Constant Uphill Battle: Chassis Balance Correction

[Tyrell Corporation]

For those of us not shined upon with endless amounts of capital (I miss sponsors), performance upgrades are usually a step-by-step process. Suspension, then brakes, then rims, then brakes, then power/trans/LSD, etc. So, the question I would like to know, is how do you stay on top of your quest towards a neutral balance?

My first project was a hot rod. Back in '92, my 1970 Torino was a bad mawfukka for the drifting fanatic in me. Surprisingly, being a 4dr, it wasn't the most difficult vehicle to dial in. I stayed with a small block, 302 all motor at approximately 350hp to the wheels...650cfm Edelbrock carb, Performer intake, aggressive cam, 11:1 compression heads, etc. Balancing act regulated via air ride suspension and monster meats for rubber. For a 3600lb vehicle, it was amazingly easy to drift! Maybe this was the key?

I became increasingly interested in road course racing, so I went to FWD...[skip]

So, here I am again, back at building a RWD. I have no experience with an S14, so I'd like to ask all of you how your compensatory balancing ensues.

How do you attack your ever-changing vehicular balance?

[/drunk post]

[Enlefo]

Most people suggest saving up and then replacing entire systems at once. I have been piecing things together. If I had to do it over... I would probably try and do whole systems at a time.For example suspension if you put coil overs on there you're gonna need toe arms and upper camber arms as well just to be able to get an alignment. Then your back end should behave pretty well (with some subframe spaces or new bushings those things suck when worn down) However the rear multilink is all in all a better design then the front suspension... so if you just do that upgrade your front end will suck in comparison. So you'll want tie rods and tension rods to stiffen it up and get rid of the horrid grease filled boots on both of those. Then maybe a power brace to really stiffen it up, strut and sway bars of course.I dunno if any of this was helpful... just a bit of rambling about my own s14 suspension build. If I had done all that stuff in one go... or even two... I wouldn't have had to waste so much money on getting my alignment done every time I upgraded something.

[onosqv]

Most people suggest saving up and then replacing entire systems at once.

Actually, I'd like to disagree, as I've done both (started with entire system changes, then went to another stock car & did little - relatively - chunks at a time).

With entire system changes, you aren't exactly sure what's helping & hurting you & whether or not you really need or want something - this is especially important if you are planning on competing in a certain class, etc.

Furthermore, smaller changes allow you to really feel how the newly added part has affected your car as a whole.

That being said, Tyrell Corporation, you've built a fwd for road racing already, that should have given you an idea of what you feel is priority - though fwd & rwd are very different, building them up is pretty similar as you've pointed out:

Tires/Suspension first, Differential a close second (some feel this may be first, depending on how well your suspension is holding up), then power.

Within suspension, coilovers seem to be the way to go these days, especially since the cost of a decent coilover set isn't much more than a spring/shock combo.

Enlefo said "you're gonna need toe arms and upper camber arms", etc - however, I think it's more of a you "should" than you "need". I run local events w/ several 240's and we have guys running every suspension setup from completely stock, to fully prepped (like me), to just coilovers (stock arms & all), and for the most part the cars still behave the way they should.

Having all your arms in @ once along w/ your coilovers would be great - especially since you don't have to get more than one alignment.. however, most budgets don't allow this, so you do what you can.

Whether or not you upgrade parts, you usually end up getting several alignments before you find a setting you personally like anyway.

You can also just do what I do & buy your parts when you can, but only install after you have a certain amount of parts in.

Power is fun, but power can usually wait a while.

I believe there a a bagillion 'build threads' on this forum & other 240 forums, but for the most part it seems like most ppl like to have their car fully built before running the track - to each his own.

[Tyrell Corporation]

You can also just do what I do & buy your parts when you can, but only install after you have a certain amount of parts in.

This is exactly what I do. I generally concentrate on a particular area, then install when I feel the time is right. There is no way I could restrain myself until I had EVERY part...plus, brokeAs240sx is absolutely right about problems being monumentally easier to diagnose when upgrading step-by-step.

Unfortunately, I'm new to Nissan, so I'm going to have to learn all new aftermarket companies/distributors. Not that it'll be that difficult, but I'm not going to all 'top-shelf' dealers, either. I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for, but, at the same time, I also know that there are parts that are just as quality (sometimes better) as those top names...sometimes, you really are just paying for a name. So, yeah, I've got to learn the ropes in terms of what companies...

I like how I listed brakes twice...damn that was good rum.

[Enlefo]

Actually, I'd like to disagree, as I've done both (started with entire system changes, then went to another stock car & did little - relatively - chunks at a time).

With entire system changes, you aren't exactly sure what's helping & hurting you & whether or not you really need or want something - this is especially important if you are planning on competing in a certain class, etc.

Furthermore, smaller changes allow you to really feel how the newly added part has affected your car as a whole.

Hey, I did it that way too. I figured out my rear shocks were going out and I bought coils... my brakes went to **** and I upgraded to 300z brakes... but my point was... it is smarter to figure out what an entire system needs before you start throwing on upgrades or you can screw things up. I'm sure you know what I mean. The next thing is a perfect example.

Enlefo said "you're gonna need toe arms and upper camber arms", etc - however, I think it's more of a you "should" than you "need". I run local events w/ several 240's and we have guys running every suspension setup from completely stock, to fully prepped (like me), to just coilovers (stock arms & all), and for the most part the cars still behave the way they should.

Having all your arms in @ once along w/ your coilovers would be great - especially since you don't have to get more than one alignment.. however, most budgets don't allow this, so you do what you can.

Well, at least in the case of the s14 if you lower the car even a little (I am like -1.4, -1.2 IIRC) you will not be able to put the car in a proper alignment in the rear. Your toe will be off as will your camber. While those are things you may want to be more aggressive with at the track. If you care enough to track tune you car you will need adjustable arms anyway. You'll sure wear down tires fast though... having all the traction on the inside edge with both tires pointed inward.

[onosqv]

Of course, ideally, our cars would start out w/ everything ready to track - we all know that hardly ever happens, haha. I actually hit a point where I think I have too many suspension upgrades (is that even possible).

[Enlefo]

Yeah... lol... with all the **** I have now my ride is pretty bumpy... EDFC helps out a bit but you should certainly think about how far you really wanna take it before you start throwing metal bushings onto everything.

[Tyrell Corporation]

LOL

Metal bushings are HORRIBLE unless the car is track ONLY! There are the 50/50 alternatives, which I would consider (and am considering) for my daily drifter. Have either of you an opinion on the steering assembly metal bushing replacement? This might be the only one I would try, simply because I like to be able to 'feel' the road through my steering...and a tighter steering response is always good.

I'm even hesitant to use the solid motor mount bushings (not metal, but still solid!)

I see that you have an S14, Enlefo. So you use aftermarket tension & traction rods, rear toe & camber, and sway bar replacements? What, precisely, did you use (manufacturers)?

[Enlefo]

I've got SPL tension rods and outer tie rods... I have the Tein 350z inner tie rods. SPL tie rod ends use 300z or 350z inner rods... they are much bulkier. The metal on your steering wrack is pretty sweet. Great precision and control, but transfers more vibration into the car then any other suspension mod I've done. Also, driving requires much more constant correction. The tension rods also use oil/graphite filled boots and at 13 year old I'm sure they're cracking if not leaking. The metal replacement on these makes a world of difference... I put them in at the same time as my Nismo power brace. So I can't really say which piece stiffened things up more but the two of them together made a world of difference in the front end. I used peak performance upper camber arms and toe rods. They are awesome.FSTB and RSTB I have are crappy ebay brand that I plan to replace. Greddy makes a really solid looking bar for $120 a piece. They are triple tube steel. A lot of places make 200-300 bars but they all look about the same as the greddy... but why? Unless you have a show car and you NEED a grand in carbon fiber strut bars.Sway bars I have are stock... I am planning on replacing them shortly... probably with progress. I made a thread for people to discuss sway bars and end links zerothread?id=325232 Progress sway bars are like 215 at touge factory and come with metal end links and poly bushings.I am really happy with the way my car handles in the hills... last couple times I took it out my criticisms were that the steering could be a little crisper and that body roll was to much. Since then I did my tie rods, which has definantly firmed up the steering. Gonna relocate my battery this weekend, put in my racing seat when I get the rails this week and buy some sways when I get the money. I think it will be pretty dialed in at that point.I would HIGHLY recommend SPL. There stuff is not cheap but it is sooo beefy and well designed... just check out there page... you can see how much R&D they have put into our cars. Hope you can glean some good info from my rambling ;-)