Control arm install help

[TDot]

I have spc adjustable control arms. I installed them years ago and now I'm swapping out the bushings. Speaking to the techs there they said I have to tighten the arms down in the position they would be with the cars load on them (which I didn't do when I first installed them). The problem is the car is lowered so there is no way to get to the bolts without the car jacked up (I have about 1cm between the fender and wheel which I leads to another question). He said I have to do it this way because they are double bond rubber bushing and something about them twisting if I tighten them in the air and then put the car down. He says this goes for all control arms with this type of bushing.

So my question is, how do I go about marking/figuring out the position of the control arm with the car load on it with the car jacked up and the wheel off?????????

Also, about my fender wheel clearance. My car is lowered, this seems to be the final settle point and I'm not too happy about it. I'm not going on the hunt for a different spring or coil over, does anyone know a good/reliable strut mount spacer for an m35X? I'm lookinf for maybe another cm or two, not sure right now.

[VStar650CL]

Jack the car, pull both wheels, and let the car down on jackstands under the knuckles. Since you're not on a lift, keep another pair of stands positioned under the chassis flanges as a safety in case something slips (and of course chock the front wheels). Safety first.

[TDot]

Yeah, I already thought about that, but I don't know at what point to stop letting the car down to where the arm would be in resting position under the car's load.

What I was thinking of doing was to jack the car up, and then put another jack under the lower control arm/knuckle and jack that up to the point where I know the wheel rests under the fender and then take the wheel off and tighten the control arm. But I was concerned about safety with that...I don't know what could happen, but just seems unsafe to do it that way to me for some reason. So just hoping there is some other way.

Edit: Is there some type of device, tool, throw away thing that I could maybe sit on top of the control arm and when I lower the car and the control arm goes up, it compresses that "thing" against the top of the fender, so when I jack the car back up and remove the wheel I can use the new height of the "thing" to see where the control arm should be under load to tighten it. The "thing" would have to be able to strap/stick/balance on the control arm on it's own while being lowered...not fall off. Just a thought.

[VStar650CL]

Yeah, I already thought about that, but I don't know at what point to stop letting the car down to where the arm would be in resting position under the car's load.

You want the full weight of the car on it, there's no "stopping point". The car weighs what it weighs.

What I was thinking of doing was to jack the car up, and then put another jack under the lower control arm/knuckle and jack that up to the point where I know the wheel rests under the fender and then take the wheel off and tighten the control arm. But I was concerned about safety with that...I don't know what could happen, but just seems unsafe to do it that way to me for some reason. So just hoping there is some other way.

That works too, but you're correct that taking up one wheel at a time isn't particularly safe. It also won't be particularly accurate, the angle will change the load on the spring. Doing both wheels at once is both safer and better.

Edit: Is there some type of device, tool, throw away thing that I could maybe sit on top of the control arm and when I lower the car and the control arm goes up, it compresses that "thing" against the top of the fender, so when I jack the car back up and remove the wheel I can use the new height of the "thing" to see where the control arm should be under load to tighten it. The "thing" would have to be able to strap/stick/balance on the control arm on it's own while being lowered...not fall off. Just a thought.

Not that I've ever seen.

[TDot]

You want the full weight of the car on it, there's no "stopping point". The car weighs what it weighs.

The stopping point is based on the compression of the spring/strut, that would be the resting point/angle of the arm...as far as I'm playing it out in my head at least, so correct me if I'm wrong.

but you're correct that taking up one wheel at a time isn't particularly safe.

No, I wouldn't raise the entire front one wheel at a time. I would do one side, put it down, then do the other side....do you think it would still be unsafe?

It also won't be particularly accurate, the angle will change the load on the spring.

I don't understand, can you clarify?

[VStar650CL]

The stopping point is based on the compression of the spring/strut, that would be the resting point/angle of the arm...as far as I'm playing it out in my head at least, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you need to "tell" the car how high to sit when it's parked at the curb? Of course not. You want the arms in that same position, neutral and laden.

No, I wouldn't raise the entire front one wheel at a time. I would do one side, put it down, then do the other side....do you think it would still be unsafe?

I don't understand, can you clarify?

When you take one wheel up, the force from the sway bars (which are basically just giant torsion springs) affect the force from the coil spring, trying to correct the orientation of the chassis just like hitting a bump. You're correct that doing one wheel at a time is safer because the car won't be as prone to go sideways on the jacks, but unless you detach one of the sway bar links at each end, it definitely won't put the arm bushings in the same spot as doing both wheels at once.

[TDot]

Got you OK, so

1/ raise the car up from the front center.
2/ Take off both wheels and put a jack under the front control arm (I don't really see how to safely put it under the knuckle, let me know if I'm wrong for this)
3/ Put another set of jacks under the "usual" jack points for safety.
4/ Lower the car to rest on the jacks under the control arms and then tighten up the control arms.

Sound right?

[VStar650CL]

Yep. With the tires removed, you can get directly underneath the ball joint on most cars, which is directly beneath the knuckle. That's what I meant. My description should have been clearer, sorry.

[TDot]

OK..I definitely wouldn't have put the jack on the ball joint...doesn't really seem like something to hold the weight of the car, but I guess it is from what you're saying.

As far as the strut mount spacers go (to go between the top of the strut and the underside of the fender). I found two, one polyurethane and one aluminum. I don't know which to get so input would be appreciated.
1/ With the poly I'm thinking it flexes...even slightly...the sides will bulge and the load part will compress, so that brings up and down wiggle/spacing with the securing nuts of the strut when the car hits a bump which I can't imagine will be good (maybe I can mitigate this by jacking up the wheel to force a compression and then tightening it?). And over time the poly could possibly wear down/out?
2/ With the aluminum that is more metal on metal which can bring rattling. The thought of a metal sandwich with the finder--spacer--strut top doesn't sound great.

Which way should I go?

[VStar650CL]

The lower joints do hold the whole weight of the car. Constantly, anytime the wheels are on the ground. So they're probably the stoutest single part on the whole vehicle, Grade Gazillion alloy steel with a zero-clearance socket. I guarantee you the joint itself is way stronger than the arm it's wedded to.

Can't help you a lot with specific spacers, we rarely get into aftermarket sus mods at the dealership. However, I will say, the top of a strut living in a tight, healthy front end has near-zero side loading, so while you may get the tiniest bit of squish from the poly version, wiggle isn't really a consideration. Speaking for myself, I think I'd be equally comfortable with plastic or metal.

[midnightclub619]

Hey TDot. I also have the same control arms that I installed years ago and I have never replaced any bushings yet. What symptoms are you having that you have to change them out? Just curious since I'm still on the original bushings.

[TDot]

Hey TDot. I also have the same control arms that I installed years ago and I have never replaced any bushings yet. What symptoms are you having that you have to change them out? Just curious since I'm still on the original bushings.

I didn't install it properly the first time around by tightening under load. So it evidently twisted upon lowering it and eventually separated in the rubber causing the arm to slide back and forth.

I'm having a problem separating the ball joint stem from the knuckle. I have this tool (pic attached) but it feels like I'm going to have to tighten this down so much that I'm going to end up squeezing the bolt holes a little since this is aluminum and not steel. The holes are already a very tight fit. Anyone have experience removing it this way and know if I can POSSIBLY end up doing that?

[VStar650CL]

From the look of things that boot is already ripped, so you might as well use a hammer and fork. That knuckle isn't exactly aluminum, it's alloy. I doubt you can distort the holes with much short of a hydraulic press.

[TDot]

That knuckle isn't exactly aluminum, it's alloy. I doubt you can distort the holes with much short of a hydraulic press.

That's what I was thinking, but the pinch bolt through the knuckle was initially seized so I used a pry bar open it up a little and chipped off and distorted the edges of the pinch area a little, that's what raised my concern of compressing in the holes at all. So when I tried compressing it, it got to the point where I was beginning to use my full strength and it wasn't budging and I was worried to go any further with my Hurculian strength.

I already tried a fork, it wasn't budging. But it was relatively short so I plan on going to home depot to get a pipe so I can extend the fork for some leverage.

What do you mean by using a hammer?...I don't see how in this situation. If you mean put something under the peg and hit it with the hammer, I've tried that, there is not enough space for to swing with enough force for a good hit.

[VStar650CL]

No, you hit the fork with a hammer. Ball joint forks are meant for impact, not prying. In the shop we generally use an air hammer with a fork attachment.

[TDot]

OK, you mean the hammer to wedge the fork in. That's not possible with these ball joints. I haven't seen a fork that is thick enough to wedge in tightly to need a hammer...too much space. That's why I simply took the fattest fork I could find and was trying to pry it up.

[VStar650CL]

Sounds like you need one that has a narrower opening and not a thicker body. They make pickle forks down to 11/16" for tie rods and such.

[TDot]

so the purpose of this is to use the hammer to wedge the stem of the ball joints between the prongs of the fork and lift/pry it out INSTEAD of wedging the fork between the ball joint and knuckle and prying it out? That doesn't seem like it should work better to me, but you are more of an expert so I'll give it a go.

[VStar650CL]

I'm not sure what the distinction is. When you drive the fork in with the tines spanning the shaft, it's naturally wedging itself between the ball and whatever the shaft is attached to. The only problem with that is when you're trying to save the ball, because the fork almost invariably f#[ks up the rubber boot.

[TDot]

The fork I was using was the right size, but you were right, I did have to hammer it in more. It seems I was barely in and it wasn't doing its job at all. As soon as I started hammering it in it started separating with little to no effort. Then I put in a little leverage at the end and pried the last bit apart. Thanks.

[VStar650CL]