 B15 Sentra (Daughter's)
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1977 F-150 (460!)
Location: Florida Coast

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qship96 wrote:I have the CSF alum/plastic in my Q, coming up on 3 years- so far so good.
Qship, glad you got one that's working for you. My slam on csf (probably true for most singapore/indonesia/china units that are not hand picked) is that: 1. the copper brass version had multiple bent orifices when i got it. yes, i could straighten them, and have had no leaks to date, but the fitment is poor (had to massage the mounting posts, etc. 2. i also was shipped a csf single row plastic aluminum under the guise of a canadian built spectra premium that was spec'd with a thicker than stock 1.25 inch core (i specifically sought and ordered the spectra premium). the csf was made in singapore (could be wrong, but was definitely in that geographivcal region), and looked like crap: it had a 1/2 inch bow in the core. had i tried to mount it i have no doubt that the stresses on the seams would have soon propagated to leaks. also the quality of the aluminum looked oxidised, not sharp and clean. needless to say i got a full refund on that although my experience was not without aggrivation from that supplier who claimed they had the right to substitute a 'product of equal or greater quality'. of course when my request to have the data proving their claim provided was met with uhhhhhhhhhh...... the full refund did follow.

Heath, sorry to hijack. mixing one of your replies from an earlier thread, i think the zerex application chart is a generic one size fits all approach given the general trend toward full aluminum block/head combos in the mid 1990s. that said, i did elect to put gold instead of orange in the 94 altima (KA24DE).


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