Hi, I am a car novice. I drive only on city strees and highways. For about a year my car has made a progressively worse sound when I turn sharply. After a couple of visits to various mechanics, I believe the problem is my rear differential. I don't want to pay the multiple $1,000s to replace it. One mechanic suggested I remove the rear drive shaft, converting my AWD to a FWD. He indicated this will have little impact on my driving since I'm in a consistent climate (SoCal). He also said he'd keep the shaft and re-install it when I go to trade the car in.

I need some help! I am nervous to alter my car in this way but the grinding sound is unbearable, plus it's getting worse. I want to try and keep my car for as long as I can since it's paid off.

Advice wanted! Am I crazy to consider the conversion? Do you think it will put undue strain on the front of my car? Help!

lday8610 wrote:Hi, I am a car novice. I drive only on city strees and highways. For about a year my car has made a progressively worse sound when I turn sharply. After a couple of visits to various mechanics, I believe the problem is my rear differential. I don't want to pay the multiple $1,000s to replace it. One mechanic suggested I remove the rear drive shaft, converting my AWD to a FWD. He indicated this will have little impact on my driving since I'm in a consistent climate (SoCal). He also said he'd keep the shaft and re-install it when I go to trade the car in.

I need some help! I am nervous to alter my car in this way but the grinding sound is unbearable, plus it's getting worse. I want to try and keep my car for as long as I can since it's paid off.

Advice wanted! Am I crazy to consider the conversion? Do you think it will put undue strain on the front of my car? Help!

welcome to NICO.... and WOW! what an idea to start your membership with lol/jk
lets start with this: year/mileage?

This isnt a simple answer. before i begin my typical essay's regarding pro's & con's, let me ask you these questions:

you stated: "For about a year my car has made a progressively worse sound when I turn sharply."
your noises come from sharp turns? can you elaborate more? (could you make a video?)
are you driving straight, and then turning (say onto a side street), and then the noise is hear?
or are you standing still, you have your steering wheel turned to a turn, and then accelerate, and the noise appears?

describe this noise please?
grinding? distinct clicking? tires dragging on the ground? humming? chatter?
does the noise increase with speed?
does the noise ever happen while driving straight?

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i will leave you with this advice, and tech-tips:

1. the nissan rogue's drive shaft is spinning at all times. fwd, or awd - its spinning if the wheels are moving AT ALL TIMES.

2. your car is only AWD from 0mph-6mph. after that its all FWD.

3. your differential has an electronic clutch system that engages when you are 6mph or below / or the system detects wheel slip.
also, even if your doing 65mph, and the car is in 100% FWD since your rear wheels are moving, so is the differential. the system will be disengaged (the clutch separated and not sending power to the differential) but since your wheels are spinning, so is your differential gears.

4. if you remove the drive shaft, the differential will STILL be moving. so any noises there, will still be heard.

5. the electric clutch will need to be unplugged. doing so will alleviate the need to remove the drive shaft.

6. are you sure the sound is from the differential?

7. each wheel has a sensor for the traction control. it judges wheel spin/speed. if you remove remove the drive shaft, it could cause all sorts of problems with the VDC(traction control system) if your front tires slip on a puddle, or wet roads, and the system attempts to activate the differential clutch -> to engage the differential -> to engage AWD = and nothing happens -> the sensor detect mixed/wrong signals = you could end up getting a 50% cut in engine power to stop the car.

8. usually if you are hearing strange noises while turning its going to be your CVT joints. they have a loud CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK that is really irritating. but the differential could also be a culprit since each wheel spins at different speeds while turning. have you tried to simply change the fluid? many people neglect this simple cheap service, and the differentials have a hard time allowing the inside wheel to spin slower than needed.

Just removing the drive shaft, is probably not enough. I agree with ImStricken... you should investigate furthur.
These cars a full of electronics, that control just about every aspect of the vehicle. messing with it's fuctionality could seriously affect the entire car.

Have you taken it to a dealer, and inquired about this service bulletin?

Date Reported FEBRUARY 25 2010
NHTSA Reference #10033125
TSB Reference #NTB-10-029

Description: NISSAN: GRINDING/KNOCKING NOISE FROM REAR WHEN TURNING. THERE IS A GRINDING OR KNOCKING NOISE OR VIBRATION FROM THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE-WHEN MAKING WIDE TURNS; ON DRY ROADS; AT LOW SPEEDS (UNDER 20MPH). *PE UPDATED 11/02/11. *P

Repair Information for NHTSA #10033125

APPLIED VEHICLES: 2003-2012 Murano (Z50, Z51) AWD ONLY 2008-2012 Rogue (S35) AWD ONLY

IF YOU CONFIRM

There is a grinding or knocking noise or vibration from the rear of the vehicle:
^ when making wide turns

^ on dry roads

^ at low speeds (under 20 MPH)

ACTION

Remove the Rear Propeller Shaft and test drive the vehicle.

If the noise/vibration DOES NOT stop: This bulletin DOES NOT APPLY. Refer to ASIST for further diagnostic assistance.

If the noise/vibration DOES stop: Replace the Electrical Coupling Assy. (CPLG ASSY-ELEC) with the one from the Parts Information section of this bulletin.
^ Refer to the appropriate section in the Electronic Service Manual for removal and installation.

^ DO NOT replace the entire Rear Final Drive assembly for this incident, if it should occur.

are you sure your tires are all worn at an even level? with an AWD car's it makes a big difference as all 4 tires rotate at different speeds when turning.

This forum is so helpful. The Rogue is 2008/97,000 miles. ImStricken thank you for your helpful advice. The noise is only when I turn and as if it's under the backseats. It's loud even outside of the car and vibrates the back seats. It sounds like a grind vs. a click. Yes, my tires are worn evenly. I had the differential fluid replaced 2 weeks ago but alas it was not the answer. I thought it made my turns and the sound smoother for a bit but now it's all back to where it was - loud and worrisome.

Jcircuis, this bulletin is something I will call Nissan about. I have not yet taken it to the dealer as I don't like to get ripped off! But before I remove the drive shaft (which doesn't sound like the best idea) I will call Nissan, where I bought the car and inquire about this. The sound described in the bulletin matches my situation very closely if not exactly. The sound is the loudest when I go from standing still to a U-turn. The car grinds and vibrates, originating from the rear of the car.

Thank you so much.

you are very welcome.
(smart to stay away from the dealer! i agree 100% with that mentality. i dont go there unless its absolutely dire)

do you get an traction control/vdc/slip lights when slowly going in a circle?

does the noise/issue disappear if you go quickly in a circle?(above 10mph?)

wow like ImStricken said that is one crazy first post to the forum! Hopefully the bulletin jcircus posted is what's going on with your car and it gets fixed for free.

Hmm, I'm always surprised what a hate-on you guys have for your Nissan dealer, I'm of the opposite opinion in my area the dealer is great and competively priced, in some cases they're cheaper than other shops and they always send me coupons so I never pay full price - I wouldn't think of taking my car anywhere else!

In this case I think everyone is correct in pointing out that there is much more to this project than just removing some mechanical bits - all mechanical components are monitored and controlled by the computer (ECU, TCM), and if you remove these components it will undoutedly confuse the computer and perhaps disable your vehicle. In the short term I'd strongly advise against letting a mechanic/tech go in and remove your drive shaft,transfer case etc..

Most likely the noise you are hearing is not going to be a really big deal to diagnose and fix, I strongly recommend taking it to a Nissan service shop for diagnosis, they have access to the NIssan-specific service bulletins like the one attached above by jcircus, and they are very familiar with the details of your Rogue. My bet is they'll have the problem diagnosed pretty quickly, then at least you'll know what you're dealing with and you can review the options and make an informed decision. If the above bulletin is the source of your problem, it seems it is solved by simply replacing an electric coupler and you're good to go. Even if you have to pay a few hundred bucks, even up to say $1000 for the repair, at least it will be done right and NIssan gaurantees the work. At around 100,000 miles it's not surprising to have a repair like this to deal with, and likely you'll be on your way and good for many years.

The alternative is you can let an independant shop try to hack up your AWD, you'll probably pay around the same $500-1000 range or more but without a gaurantee that the results will be good. You could end up with nothing but problems, and you've eliminated a lot of value from your car - AWD will be worth more when you trade-in or sell it one day. Also, you may not even be able to ever trade your vehicle in once the dealership learns the car has been chopped up and meddled with fundamentally. The same goes for selling privately, you'd have to report that you did some major surgery to the car and that will probably scare a lot of buyers away.

Don't chop your car up and meddle with it, take it to Nissan and get it fixed properly and put this little bump behind you. Let us know how it turns out!

you could find a used rear differential, and install it for $500-$750 total. doesnt have to be the $1000
or go to a transmission repair shop and ask them if they can rebuild your rear differential. could be $500 or less.

i STRONGLY advice against removing the drive shaft as a final solution to your problem.
im sure its either the limited slip or the clutch thats causing the problem.

Okay thank you again everyone! I will update the thread accordingly. I do not plan to remove the drive shaft at this time and will schedule a service appt with Nissan at least for a diagnosis. I do think the sound is getting worse so I have to take care of this. As you can imagine with my miles, I drive a lot. I was hoping this would be an easy fix but it appears not to be the case. I am so glad I found this forum. I didn't know where to turn.

By the way, in response to Imstricken's inquiry: No services lights come on when I turn and the noise and vibration truly seem to occur no matter the MPH (under or over 10).

its probably the limited slip system in the differential itself.

it allows each wheel to spin at different speeds when turning(since the inside wheel turns less rotations when turning)

Update: I took the Rogue to the Nissan dealership as a precautionary measure. As predicted the grinding noise is coming from rear differential. The technician advised that the differential's problem was most likely caused due to continuous use of unevenly worn tires. I do not think I've ever replaced all four of my tires at the same time. Little did I know the importance of doing so for an AWD car. My front tires are good, back are very worn. Is that common knowledge that somehow slipped by me? That an AWD car must have evenly worn tires or eventually it will mess up the differential?

I will call around to mechanic shops for rebuilding differential quotes. As previously stated it doesn't seem removing the drive shaft is an option so now I need to either get rid of the Rogue or give her some serious love.

Thank you all again.

lday8610 wrote:Update: The technician advised that the differential's problem was most likely caused due to continuous use of unevenly worn tires. I do not think I've ever replaced all four of my tires at the same time. Little did I know the importance of doing so for an AWD car. My front tires are good, back are very worn.

yes in many cars, having unequal tires, or tires that wear differently and are not rotated to equalize the wear, the transaxle and differential, and transmission will begin to start seeing forced rotational wear. think of it this way: the smaller tires rotate at a faster speed = that will then cause the gears in the transfercase/differential/transmission to be forced earlier and harder into one another by the faster spinning tires.

this is currently being discussed in this thread: for-the-awd-owners-t563842.html
as i wrote there:

i had 2 tires 15% worn. (almost new)
i put on 2 new tires and guess what = the rear differential would clunk upon pulling off from 0mph.
i put one new tire on each axle, opposite from one another = no problems.

example: (n = new) (u = used)
n---u
u---n

it was on my rogue.
the differential would clunk. common person wouldnt pick up on it- but i did and once i did the tire rotation to equalize the wheel speed- it went away instantly.

It's your electrical converter in front of the rear differential. I've got the same problem. According to my Nissan dealer the part itself ranges from 850.00 to 900.00. Try to find a wrecked Rogue and get the part. That's what I'm trying to do!!!

Good luck.

Electrical Coupling Assy. (CPLG ASSY-ELEC)

My propeller shaft (rear drive shaft) fell off about 2 months ago and the only thing that has changed on my 2009 Rogue S AWD is the gas mileage and pep! I've driven through rain, dry pavement and nothing has changed. I'm planning on getting another one and putting it back on before winter though, but the gas money I'm saving is awesome!! Oh, and this car is sooooooooo much faster! Thanks, Scott.

Late to the party like always.
The pinion on a 2009 awd rogue lost a few teeth.
Good u tube video on removing the rear differential easily. No need to mess with either wheel,brake, axle etc.
Opened up the differential and removed the ring gear. Reinstalled the differential. Left off the driveshaft.
Vehicle runs just fine. No warning lights of any kind.
Do have a slight vibration when accelerating from a stop. Goes away at speed.
Thinking the missing driveshaft is causing an out of balance effect.I haven’t got around to reinstalling it to check.

When I had the differential out I got a good look at the subframe, mounts, control arms, etc. Rust and mileage made me decide not to invest in another differential. Time to save the cash for a deposit.