Console vs PC markets (split from MW2)

[MinisterofDOOM]

Activision just sh1t on the PC crowd. They can canceled the Hardened Edition for us. I'm actually officially pissed. First EA and DICE turn their back on the genre's roots and haven't released a new Battlefield game since 2142 was out. I know we're supposed to get 1943, but knowing EA, that could be months down the road. Plus BF Heroes was kinda meh.

Now you know why I hate consoles. I'm sick of developers dumbing down games and then shifting them to consoles, completely forgetting about the PC. PC > EVERYTHING for shooters. There is no argument against this that holds up under scrutiny.

Even VALVE dumbed down HL2 Ep2 for consoles with auto-duck and separate flashlight battery. What does that tell you about what developers and publishers think of console gamers? Pretty embarrassing.

[marlin29311]

Now you know why I hate consoles. I'm sick of developers dumbing down games and then shifting them to consoles, completely forgetting about the PC. PC > EVERYTHING for shooters. There is no argument against this that holds up under scrutiny.

Even VALVE dumbed down HL2 Ep2 for consoles with auto-duck and separate flashlight battery. What does that tell you about what developers and publishers think of console gamers? Pretty embarrassing.

The console market is like 2348720389473 times better to market towards...seriously, it's less expensive for the consumer, and it's easier for the developer to make a game that's consistent across all boards. Not everyone has a $2000 rig to run Crysis...it's much easier for mommy to go buy little Johnny a $200 Xbox than it is for mommy to figure out what video card, processor, amount of ram, RAID? or SCSI?...and all that stuff on a computer...

Unfortunatly, for the PC guys, you're losing because of marketing. There's much more money in making a console game than PC...

But I agree with the dumbing down...seriously, just make the game how it should be. AND LET ME DEFINE MY CONTROL SCHEME.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Oh, I don't disagree that the console market is more appealing in a lot of ways. I just find it irritating that it has created so much division in the industry. Not exactly ideal for us as consumers.

But it doesn't take a $2000 PC to run Crysis at all. I bought a store-shelf (didn't even build my own for dirt) that runs Crysis maxed out for $1300...could easily do it for less. When I bought my Elite with accessories and 2 games 2 years ago it cost me over half that. You could easily get a capable gaming PC for ~$700-$900 and it does more than a console. PCs aren't all that pricey compared to consoles anymore. Costs for PCs are dropping while console prices (thanks, Sony) are climbing (relatively). Really, the playing field SHOULD be equal these days were tech is somewhat even.

EDIT:For everyone concerned about going off-topic, I'm going to split this discussion off in a bit. Just don't have the time at the moment...had to cut this post short as it is.

[marlin29311]

That pretty much sums up how I feel - well said Nali.

I always wanted to get into PC gaming, but I just never could...never really had the excess cash to spend on a unit that I could game with....honestly, these guys that spend 2-3 grand on a system alone, I could get a 360 and then just buy a new 46" LED LCD TV and have an amazing system setup (hell i could probably get a decent 5.1 system in there too....)

To me it just makes no monetary sense....

Plus - I can sell my games back to gamestop when I'm done playing them...can't sell a PC game back...I know its not much, but $15 here and there adds up to a new game eventually....

[RCA]

Nali you can DL Xbox and Xbox360 games to.I haven't seen any PS3 yet but if I knew how I would DL Xbox games.

[Nali]

Nali you can DL Xbox and Xbox360 games to.I haven't seen any PS3 yet but if I knew how I would DL Xbox games.

Shhhhhhh!!, dont tell anaabaadaay!!!

The reason PS3 games arent up is cuz, hackers are still trying to crack the BluRay protection its pretty deep. 360 uses the same old DVD protection from back in yesteryear so copying is simple, but again, dont tell anybody

[RCA]

Yea thats what I assumed...

[MinisterofDOOM]

The thread was about developers jumping ship for consoles after having established themselves as valid developers through PC sales.

The example given was DICE, who established themselves as a big-name developer with BF 1942 and BFV on the PC. Then they turned around and released a bunch of console exclusives and ports dumbed down for consoles. Then they followed that up by delaying the PC release of BF1943 but justifying it with the mediocre TF2 ripoff BF:Heroes which is PC only.

I went on to rant about how Valve actually included auto-duck in HL2 Ep2 after 5 iterations of HL gameplay with no such feature. They also split off the suit power for the flashlight. Both of these coincided with the series' big console release...which basically says consoles are to blame. And neither feature can be turned off, so now I'm stuck with super easy mode all because Valve apparently things console gamers are morons (and, not including present company, they largely are...bunch of beer chugging frat boys who pull out the 360 and slap each other's asses while trying to feel manly).

Which all brought my mind back to my old rant about idiot console gamers in the "easy" market (consoles) lowering standards across the board and having a negative impact on the entire industry. Everything's so bland anymore, and it's because all it takes is marketing to make something successful. The frat boys all like what's cool, so you don't even have to bother making a decent game anymore. Just market it well. Halo, Bioshock, GOW...none are BAD games but they're nothing special either...but the Frat boys sure think otherwise. But compare bioshock (which is so lauded) with System Shock 2, it's PC predecessor, and it's like bumper cars up against a Ferrari.

And I'm not talking about "hardcore" gamers like me and perhaps you (not sure if you consider yourself in that category or not) but the casual ones. Like my friends who buy up every bargain bin POS game there is and rave about how awesome it is, helping lower the standards still further.

I'm just sick of game standards being so low, and as far as I can tell it's consoles that are to blame due to (what may have otherwise been a benefit) the fact that they've made gaming so accessible and open to everyone. Wasn't an issue back when PCs were lightyears ahead and the two were separate. But in these days of crappy ports and comparable technology.

Which is why I so often comment on how much I miss the days when gaming was nerdy, uncool, and obscure. Standards were higher because they had to be.

Of course this might not be coming across completely coherently and undoubtedly is condescending...but I simply miss the "good old days" of gaming which don't look to be coming back any time soon.

[marlin29311]

I'm just sick of game standards being so low, and as far as I can tell it's consoles that are to blame due to (what may have otherwise been a benefit) the fact that they've made gaming so accessible and open to everyone. Wasn't an issue back when PCs were lightyears ahead and the two were separate. But in these days of crappy ports and comparable technology.

Actually it has nothing to do with consoles. It has to do with greed a profit. Games on the PC aren't exactly awesome anymore either...

Why not spend less on development and make a game that's almost as good, if the same amount of people are going to buy it? You've saved money, and then retained the same income - presto! Awesome business model! It's the same fate that's shared by almost anything in our economy today - make it cheaper, sell it for the same or more....you save money, and you make more in the end!

Look at appliances - older ones lasted forever, new ones suck. Cars are the same - old ones lasted forever, current ones suck, but people still keep buying them...

The fact is, the reason why games aren't as good anymore is because of the bottom line. Compaines are out to make money for themeselves, not to roll out games so that Chris is happy.

I also think your comment about "frat boys" is a little over the top and pretty much wrong. (I'm not in a fraternity and despise them for the most part, but that's such a wrong statement on so many levels....) You show me your market of "frat boys" and I'll show you the market of 10 year olds that's 10 times as big. Maybe that's why games are dumber - because dumber people are playing them....

[Nali]

Ok well i completely missed the ball then. Ill delete my posts. I thinks the title is what screwed me over.

There isnt much to discuss here.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's cool. I admit I was feeling kind of irritable at work, but I still enjoyed the discussion, even if it was off topic. Hope I didn't piss you off.

Compaines are out to make money for themeselves, not to roll out games so that Chris is happy.

The GOOD companies DO make games to make me happy! That's my whole point! The crappy ones (the ones that couldn't have been profitable when gaming was obscure) don't. But the good ones make the games they want to play, which means they don't halfass things because they want to play a halfassed game.

Re-reading this post, I don't think I'm making my point very well because I suck at saying what I mean. Lemme try again:

"Good" developers need no more incentive to make a good game than to want to make a good game. They're gamers at heart, and make games they wish they could play but that don't exist. The others, the ones lowering the bar, are indeed just in it for the money. And I'd like them to go to Hell.

[OldmanPurdy]

Its a sad state when you walk into a gamestop and see a flimsy shelf with around 20 pc games on it then a whole wall with 100's copies of hit games like "Linear Corridor Shooter 7: Now with customizable weapons!!!!!111"

I guess all that can be done it to support the few remaining good pc devs like Relic, ID, and, Valve

[Red coupe]

Not everyone has a $2000 rig to run Crysis

My $800 computer from a couple years ago run Crysis... Just not at max. Computer gamers don't have to spend so much its just that you have the OPTION to.

I seriously hate this argument.

PC gamers spend so much on updates by choice.

Graphics from computer games are better then consoles. And getting better still.

Its just stupid to say you don't have to update consoles, because the graphics don't get significantly better either. You can easily do that on a computer too, just keep playing the new games with out significantly increased graphics for years. Sure you can't play it on high anymore but what ever, like I said I can't play Crysis on high... but I can play it on higher then PS3 graphics.

On top of that I can chose my own balance of eye candy and performance for my hardware by adjusting the settings.

The way I see it its not that you HAVE to upgrade a computer, rather you CAN'T upgrade a console.

Price is stupid too. PC's do so much more then consoles... pretty much every one needs a PC, how many people do you know who bought a console INSTEAD of a computer?

Take the price of a new non gaming computer, add the price of a PS3 and you can easily build a decent gaming comp.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Well said, red coupe.

I guess all that can be done it to support the few remaining good pc devs like Relic, ID, and, Valve

Which is something I intend to do anyway as I look forward to their games. But yes, I take pride in supporting the standouts of the industry.

[positron1]

I'm gonna get a Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3 soon so I can get back into console gaming but if a game that I wants comes out on both the consoles and the PC I'll get the PC version hands down!