Considering buying a 2012

[schuylkill]

So if I can get a ride I want to go check out a 2012 Leaf with 25000 miles on it that is about 96 miles from me. I'm told the range is now 58 miles. Can anyone give me advice on the best way to find charging locations along the route? I have zero knowledge of how charging works. Can you just pay with a credit card? I don't know if this drive is possible but I hope so, I'd like to check out and hopefully buy this car. I will use it mostly for local running around. I have 100% renewable here at home so its something I want to try and feel good about. Supposedly 2012 is a good year for the early models.

[VStar650CL]

If there are Nissan dealers along the way, they'll all have level 2 chargers you can generally use for free.

[schuylkill]

Hey VStar650CL still wrenching? Will the cable that comes with the car work on the level 2 chargers? Enjoy the weekend!

[VStar650CL]

The Level1 that comes with the car and Level2's at the dealerships both use the same charge port connection. It probably doesn't have a CHAdeMO fast-charge port on a '12.

[schuylkill]

It's not the SL model so it doesn't have the fast charge port. There are dealerships along the way and one is about half way and I might just make it on the one charge. Transport would be $400 so if I get it I'm driving it. I called the dealership and they said charging is available 24/7 but I'm guessing there's only one available. The cable is on the charger I was told. If I get close to home and it goes into turtle I'm hoping a friend with a trailer will pick me up.

What things should I check out on the car? It has 25000 miles on it and was in an accident so it has a R title. They say they used genuine parts for the repair. Range is 58 miles on the guess o meter.Would anyone advise against getting an older Leaf for local running around? I can get it for $4000.

[VStar650CL]

It's not really a guessometer, the VCM's are actually pretty good at predicting real-life range. If that's full charge it means the battery has extreme capacity loss, possibly as much as 6 bars (range brand new was a bit over 100 miles). I should warn you that there's generally nothing you can do about that. So unless you have a discount battery source, it could be a really bad investment.

[schuylkill]

Hmmm I was thinking that having 60% of the original capacity after 10 years on a battery that isn't cooled was decent. What would be the average to be expected? I do not currently have a battery source but my thought is that for local use 60 miles works. Shopping around I thought $4000 was a good price these days. I value your input and when you say a really bad investment I have to reconsider. I don't need another car but I would like to do better than the mpg I get with the Quest.

[VStar650CL]

If you're looking to use it for awhile then it might be okay, but you'll need to consider it "disposable" from a future standpoint. Capacity loss is a one-way street (with compound-interest in hot climates or with frequent fast-charging). Studies show normal loss at 2~3% per year, and data seems to indicate that lengthy storage or infrequent use actually harm batteries instead of helping. Here's an interesting article from AutoWeek:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a39713122 ... over-time/

The bottom line is, for a '12 under normal circumstances, it should still be at 67~78% of capacity. Being down that far indicates it wasn't treated well in some fashion, whether it was storage in a hot garage, too much topping up, or any of the other things that gradually kill range. Regardless of the cause, it's likely the battery substrates have significant cracking and that means the degradation rate may accelerate no matter how well you care for it. Once the range gets much below 50, I doubt you'll find a buyer except as a parts car. So you need to either consider it disposable, or don't go there in the first place.

[schuylkill]

I asked the seller for some pics of the display since what info I had was just words. If the three charging indicator lights on top of the dash are all lit does that indicate a full charge? Three were lit and the range was at 44 miles with 8 white bars showing above 2 red. I questioned the 44 miles range and was told "my husband said the range was 58." I had been informed it was 60 miles. I'm going to pass. Thanks for your information.

[VStar650CL]

Details are everything, maybe this will change your mind. The three lights could indicate 80% charge depending how they have the charge cutoff programmed. Eight bars sounds a little optimistic on the part of the LBC/VCM (the range brand new would have been a bit over 100), BUT, the VCM calculates range according to history and driving habits. The owners most likely do a crapload of stop-and-go that limits the range displayed. Eight bars is bad but not terrible. In light of that, to use as a local beater, it probably isn't a bad deal at $2K.

[schuylkill]

But the deal is at $4K!
Thanks for that article. Electrolyte depletion by leaking into cracks in electrodes adding to degradation as a heat related issue is telling. The guy doing that study for two years must have been having wierd dreams after a while. The 2015 Leaf in LA with 90-95% capacity at 55K miles is probably exempletive of what good EV practices from new can do.

[VStar650CL]

But the deal is at $4K!

Memory is the first thing that goes. Think of me as a database with lost keys.

Thanks for that article. Electrolyte depletion by leaking into cracks in electrodes adding to degradation as a heat related issue is telling. The guy doing that study for two years must have been having wierd dreams after a while. The 2015 Leaf in LA with 90-95% capacity at 55K miles is probably exempletive of what good EV practices from new can do.

True, and the early Leafs (Leaves?) didn't exactly have great tech to support good practices. Most of them only had charge timers and not even programmable charge limiting. The chemistry-and-materials end is progressing by giant leaps, though, mostly thanks to Elon. I predict it will get there just about in time to be rendered obsolescent by onboard methane-cracking fuel cells. But, those will still need a battery to get power to the wheels, and voila, they'll have good batteries.

Gotta love how tech evolves. Phone meets printer and the world gets a fax machine. That part really hasn't changed much since Edison or the Wright Brothers.

[schuylkill]

So I have continued to think about this Leaf. I've been casually looking for a Leaf for about two years. I haven't seen one in the area for less than $9000. The asking price is $6000 on this one and they agreed to $4000. It's a couple that has been communicating with me and the "main man" is only at home where the car is on Friday and the weekend. He told me he will charge it when he gets home today and send me details on what he finds. What should I ask concerning the SOH of the HV battery that he could share? I asked if he had Leaf Spy but no reply.

[VStar650CL]

If it's worth $4K then it's worth a trip, I'd take a drive and hook up Leaf Spy myself. The SOH info you get from the Nissan readout isn't very comprehensive, just bars (and you can see those on the dashboard). Leaf Spy will give you charge balance info about all the individual cells and stats about which are highest and lowest. The diff between the lowest and highest is what's meaningful, you shouldn't have a lot of cells lower-than-the-rest with a big difference between high and low. The sheet graph in Leaf Spy should look like the ocean on a calm day, not a porcupine and not Hurricane Sandy.

[schuylkill]

So the asking price went up to $4500. Told them I'm out at that #. I also read that federal tax credits for EVs are in the bill that is close to a vote in the Senate. $4000 for used vehicles is what I saw but no details. I need more information on this it could change my market. Inventory will get tight I imagine.

[BadQ45t]

There is no provision for used cars in that bill, it is just going to give back to the brands that exhausted their credits already like Tesla and I think Toyota also in that boat. Surprisingly Nissan isn't in that boat. I owned a 2011 Leaf from brand new and I can tell you they are great cars but I would advise you to stay away from this one. The range will only get shorter and shorter. Also, if you were to take it up on the freeway the 58 miles will be much shorter. My 2011 would drop like a rock the second you were at 60+ MPH. If you can qualify lease one, they have cheap leases and you still get the state tax credits back, or buy one with a 6 year loan and use your 4k as down payment. But I would pass 100% on that older one with bad battery

[schuylkill]

I passed on the car. Thanks for the options suggestions. I'm probably chilling for awhile on a Leaf. Did find a good resource for info on buying used. It could be a sticky if the author is credited. He encourages dissemination.
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=26662
A member of the site it's posted on developed Leafspy. So what I gathered is not to buy a Leaf manufactured prior to April 2013. Or May to be absolutely sure you get the updated HV battery technology. And then be sure to run Leafspy and in my case find someone that can interpret the results. I get that you don't want wide variation in the graph of the cells and a decent SOH. I don't get how Carvana for example can sell the 2011 and 2012s at the prices they list. And not a mention of the condition of the battery.

[BadQ45t]

I know right, I got $3,800 from CarMax for my car, it really was down to under 50 miles and on freeway it was horrible, probably only 35 miles. That car was nearly useless and I tried to see it for 5k being very honest with people on the what the car could and could not do. I finally offered it to a person off Craig's list for the same money that CarMax offered but he couldn't get his act together and wanted me to meet him which was not happening. So i got $3,800 so they would have to sell for 5500 to 6k to make a profit. If feel sorry for the sucker that bought it but at least they were not able to come back to me to complain