Constantly warping rotors?

[EniGmA1987]

I know over the past 4 years I have been here I have seen a good number of discussions on rotors and what to get and how to stop them from warping. I myself have had problems from day 3 of owning the car with this problem. Been through 3 different brands of rotors and about to move onto my 4th brand now, and I know many other here have had this same issue. This time I decided to try out EBC since they are one of the few companies I haven't seen anyone report on yet with this car. I tried emailing the EBC sales team to get their opinion on what rotor I should try and after explaining my situation, this is what I got in response:

Hello Mike,

I am not sure if the sales team have replied to you, what I would suggest to you, is none of the options you have given us..

I would keep whatever rotors you have on there and go to a Procut shop and get your car "Procutted" you will most probably never have this issue again. Cast iron, can't physically warp, the vibration is caused by your cars geometry. A number of manufacturers Pro cut their cars at the end of the production line.. Therefore you will never get this issue on a new vehicle..

Look at this link:-

http://ebcbrakes.com/articles/pro-cut-lathe/

And also

http://procutusa.com

I hope this helps and saves you some cash in the future..

James


With Kind Regards
James Hallett
Vice President
EBC Brakes USA Inc.
http://www.ebcbrakes.com
http://www.efiltd.co.uk

An interesting concept in my opinion, and one I had not heard of before. I have always heard about rotors warping and I got this idea from other people who told me that was the issue. Most likely they were told by someone, who was probably told by someone, etc. But none of us are really brake experts are we? Perhaps this notion of rotor warping is really just one of many things that have been going on for a long time in people's minds that isn't really true. I think it is pretty interesting when a company comes out and says "well buying our rotor wont fix your issue, keep your other brand and try this out", and especially when it is the vice president of the company who personally replies with that idea. What do you all think on the matter?

I am thinking in the next couple weeks of taking his advice and going to a procut shop to get my car done. Once I do I will update on first impression feelings and then update again a month later on if the issue has come back or not.

[atlM35]

Something you can try for free:

Try bedding in your brakes again.
Find an open stretch of road. Accelerate to 60mpg then slam on your brakes until you are almost to a complete stop (around 5mph).
Repeat a few more times and drive then around without stopping to give your brakes time to cool off.

[EniGmA1987]

Something you can try for free:

Try bedding in your brakes again.
Find an open stretch of road. Accelerate to 60mpg then slam on your brakes until you are almost to a complete stop (around 5mph).
Repeat a few more times and drive then around without stopping to give your brakes time to cool off.

I do stuff like that at least a few times a week. Sometimes from about 110mph down to low speeds for a few minutes.

[CPJ LB]

Just curious, how are the rest of your braking/suspension/steering parts?? inner/outer tie rods, links, calipers(do they stick), brake fluid changed? I know if there are "loose" parts within the steering/suspension/braking area then it will drastically effect the stopping power/efficiency - thus the rotors get the short end of the stick...

just throwing it out there....


anyway, I went with the brakemotive set in the past and now have the stoptech w/ Akebono pads...really good set up for me. I had a set of EBC's on my old beemer and they held up pretty good.

Let us know how the EBC's are with the M....

[svard75]

I've been told something interesting. You know why cab drivers don't go through roots as much? Because when they brake it's hard and short without lifting off. Plan your distances carefully (this is what took me the longest to relearn). I was always told to brake slowly but slow braking causes extreme heat which causes unnecessary heat. I do agree with what EBC said as well but I went through the DBA rotors quite quickly not because of installation issues but my braking habits.

[atlM35]

Just curious, how are the rest of your braking/suspension/steering parts?? inner/outer tie rods, links, calipers(do they stick), brake fluid changed? I know if there are "loose" parts within the steering/suspension/braking area then it will drastically effect the stopping power/efficiency - thus the rotors get the short end of the stick:

Good point. One of my 35s had a worn front strut that caused vibration when braking on the freeway. Found out after going through two pairs of rotor replacements.

[fat3oy]

I'd go with brakemotive drilled/slotted rotors, keep them cool... get your pads replaced with something that can handle high heat like Hawk... Do the pads yourself and lube the s*** out of the caliper rods with ceramic brake assembly lube. Problem solved guaranteed.

[TDot]

I got r1 concepts e line cross drilled line two years ago and I have no problems at all and I drive hard...I can smell my brakes after a run most of the time lol.

[EniGmA1987]

I've been told something interesting. You know why cab drivers don't go through roots as much? Because when they brake it's hard and short without lifting off.

I do "short brakes" too, usually somewhat hard and never let off. I cant stand people who slowly brake for over a thousand feet.

I'd go with brakemotive drilled/slotted rotors, keep them cool... get your pads replaced with something that can handle high heat like Hawk... Do the pads yourself and lube the s*** out of the caliper rods with ceramic brake assembly lube. Problem solved guaranteed.

Brakemotive is on there now. Didn't like the stock pads so used Hawk performance Ceramics. This too has the problem. Rotors felt like they got warped after 3 weeks or so.




Ill have to have someone check the tie rods, links, and struts to see their condition. No one ever mentions anything about them during an inspection though. Calipers work fine still and had brake fluid changed not too long ago.

[fat3oy]

Brakemotive is on there now. Didn't like the stock pads so used Hawk performance Ceramics. This too has the problem.

[m4m]

Here is another option: I have read great things about the Frozen Rotors, but not sure if you want to spend close to $600 for a set...

[EniGmA1987]

Just thought I would update this, I got some new rotors on in the middle of October (EBC Ultimax) and they have not yet warped like all the others I have tried. This is the longest any set has lasted so far for me, which is almost 3 months. Ill be sticking to these higher end EBC rotors from now on. I did not do the brake lathe after all.

[seldomseen]

Warping rotors has been a common problem with Infiniti OEM rotors. Just replace your rotors with a quality set of aftermarket replacements. The rotors that Infiniti uses are low quality and have a short-life threshold which causes the rotors to weaken and warp after what seems to be a very limited number of miles despite non-aggressive driving/braking.

[Island_Slave]

As has already been mentioned the rotors themselves cannot warp. The issue is basically a non uniform distribution of braking material on the surface. The longer you run them, the more build up you get on the high spots so the problem gets worse. I replaced my stock rotors and pads at ~30k Miles with new Brakemotive rotors and Hawk HPS pads. The problem returned maybe 20K later. I then took the car into a local shop that had a Procut lathe as described in the EBC email. This cured the problem (or so I thought) and the car was perfect after that. But then another 25K later and it is shaking again. I need new rear pads soon so I think I will get them to re Procut the rotors again at that point.

On a side note, I researched this a little bit and on another Infiniti (FX I think) the issue was being attributed to the wheel bearing Carrier itselfhow-do-you-diagnose-wheel-bearing-noise-t468291.html being the weak link. Apparently the backing plate is not strong enough and can distort. This explains why the Procut lathe is able to correct for this on the car. I think this part is a weak link and Infiniti should have addressed the issue long ago.

[svard75]

As has already been mentioned the rotors themselves cannot warp. The issue is basically a non uniform distribution of braking material on the surface. The longer you run them, the more build up you get on the high spots so the problem gets worse. I replaced my stock rotors and pads at ~30k Miles with new Brakemotive rotors and Hawk HPS pads. The problem returned maybe 20K later. I then took the car into a local shop that had a Procut lathe as described in the EBC email. This cured the problem (or so I thought) and the car was perfect after that. But then another 25K later and it is shaking again. I need new rear pads soon so I think I will get them to re Procut the rotors again at that point.

On a side note, I researched this a little bit and on another Infiniti (FX I think) the issue was being attributed to the wheel bearing Carrier itselfhow-do-you-diagnose-wheel-bearing-noise-t468291.html being the weak link. Apparently the backing plate is not strong enough and can distort. This explains why the Procut lathe is able to correct for this on the car. I think this part is a weak link and Infiniti should have addressed the issue long ago.

Hang on a sec. If this is the case then why is there a minimum amount that rotors can be refinished? Each time they refinish in order to obtain a uniform finish you need to take some of the disk surface off. In my experience I think it's actually the pads that dig into the disk. You are correct the rotors themselves don't warp per se it's the uneven surface that causes the pads to vibrate.

[Island_Slave]

As has already been mentioned the rotors themselves cannot warp. The issue is basically a non uniform distribution of braking material on the surface. The longer you run them, the more build up you get on the high spots so the problem gets worse. I replaced my stock rotors and pads at ~30k Miles with new Brakemotive rotors and Hawk HPS pads. The problem returned maybe 20K later. I then took the car into a local shop that had a Procut lathe as described in the EBC email. This cured the problem (or so I thought) and the car was perfect after that. But then another 25K later and it is shaking again. I need new rear pads soon so I think I will get them to re Procut the rotors again at that point.

On a side note, I researched this a little bit and on another Infiniti (FX I think) the issue was being attributed to the wheel bearing Carrier itselfhow-do-you-diagnose-wheel-bearing-noise-t468291.html being the weak link. Apparently the backing plate is not strong enough and can distort. This explains why the Procut lathe is able to correct for this on the car. I think this part is a weak link and Infiniti should have addressed the issue long ago.

Hang on a sec. If this is the case then why is there a minimum amount that rotors can be refinished? Each time they refinish in order to obtain a uniform finish you need to take some of the disk surface off. In my experience I think it's actually the pads that dig into the disk. You are correct the rotors themselves don't warp per se it's the uneven surface that causes the pads to vibrate.

Give this a read. http://www.stoptech.com/technical-suppo ... ther-myths The article goes into detail about what is happening and why. Alas I followed the bedding instructions from Hawk which approximates the one described in this article and I am still right back to where I was 2 years ago.

[svard75]

I found a few other reputable articles that state the same thing. Still it is interesting that manufactures stamp a min thickness on the rotor. Technically if it was simply the pad material deposited onto the disk there should never be any disk material removed during the lathe process. One interesting thing in a MOSS article I read regarding this they state the obvious which I didn't really think about. The softer material of the two (Disk vs pad) will always wear before the harder material.

The last time I performed a brake service on my M I ensured the HAT to HUB surface was scrubbed with a steel brush and I torqued the wheel bolts to spec and evenly in a star pattern. I also ensured the caliper sliders were working well. It's been about 1.5 years since and no vibration. So it's quite possible that this part of a brake service is likely much more important than the materials used in either pad or disc.

[EniGmA1987]

Searching for something on an old post of mine I re-found my thread here. I would just like to say that I believe rotors DO warp, despite what any "scientific explanation" says otherwise on the matter. I know plenty of times when people get the science wrong and I believe this is one of those times. In many cases the cause of vibration during braking could actually be caused by bade pad deposits on the rotor or other things such as the hub not rotating completely straight, but my Brakemotive rotors most definitely warped. They had/have multiple discolored spots all over the rotor from the way the rotor has heated up under stress and when you run your fingers over the rotor surface you can feel that it is wavy. I suppose the wavy feeling *could* be brake pad deposits, but it sure doesnt look like there are any deposits on the rotor, just the metal. Besides, lots of people say if you drive agressively and do some hard stops it should clean off any deposits on the rotors because those deposits get scraped off. I know I definitely drive hard enough at times to scrape off any deposits on there.

My science says: metal can bend. The thicker the metal the harder it is but with enough force it can be done. Hot metal can be bent easier. This is done all the time in manufacturing and even way back in ancient times blacksmiths took iron and heated it up and then hammered it into a different shape, so yes metal does bend and warp especially when hot. Brake rotors do get hot, very hot. In extreme cases (like how I drive) they can get red hot, I have seen them faintly glowing after a drive a few times. I have had my brake fluid boil before (boils at 600 degrees or so). I can frequently see heat wave distortion coming off the rotors. Brake calipers exert large amount of pressure in a small area on the rotor, large pressure + high heat + malleable object = object gets warped.

When I took my rear brake rotors off and laid a razor blade on them the blade wouldn't sit flat, I could see light under certain area, all over the rotor. I didn't feel like going more in depth on calculating the stuff but if a perfectly flat blade shows light shining through and my fingers can feel the uneven metal surface then in my opinion the rotor is in fact warped.

[Double E]

I tried the Frozen Rotors route awhile back. No joy. They warped on me as quick as anything else. I still have them just to remind myself that it is not always about cost = performance.

I've had the most success with EBC slotted & dimpled & redstuff pads. I'm getting the inexpensive Brakemotive setup on Wednesday and will install in a few weeks.

Will report back.

[kmiles]

I've warped rotors twice, but not on my Infiniti. Both times came from braking while descending high mountain passes with lots of hairpin turns. In both cases it was a very hot day and the warping was very apparent the same day. In both of those cases turning the rotors solved the problem.

I installed the Brakemotive kit about 2.5 years ago - no warping at all. Great brakes - especially in the rain. The OEM brakes were always a bit scary the first time you hit them after driving about an hour in heavy rain - they always stopped the car, but not without a little bit of drama.